Details that disturbed my Immersion

[Notoshy]

1. Regina's last Cyberpsycho
There is a Side Mission in a Warehouse. A Mox turned psycho and you can, like with the other Cyberpsychos, neutralize her without killing her.
...but Regina just doesnt care. She tells us to kill that Mox when we get close to the Location. She did care for the other Psychos and gets disappointed/angry if we kill them... but this one? Ice cold.
2. Phantom Liberty - easy Way to get her out of the District is not even a hidden option?
Our Job is it to get the NUSA President out of Dogtown... but its "complicated", so we have to contact Reed.
A few Meters from our hideout in Dogtown is a Tunnel with increased Crime. What is at the end of this Tunnel? Pacifica, really close to the Coast....
It would have been easy to contact a Fixer to prepare her departure, drag her through that Tunnel and send her Home. All without involving Reed.
Im sure Songbird could have been freed in some other Way.
With the different Options at the end of the Maingame, its sad that such "quick" ending in the DLC wasnt an option^^
3. In one ending, i get lead to a Mikoshi Access Point... but there doesnt seem to be an option to start the Attack, that we planned with Alt.
At this Moment, there are only 2 other People in the Room... none of them would be a hindrance to take over Mikoshi and let Alt help us.

The endings in the Main Game are..... lets say, they give me a Headache. Finally had time to finish a playthrough (you know the situation, where you want to do something.... and there is always something that stops you from doing it? ...yeah... that).

I can end the Game "early" right there on the Balcony. Frustrating but i can understand that.
I can trigger a secret, special Path, if i force myself to pick specific Conversations at some Point in the Game. Not much of a fun RPG, if i have to follow a Guide to get an Ending dozens of Hours down the Line.
I can decide to endanger dear Friends and attack Arasaka... with a high risk to lose these Friends.
I can decide to "sell my Soul" and take the offer from Hanako... dethroning Yorinobu, causing Chaos within Arasaka, getting access to the Arasaka Tower without Bloodshed AND a chance of getting cured.
...but that is apparently the "bad" ending? (you can guess which Route i picked)

Checked the other ending online, while the Credits rolled and i still think that the Arasaka offer is the one, where i can get what i want without risking the wellbeing of others. Why? I think its obvious.
The Aldecaldos? Arasaka would hunt them all down and they wouldnt stand a Chance against whole Armies, even if the initial attack succeeds. Rogue? Arasaka already knows about her and the Afterlife would turn into a graveyard if the Owner attacks Arasaka directly.
Even if its not an actual part of the Route we pick, Lore-wise Arasaka would totally do that.
It was pretty obvious long before they revealed it in the Game, what the experimental Secure your Soul Device would be meant for (i mean, they basically wrote it, that one was not for Sale but inhouse use). I knew there was a risk that it could happen at some Point, but the Arasakas DID keep their Promise to treat me. They could have threw me out of an airlock while i was knocked out, i gave them more than enough Reasons to kill me xD
V got used and lied to so often in the Game (main and dlc) .... and in the end its Arasaka of all people who keep their Promise without hidden strings attached??
The travel back to Earth still was demotivating.

Sorry for the small Rant xD

[Silverbane7]

Number 1
This is actually just a gig. It only feels like it's connected to her cyberpsycho missions because the Mox went batso.

I've done this gig before even triggering the conversation with Regina about cyberpsycho attacks.

(You sneak out of the yard at Vik's without talking to Jackie, after getting your base cyberware from Vik. If Jackie does not tell you about meeting Dex near 'Gramsy's Burgers' Regina does not call, the cyberpsychos do not spawn. I do this so I don't have to worry about triggering them early..and so the Jackster gets some time with Misty lol)

So yeah. Mantis Blades Mox is not one of Regina's official cyberpsychos.
Go ahead and flatline her if you want.

Also...
A lot of players accidentally got the secret ending on their first 1.0 playthru, because they chose those options for themselves....then sat on that rooftop not able to choose who to ask for help.
Granted, it was easier to do back then.
But yeah. I watched a no commentary playthru on a ps5 on patch 1.0 and 1.01 where this was their first choice just because they could not decide.
People were commenting on this saying they ended up in the same boat lol.
'Johnny just up and offered me that choice, while I was thinking about it lol. I had no idea it was secret'

All the endings are kinda like that. If you want a different one...

Well, you can play the tabletop and pick other options (if you got an amenable GM)

You can play one of the two boardgames...as one is a 'what if..V did t finish the heist?'
(a 'seer' calls V telling them NOT to do the gig, and what happens after)

There are two vids on YouTube made by Valerie Silverhand. Fanfiction endings
One is 'we're both getting out of here' ending with a cliffhanger that suggested the next one, a fan made fictional dlc where V truly goes the extra mile for her digital choom.
But those two are more for the Team Silverhand+V folks lol.

