Starvation needs to go away

[Mike Loeven]

So when you loose a match because you run out of cards and encounter starvation it was almost a major quit moment especially because I had enough on the field to win the match in another round or so. The game is already fundamentally challenging and difficult enough on its own without the additional penalty of the starvation mechanic. Even the best players can run out of cards to draw just out of random chance and the simple fact remains that starvation is simply mean spirited and the game should be able to play out fairly with what is left on the field. Mechanically speaking starvation ads nothing of value to the game mechanics and is excessively detrimental to the player given the RNG nature of draws.

[trial_by_fire]

Lol

FaIr?

There is nothing fair about this game. In fact, the whole point of this game is to find a way to cheat the game master and break the game.

[Mike Loeven]

Oh I know when I beat act one I cheesed the 3rd round with a dagger and two pliers XD

[SusBedstain2000]

Starvation is an important it makes it so players cant run out of cards otherwise what would happen when you did?

[Mike Loeven]

perhaps a change where it will not kick in until fielded cards are gone

[RequiemsRose]

As i understand it, starvation is intended to prevent a soft-lock when the player runs out of cards. You can still win when it kicks in though, with the easiest methods including fliers (the starvation cards can't be targeted but they can be bypassed), items, or bum-rushing the damage on the remaining open lanes if any of those options are available to you.

Though I have also encountered a situation of getting softlocked because of starvation and a rather specific card i had at the time (corpse eater and unkillable can be a powerful sigil combo but it also results in a card that will always return to your hand upon death and immediately replay itself. In some fights that can cause a softlock where your undying and perpetually self-playing card can not be prevented from re-entering the battlefield and it can't win on it's own, but starvation can't actually get rid of it to harm you. So neither side can actually win).

[LittleNinja]

I just lost to starvation.
My 40 power card just HAD to be the one that was blocked, and I lost.
I +1 this.

[SorrirBoy]

I almost quit kaycee's mod because of this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
The final boss seems to get better at stalling each time you beat it, making starvation the true final boss instead

[ice]

those without this skill issue have gotten by fine for a long time

[iheartdaikaiju]

I try very hard to not reflexively defend game decisions in games I enjoy on the internet because I have played Paradox games and know what it is like being on your side of the screen. So, even though I have no issue with starvation, I instead I will ask, if you could invent a card whose ability is making you win if the game is softlocked - that is, neither you nor your opponent can make any legal moves - how many points in the card creation machine in part 3 would you say this ability should cost, and how would this card impact your play style? Related question, how many points would a card that did 1 damage to an opponent per starvation card on the battlefield be worth, and how would you play differently with a card like that?

After all this is referencing a real world concept in CCGs like Magic the Gathering where forcing opponents to draw their whole deck is a win condition. And, in those games, there are cards that turn that loss condition into a win condition, for example there are cards that make you win when you "deck yourself". People enjoy that sort of play in paper card games, so I imagine there's people that would enjoy that being added and referenced here.

So, let's be constructive. Let's find a balanced way, together, to get rid of starvation without ruining the game for others that like it being there.

[babuk.fracal]

I dont want to sound rude
But I wouldnt be surprised if people who dislike starvation dont even know the grizzly challenge is a thing in kaycee's mod

[Imperfect Hatred]

Originally posted by Mike Loeven:

perhaps a change where it will not kick in until fielded cards are gone

Card with 0 attack power like Warrens and Beehives: 👁👄👁

[Imperfect Hatred]

Originally posted by RequiemsRose:

As i understand it, starvation is intended to prevent a soft-lock when the player runs out of cards. You can still win when it kicks in though, with the easiest methods including fliers (the starvation cards can't be targeted but they can be bypassed), items, or bum-rushing the damage on the remaining open lanes if any of those options are available to you.

Though I have also encountered a situation of getting softlocked because of starvation and a rather specific card i had at the time (corpse eater and unkillable can be a powerful sigil combo but it also results in a card that will always return to your hand upon death and immediately replay itself. In some fights that can cause a softlock where your undying and perpetually self-playing card can not be prevented from re-entering the battlefield and it can't win on it's own, but starvation can't actually get rid of it to harm you. So neither side can actually win).

