Lethal with Pax mod?

[Similar]

Came across the monk by the dock and wanted to see if I could get a less hysterical ending to the mission if I used Pax this time, so I made a shotgun and put the mod on it.
Apparently someone still died somehow, so that was a waste, but I find it a bit concerning because that means I could accidentally kill one of Regina's cyberpsychos, which probably wouldn't be popular.

Is it something to do with shotguns? I've never used Pax on one before, only on sniper rifles and assault rifles.

[Actalo]

Critical hits are (almost) always lethal, even with Pax. In addition, there appears to be a damage threshold for dismemberment outside of critical hits which would be (almost) always fatal.

[Bjørn]

Originally posted by Actalo:

Critical hits are (almost) always lethal, even with Pax.

I've not had much experience with guns, but I just felt like commenting that critical head-'shots' with thrown knives (head throws? ) with Pax have always been non-lethal for me so far, as far as I've noticed. But the question is about shotguns, so I'll go away now...

[Similar]

Originally posted by Actalo:

Critical hits are (almost) always lethal, even with Pax. In addition, there appears to be a damage threshold for dismemberment outside of critical hits which would be (almost) always fatal.

Thanks. I checked the bodies and there was no dismemberment, so I guess it must have been a criticial hit.

hm. If each projectile has a chance to crit, shotguns might be a rather bad choice, especially the Satara I used since it fires 14. I just couldn't make anything else that could take a Pax mod at the time (very early game).

[Actalo]

There's a mod to fix that by disabling critical hits which I use because I don't like critical hits. I just use damage scaling mods to increase weapon damage.

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/4247

[Silverbane7]

Thing with PAX is, any secondary damage can kill them, much like a cyberpsycho.

This includes hitting furniture, scenery, a chooms stray bullet, the wall....sometimes even just the damn floor.
For this specific job, I sneak in the back and ether hit them with overheat+short circuit or, wait till one of them is near the boxes (break chain) to knock em out, then just sneak up and sleeper hold the rest of them.

At least, I generally do. Veronica has not been there yet....but since 'the client' (monk) specifically asked for non lethal, I guess that counts for her 'I can't kill em all....*disappointed sigh* oh well'
(She's my maniac character. Everyone dies, unless she's told they must survive lol)

There used to be an eye mod you could slot, made everything 100% non lethal.
But eye mods (and cyberware mods themselves) went bye bye.
There is a mod at the nexus that offered them back again....but I can't remember its name.
(If I remember or find it, I'll link)

[Tokenn]

Those Maelstrom goons holding the monk are the most fragile enemies in the whole game. The only way I've found to compete the quest (non lethally) is to stealth the whole thing and use non-lethal manual takedowns.

The whole 'non-lethal' weapon mod mechanic makes very little sense to me. I generally avoid using it.

[tbloyzz]

Originally posted by Tokenn:

Those Maelstrom goons holding the monk are the most fragile enemies in the whole game. The only way I've found to compete the quest (non lethally) is to stealth the whole thing and use non-lethal manual takedowns.

The whole 'non-lethal' weapon mod mechanic makes very little sense to me. I generally avoid using it.

I did a mix of non-lethal takedowns, overheats and falling boxes, but the monk was still not happy. I think the falling boxes were actually lethal.
As for the Pax, I could not care less about the weapon being lethal, but the 20% damage bonus are interesting. You can either use this on an extreme damage weapon (and lose the bonus immediately after because you enter combat) or you use it on a silenced weapon and stay stealthy. Either way has its benefits regardless whether the target survives or not.

[Similar]

Originally posted by Silverbane7:

Thing with PAX is, any secondary damage can kill them, much like a cyberpsycho.

This includes hitting furniture, scenery, a chooms stray bullet, the wall....sometimes even just the damn floor.

yeah, I'm pretty sure I once killed an incapacitated enemy just by stepping on them (possibly from a slightly raised ledge, but still).

The guy who I think died was kind of in the middle of everything, so he could have been hit by lots of stray bullets (he was face down and facing away from me, which was actually a bit weird, but maybe the ragdoll flop when he died caused that).

Originally posted by Silverbane7:

For this specific job, I sneak in the back and ether hit them with overheat+short circuit or, wait till one of them is near the boxes (break chain) to knock em out, then just sneak up and sleeper hold the rest of them.

I'm realizing that I don't actually have a very good idea of what kills people and what doesn't. For the longest time I thought that the incapacitated enemies were actually dead and this game just had a really weird way of showing it. I figured Overheat lethally fried them, for example.
I'm using the Psalm Something Or Other a fair bit right now and even explosive bullets leave a surprising number of people alive (which is a little annoying, actually, since the people I use it on are ones I don't want to survive; anybody even remotely involved with Jotaro dies, for example).

Originally posted by Silverbane7:

At least, I generally do. Veronica has not been there yet....but since 'the client' (monk) specifically asked for non lethal, I guess that counts for her 'I can't kill em all....*disappointed sigh* oh well'
(She's my maniac character. Everyone dies, unless she's told they must survive lol)

hehe. The first time I ran into the mission I had no non-lethal stuff (or, I thought I hadn't), but I figured saving the brother had to be what mattered, and of course it turned out that keeping a bunch of sadistic psychopaths alive so they could go on to do sadistic and psychopathic things to even more people was more important for the monks.
Which actually really pissed me off, like it probably is supposed to.
It's kind of a nicely different mission.