Johnny kinda says it himself.
'Wrong people, wrong city'
Generally, cyberpunk does not give 'happy endings' unless you don't mind your 'happy' not being the standard 'and they all lived happily ever after'

(My 'happy' would have just been 6 months with Johnny in V's head, without the chip overwriting lol. But that's me, I know the City and didn't expect a Disney end for us)

[Notoshy]

I know that this Cyberpsycho Task is not part of the Sidequest Line from regina. But she is the one who calls us, when we get near and is invested in solving the issue.
The full on "kill her" from the ONE person, who at another time gave me the task to NOT KILL another Girl, who was used as Host in a pretty much techno-satanical incantation to let a wild AI posessing her.
Its like she got a Job of collecting a fix amount of cyberpsychos for experimentation, let us do it and after that is finished, she is just another person of Night City who thinks "cyberpsycho? these Guys should simply be killed on the spot".


My issue with the endings is.... it feels kinda forced (beside that it is scripted). That Johnny isnt happy with my choice is a given, he dislikes Arasaka. he wasnt present then, but i gave Saburo the middle finger in the name of Johnny when i got the chance, so its not that i really sold myself to them.
It was near the access point to Mikoshi, so it would have been the PERFECT moment to add another Path. Like a "iam ready" notice from Alt, middlefinger to Saburo, leaving Hanako behind and go to the Access point in the next Room, letting Alt do her AI-magic.

From the very Beginning i made it clear to Johnny that its "my body, my choice", that this is about my survival. Refused his Will very often, but listened to his experience. At no Point in Time i gave him a clue that i would follow his Will to never pick Arasakas help.
But when the moment came, he acted like i betrayed him. Followed by that whole manipulative "you make a big mistake" " you changed to the worse, while i changed to the better" speeches. He was trying to gaslight me^^ All he wanted from the very beginning was a repetition of his attack on the Arasaka Tower. Rogue and him, in control of my Body, storming the Building.... and i was supposed to agree to that?

That Misty was pissed on the other hand is something that i dont understand.
She knew Jackie lost his Grounding over the Heist, that he took to much risks. She told him, that she isnt happy with this Heist and the Danger he is putting himself in.
After he died, she was sad and was more angry at Jackie and herself that it happened.
But when she realized that i picked Arasaka to save my Life, she called me a Traitor, despite knowing that i didnt had much options anyway.
The Arasaka-route was designed to punish the Player from the moment, that it was picked. Maybe the Devs thought, that the Player was siding with the Corporation the entire time, i dont know. As final salt to the Wound, they give the Player the option to become an Engram in Mikoshi, just like Johnny, Contract and all and sent the only Person in Arasaka, that we trusted, to talk us into signing.
Even when we say no and the Credits roll, Hanako calls and implies that they would hire me for the time until i die.... basically making me the new Adam Smasher.
(which would be an annoying Lore-piece, because i somewhat belief that they did the exact same thing to Smasher, turning him into this loyal Pet-Weapon over time)

[Silverbane7]

They didn't turn Smasher into a loyal killing machine.
He was that already.
Smasher is what he is because he likes to kill.

He's a full Borg because he had an accident that destroyed enough of him that he couldn't just swap a bit out, but also only left enough if him viable that a full Borg body was the only option.

He'd been swapping meat for metal for years before that.

It's in his contract that he gets to be messy, do the dirty work and MDK for them.
Not a contract they forced HIM into... But a contract he forced THEM into lol.
If Arasaka wants something done messy, visible and as a warning to others...they ask Smasher to do it.

When you go with Hanako's plan, you don't get Alt's help and you don't get Alt's shard.
Alt and you two (V and Johnny) talked when you first met, but she does not give you the shard (with her program on it) unless you go back to the BBS to meet her again.

So of course Johnny considers it betrayal.
You can't fake Hanako out just to get to the access point that way. You would have had to meet up with Alt again in cyberspace first.
So you can't just 'make a dash' for the access point.

Misty sees you calling Arasaka a betrayal too because to her, Arasaka are the ones that killed Jackie.
Sure, it may have been his ego, desperation to get into Afterlife, trying to 'fly too high on wax wings' that caused his death. But to her... Arasaka are to blame just as much, if not more. (Yeah, she and we players may be lying to ourselves. Arasaka were just protecting something important. Super serious important... Saburo's immortality. But that won't stop us *feeling* like it's their fault.)
It's even worse if you sent Jackie's body to Viks after the ride to meet Dex.

But you are kinda right about the endings being sort of forced.