You sure about it? You couldn't do anything but press ESC, save and exit? If so, that means that you had a card with Burrower, Corpse Eater, Unkillable, Mighty Leap, Airborne, 1 attack power, and didn't end the run until the 9th Starvation was played. Or had a card with Sharp Quills, Touch of Death, Unkillable, Corpse Eater, Mighty Leap, Airborne, and 1 attack power.

[iheartdaikaiju]

Originally posted by Frozen Slime Block:

You sure about it? You couldn't do anything but press ESC, save and exit? If so, that means that you had a card with Burrower, Corpse Eater, Unkillable, Mighty Leap, Airborne, 1 attack power, and didn't end the run until the 9th Starvation was played. Or had a card with Sharp Quills, Touch of Death, Unkillable, Corpse Eater, Mighty Leap, Airborne, and 1 attack power.

Think the situation through slowly and carefully. The OP was obviously recollecting something that actually happened in a game. We will never know what actually happened. You are using necromancy to revive a thread over half a year old. The person you are replying to probably does not remember the game.

They are remembering a situation that happened, it did result in an eternal game, and I am willing to bet you can come up with something simpler if you are trying to piece together what probably happened.

As a starting point I recommend putting obstacles in the opposing lane and things you can't sacrifice like fleece in your own lanes, so that there is only one available lane with starvation in it.

[RequiemsRose]

Originally posted by iheartdaikaiju:

Originally posted by Frozen Slime Block:

You sure about it? You couldn't do anything but press ESC, save and exit? If so, that means that you had a card with Burrower, Corpse Eater, Unkillable, Mighty Leap, Airborne, 1 attack power, and didn't end the run until the 9th Starvation was played. Or had a card with Sharp Quills, Touch of Death, Unkillable, Corpse Eater, Mighty Leap, Airborne, and 1 attack power.

Think the situation through slowly and carefully. The OP was obviously recollecting something that actually happened in a game. We will never know what actually happened. You are using necromancy to revive a thread over half a year old. The person you are replying to probably does not remember the game.

They are remembering a situation that happened, it did result in an eternal game, and I am willing to bet you can come up with something simpler if you are trying to piece together what probably happened.

As a starting point I recommend putting obstacles in the opposing lane and things you can't sacrifice like fleece in your own lanes, so that there is only one available lane with starvation in it.

I don't remember the exact specifics of the game i was mentioning....but i also don't get why i'd "require" sigils like touch of death, sharp quills, or burrower to end up in that situation either. What I do remember is that it was this abomination but with unkillable and mighty leap added by the final battle (mycologist lets you break a LOT, and getting a bunch of sigils isnt actually hard) and the moon version of starvation apparently does not have the same soft-lock preventing features as standard starvation cards:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2666772308
It was a hyper specific scenario i found myself in a long time ago that i made a passing mention of while avoiding certain potential spoilers, not something i intended to argue about in a necro thread more than a year after the fact lol. Barring such hyper specific issues with the starvation mechanic, it generally works as intended (for better or worse).

[Truth_X_ile]

The most OP combo that is full proof against any Starvation is Mighty Leap, Corpse Eater & Fecundity, this ensures that no matter how far you are in, you are protected

With the said above as an infinite loop, eventually cycling through rounds of Starvation, they will eventually give you the option to trade out Starvations giving them to you, even more so, further into the rounds, Starvations will come with Airborne as well

If there is any Starvation's on the field, you'd need to sacrifice something that can fly over & attack

As well as the above screenshot, that card is still vulnerable to flying creatures, then if you have no way to get rid of them via sacrifices & replacements, you're in trouble against flying creatures

As I have tested, there is nothing beyond Flying Starvation's, they just increase by one damage every round when replaced, no other sigils are added

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Good Luck & Have Fun