[Bjørn]

Originally posted by Similar:

yeah, I'm pretty sure I once killed an incapacitated enemy just by stepping on them (possibly from a slightly raised ledge, but still).

Yes, I've also noticed it doesn't take much to kill an incapacitated enemy. Dropping down from a low ledge like you say will often kill them, as will jumping on them, I think. Kind of frustrating when you try to do things non-lethal, but mess up during the looting phase by running too fast into their body or something...

[Silverbane7]

@Similar

Generally, fatal is

Stuffing targets (non quest ones) into trunks of cars (boots for us Brits) fridges, cupboards, chest freezers, white bins (2 corpse) dumpsters (3corpse) trash shute (unlimited?) or skips.
Double tapping (another shot/hit with melee)
Dismemberment.
Beheaded ('there can be only one' or 'this is my boomstick'...occasionally, one punch man)
Certain quickhacks.
Falling into water (I think. Have yet to toss someone into water to see, but yeeting off a building probably counts too)

You can usually tell they are alive/dead by position or cross hair.
Red cross hair means down but alive (important for a couple of quests)
Lying on their back, knees up, hand on chest/stomach or on the side, curled up, clutching their face (like a Blood Elf guy 'not the face!' lol)
Sometimes, weird stuff happens.....

Once, I saw a gang fight near Lizzie's (maelstrom vrs Tygers. Regular spot there. Sometimes maelstrom vrs Scav's) and went in (Veronica....or, Red Ravager as I call her. Replacement for MurkMan XD..the costumed calamity) with her Kendaichi Monoblade (mod) and sliced the lot of them.
One of the severed heads....the eyes kept following me...o.0 so.....creepy.

[Tokenn]

Originally posted by tbloyzz:

As for the Pax, I could not care less about the weapon being lethal, but the 20% damage bonus are interesting. You can either use this on an extreme damage weapon (and lose the bonus immediately after because you enter combat) or you use it on a silenced weapon and stay stealthy. Either way has its benefits regardless whether the target survives or not.

Hmmm...I'm going to have to rethink my opinion of the Pax mod. I'm going to designate a gun as 'Non-Lethal' and see how it works. Thousands of hours in the game and still things to explore.

[Silverbane7]

Originally posted by Tokenn:

Originally posted by tbloyzz:

As for the Pax, I could not care less about the weapon being lethal, but the 20% damage bonus are interesting. You can either use this on an extreme damage weapon (and lose the bonus immediately after because you enter combat) or you use it on a silenced weapon and stay stealthy. Either way has its benefits regardless whether the target survives or not.

Hmmm...I'm going to have to rethink my opinion of the Pax mod. I'm going to designate a gun as 'Non-Lethal' and see how it works. Thousands of hours in the game and still things to explore.

I used to do that with 'Dying Night', back before the 2.0 update yeeted my modslots.
(Mainly as its been my main V's signature weapon)
Now, because they fixed the skin (in the game guide, it states that 'Dying Night' is awarded to the player when winning Wilson's shooting competition. Something I had not read till recently....was too busy drooling over the detailed maps lol... So it looks like they fixed I by giving the Lexington the old skin)
I just stash Dying Night and stick with the Lexington.

Even better, there is a mod that swaps the default gun V uses in all cutscene and scripted stuff (basegame at least, not sure about that scripted bit in phantom liberty) to one of a selection of pistol skins.
Dying Night (new) Lexington, Malorian, Archangel ect.
I grabbed the Lexington of course, since its my go to default now.

Otherwise, I find a decent non iconic with a slot spare and slot the PAX for characters that only kill certain folks. (Violet, Valerie, Vincent, Valkyrie.) The rest ether use blade/blunt or quickhacks... (Or don't care...lol)

[Tokenn]

Originally posted by Silverbane7:

Otherwise, I find a decent non iconic with a slot spare and slot the PAX for characters that only kill certain folks. (Violet, Valerie, Vincent, Valkyrie.) The rest ether use blade/blunt or quickhacks... (Or don't care...lol)

That's my plan. It's pretty easy to pick up a Tier 5 Unity, so I will likely go with that. If it doesn't work out, I can disassemble it with no regrets.

[Phynrae]

Originally posted by Actalo:

Critical hits are (almost) always lethal, even with Pax. In addition, there appears to be a damage threshold for dismemberment outside of critical hits which would be (almost) always fatal.

Yeah i think this is precisely how it works now, since the 2.0 update atleast.

It didn't used to, before 2.0 you could put a silencer and a PAX on an Overture revolver, and that thing hits like a truck, yet it would never kill enemies due to the PAX, not even with headshots.

Now you can put a silencer and a PAX on a Unity pistol, and have their heads explode if they just happen to be low enough level, or you get a crit.


Thing is though, now that we can only silence pistols, you kinda have to use headshots. The Overture was powerful enough that it could take people down with a torso shot, but none of the pistols can do that, you have to aim for the head.

Since 2.0, trying to play non-lethal has become very hard indeed..