[Notoshy]

Originally posted by Silverbane7:

Misty sees you calling Arasaka a betrayal too because to her, Arasaka are the ones that killed Jackie.
Sure, it may have been his ego, desperation to get into Afterlife, trying to 'fly too high on wax wings' that caused his death. But to her... Arasaka are to blame just as much, if not more. (Yeah, she and we players may be lying to ourselves. Arasaka were just protecting something important. Super serious important... Saburo's immortality. But that won't stop us *feeling* like it's their fault.)
It's even worse if you sent Jackie's body to Viks after the ride to meet Dex.

But you are kinda right about the endings being sort of forced.

They didnt even actually protect Saburo's immortality, when they attacked Jackie and V, they merely did their Job. All they knew was that Code Red was triggered, an Arasaka was killed, their Netrunner was attacked and 2 Men were spotted by a Drone, trying to escape the penthouse. We didnt follow the Orders of Konpeki Security and are therefore suspicious.
They added 1 + 1 and assumed we are involved with the Murder.
Except Saburo, Hanako and Helman (maybe Yorinobu too), nobody knew what the experimental Relic was for. Would the Guards have known or received Orders to act in a specific Way, they would have never used ballistic Ammunition on Jackie and V.
The risk of damaging the Relic would be immense.
From my Point of View (didnt read too much of the lore outside what i read in shards, so you probably have other knowledge), finding Helman afterwards and letting him analyse the condition of V and how it happened, gave crucial Data on how to do a successful Transfer, making it possible in the first place, what happened in the Epilogue, when the defeated and burnt out Yorinobu is with Hanako and the last we see is, how she injects something into him.
Thats maybe also the Reason why Helman returned to Arasaka after trying to get to Kangtao. His new found Knowledge was very valuable and made him the Key to bring Saburo back. Honestly... i didnt expect that coward to be part of my Escort to Hanako xD

Its probably a totally wrong assumption, but one could assume that the catastrophic fail of the Heist (note: the murder is a seperate event, since it wasnt done by the Player) lead to the needed Knowledge to resurrect Saburo.

[Silverbane7]

One does *not* leave Arasaka by the back door.
(like... one does not simply walk into Mordor)

Hellman was being snuggled out by KangTao yeah. They wanted the tech. They ALL want the tech. The Relic (not the special Relic, I call it the Reliquary to separate it) because people will pay anything to keep loved ones with them. Even if it's just a copy of them.

Hellman goes back because he has no other option.
Arasaka now knows where he is, and Saburo's engram now knows that transfer is possible.
But then... He already knew this.
Hellman was working from the theory that you copy an engram to an empty mind.
Saburo was working from the understanding that you can't copy over empty.
He always planned to copy over Yorinobu. (Once his first born Kei Arasaka was gone I think)
I think he was just waiting for something like Yori stealing the chip, proving that he really was the traitor Saburo saw him as.
Yorinobu knew Saburo would try something like that, probably from the moment he saw the Relic and Relic 2.0.
Why hand the reigns of power over to the next generation, when you can BE the next generation?
And no one would think it strange, for the son to take over the father's power once he is gone. That is how things work, both legally and culturally. (Hanako and Michiko would not be heirs, only the mothers of heirs. Power passes thru males in Asia iirc) so Saburo would be able to continue as normal.

I personally think the Reliquary being damaged is what kept V alive. Not in the 'nanites fixed enough damage to bring V back' way, but in the 'damaged enough that the Reliquary could not do it's job fast enough' kind of thing.
Johnny not actually wanting to take over after realising how long it had been too, probably helped.
If Saburo had been on the chip, I get the feeling that V would have never truly woken up at Viks, had it not been so badly damaged. And might have lasted a lot less time if it had been him in there rather than Johnny.
A guy like Saburo has little time for wasting on anything other than his plans.

[Notoshy]

To be fully honest.... i think Yori just wanted to steal the Reliquiary to annoy his Father. He isnt the first-born and he disappointed Saburo later with that Steal Dragon episode. His Father didnt saw a potential Heir of Arasaka in him. As you said, the Daughters are out of the Picture, idiotic Traditions forbids them to be a successor.
Saburo gave much more interest to his Relic 2.0 Project than he gave to Yorinobu.
So the Son did what every child with a lack of parental Love does.... forcing the Attention by stealing, breaking stuff, ..... by Rebellion.
When Saburo came to him and arrogantly lectured Yori about what a disappointment he is, Yori finally snapped.
The great Saburo gave so little credit to his Son, that he never even imagined that Yori would attack him..... he maybe was a smart Corporate Leader, but as Father figure he was a complete and utter failure.

...thats why i actually pity Yorinobu. All he wanted was parental Love and acknowledgement, making his Father proud. He was never fit to run the Company.... and i think he knew that himself. But with his Father gone, he didnt had much Choice.
I somewhat belief that, even if Yorinobu would be the perfect Son and works his Butt off for the sake of Arasaka .... Saburo would have been ruthless enough to kill his Son at some point and slip into his Body. That old Man only accepts perfection..... and nobody but himself is perfect. Immortality by slipping into the Body of a Family Member, whenever his own Body fails. Thats how i view the Intention of Saburo Arasaka.

[Graf Erik]

1. Yeah, you can take down that one non-lethaly, but noone cares. Probaly is something they simply forgot.
2. You, as in: the player, know about that tunnel. V doesnt know, Meyers doesnt know, Songbird is gone. Realistically it doesnt make sense to leave Meyers behind so that you can try to find a route out if there is someone in Dogtown you could just ask (Reed). Once Mayers is gone, it doesnt make any difference on how she left. Its about finding Songbird who is way tro dangerous to let her back.
3. Starting the attack on Mikoshi is exactly what you do by jacking in. Mikoshi is an isolated system, not accessible by the net. But V has a connection to Alt, and by plugging in yourself, Alt get access to Mikoshi and lootes the entire engram archive.
4.a) The Secret Ending is secret, go figure.
b) Alt wrecks utter havoc on the Arasakas security system, wipes all records, kills anyone on site. They never learned what hit them. And the Aldecaldos simply leave.
c) Rogue dies during the attack.
d) The devil? Well, why would you think Arasaka will ever let you go. After all that happened. After all you know. They take the opprotunity to do some experiments with you brain, tell you they cant cure you, and if you want you are free to go :). But you never actually leave the station, do you?

[セーラーマーズ]

Originally posted by Notoshy:

That old Man only accepts perfection..... and nobody but himself is perfect. Immortality by slipping into the Body of a Family Member, whenever his own Body fails. Thats how i view the Intention of Saburo Arasaka.

I think it's more that he doesn't think that anyone else has the will to follow through with his plans. He's what we could call a collective narcissist.

[セーラーマーズ]

Originally posted by Silverbane7:

Power passes thru males in Asia iirc) so Saburo would be able to continue as normal.

Not in the Heian era, it wasn't! (lol but it largely ended after that).

[セーラーマーズ]

Originally posted by Graf Erik:

2. You, as in: the player, know about that tunnel. V doesnt know, Meyers doesnt know, Songbird is gone.」

「d) The devil? Well, why would you think Arasaka will ever let you go. After all that happened. After all you know. They take the opprotunity to do some experiments with you brain, tell you they cant cure you, and if you want you are free to go :). But you never actually leave the station, do you?

Actually, if anyone knows all the ways to leave the area, it would be the guys who own the turf (that is, Hansen and friends). So, I agree, it probably won't be that easy to leave lol

But, I think Arasaka isn't as opportunistic as you claim they are. In fact, at the time of the end of the game, they are really the only ones who have a proven solution to saving you. By creating an engram, you're technically immortal and they can bring you back as soon as they find a suitable body (maybe a full body conversion, maybe a clone, or maybe a 'volunteer' lol

With Phantom Liberty, however, Reed and NUSA do provide the 'best' solution - but at the cost of Songbird's freedom and you being 'crippled' for life XD

[EricHVela]

Metagaming is a great way to pick apart a game. Pick apart any story enough and one will find flaws.

[Notoshy]

Originally posted by EricHVela:

Metagaming is a great way to pick apart a game. Pick apart any story enough and one will find flaws.

Each of us has these Games, that we enjoy alot. The more we like a Game, the easier it will be to notice disruptions. These little glitches in the Framework of the Story/Lore/World, that just doesnt fit in.

[Silverbane7]

Originally posted by Notoshy:

Originally posted by EricHVela:

Metagaming is a great way to pick apart a game. Pick apart any story enough and one will find flaws.

Each of us has these Games, that we enjoy alot. The more we like a Game, the easier it will be to notice disruptions. These little glitches in the Framework of the Story/Lore/World, that just doesnt fit in.

i use the 'its a cyberware glitch' the 'it's a relic glitch' and 'i'm going batso insane' excuses XD myself.

take the 'pixilated smoke clouds' issue. as i get closer to the smoke, it stops being pixelated.
'that's just my Kiroshi's not being fully bedded in yet'

seeing characters appear before their cars?
'the Relic can't keep up with the rest of my visual cortex cyberware/Kiroshi's i just upgraded, so it's processing the data thru as fast as it can, and that's why i see people first, then cars second at the corner of Kabuki sometimes'

when i see people T-Posing, vanishing or appearing...
'Johnny? i think i'm finally loosing it... are you okay in there?'
XD

(while it could just be low graphics card, which was the damned 'reccomended' back when i built her, it's closer to 'minimum' now >.> thanks to bloody Nvidia and their new shinys.... or bugs... or spagettie code freaking...i find i can still enjoy it if i embrace the dumb sometimes and pretend its all part of 'a damaged engram in a fading mind, breaking the train of thought and misfiring the cyberware' lol)