Phantom Liberty ending - simply bad

[El Mariachi]

Spoilers below

So basically i think the phantom liberty ending where you "betray" songbird and go to the clinic is incredibily stupid and immersion breaking. I mean okay, i understand you are "weak" because you spent 2 years in a coma and cannot use cyberware implants anymore... so what? Thats the reason why V cannot use / have a pistol with him ? I mean i ended the game literally having milion eddies, all gear and weapons on tier 5++, whats the reason V cannot just hire some mercs/buy some robots for his own protection? Not to mention that the end mission itself was probably the worst mission in this DLC (force stealth with insta death if they spot you ? really? and after that you kill 40+ of them?)

Maybe im a little bit venting because im hugely dissapointed, but its a shame that in a game of this caliber, the only "cool" or satisfying ending is going into arasaka alone with johnny all guns blazing

[id795078477]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Balekai:

Początkowo opublikowane przez id795078477:

Again: 2 years is too much for V but 50 years isn't too much for Johny. I don't see the logic (or fairness) in this treatment.

Fairness has nothing to do with it A (just like real life). B no one likes Johnny anyways. It's not like when people find out Johnny's in V's head they're all of a sudden jumping up and down saying:

"OMG you're alive I missed you soooo much! Lets start AGAIN weee!!"

It's more like:

"OH WTF, of all people YOU!? Get out of my face!" lol

The exact same treatment V gets when they're found alive in some cases (but not all like Johnny haha). Or Reed for that matter. I personally don't care about the NPC relationships and never did anyways. They were short hookups and acquaintances save for Misty, Vik and Jackie. I only care about V so that helps. :p

The only person of the noobie friends I feel like I let down and owed something to was Goru. He saved V's life and V made him a promise he/she didn't keep. That goes for other non-Arasaka endings too. If it wasn't for him you would likely be dead or in Arasaka custody. Of course he didn't do it for V and you saved him in return so there's that.

Again this is Night City. My favourite movie to compare this ending to is Cast Away. If 4 years was enough time for the world to move on from the much loved protagonist, including his loving wife (not girlfriend/boyfriend for a few days/weeks), in a world where people don't die/go missing all around you day in day out, then 2 years for V missing/dead is more than enough time for everyone to move on.

Hey Judy moved on from Evelyn in a few days/weeks too! She already showed the capability of dumping one love interest for another pretty fast. Was that fair to Evelyn? :D

Your reason for not liking the endings is because people move on too fast. They did for Johnny and probably even quicker. It's not their fault that Johnny shows up 50 years later. :p

Also if Johnny can pull off with V's help, mending his 50 year old toxic relationships with old "friends," i'm pretty sure V can mend relationships with his/hers as well two years later. Like River is a ♥♥♥♥ to female V love interest, but changes his tune pretty quickly when you say you were in a coma. His problem isn't with V but with himself becoming a corrupt failure and can't look V in the eye. In the new ending V has only been up and around for a few days. Still doesn't even have hair back yet form being in the coma ward (assuming V's hair wasn't cybernetic implants they could no longer handle lol)! :) :)

But Johny is remembered. His choices in the past changed the world around. Even should he not get a second chance - his character isn't a pointless gear pusher, he achieved something. And then again - he does get a second chance.

And - no, it doesn't matter how many people tell me the "nobody wins in NC" and not matter how many times. Some characters, like Jonhy - do. And this is why I do not agree with V's treatment based off such argument.

We can also discuss forever the "fairness" of it and the "realism". At the end of the day, "IRL" there's a very high chance V would just die from a random stray bullet when a drugged punk somewhere pulled a gun on someone he didn't like at random. People don't live long when there's an open carry of the machine guns on the streets. Especially if those people go out of their way to put themselves in dangers. But we have those - you know, health bars, armor, cyberware and whatnot - for a reason.

People have the right no not like the endings when they see their investment and achievements are worth nothing. It doesn't help to preach that "it has to be bad because in Cyberpunk it's bad". That horse is beaten dead and that reasoning is fake.

[Balekai]

Początkowo opublikowane przez id795078477:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Balekai:

Fairness has nothing to do with it A (just like real life). B no one likes Johnny anyways. It's not like when people find out Johnny's in V's head they're all of a sudden jumping up and down saying:

"OMG you're alive I missed you soooo much! Lets start AGAIN weee!!"

It's more like:

"OH WTF, of all people YOU!? Get out of my face!" lol

The exact same treatment V gets when they're found alive in some cases (but not all like Johnny haha). Or Reed for that matter. I personally don't care about the NPC relationships and never did anyways. They were short hookups and acquaintances save for Misty, Vik and Jackie. I only care about V so that helps. :p

The only person of the noobie friends I feel like I let down and owed something to was Goru. He saved V's life and V made him a promise he/she didn't keep. That goes for other non-Arasaka endings too. If it wasn't for him you would likely be dead or in Arasaka custody. Of course he didn't do it for V and you saved him in return so there's that.

Again this is Night City. My favourite movie to compare this ending to is Cast Away. If 4 years was enough time for the world to move on from the much loved protagonist, including his loving wife (not girlfriend/boyfriend for a few days/weeks), in a world where people don't die/go missing all around you day in day out, then 2 years for V missing/dead is more than enough time for everyone to move on.

Hey Judy moved on from Evelyn in a few days/weeks too! She already showed the capability of dumping one love interest for another pretty fast. Was that fair to Evelyn? :D

Your reason for not liking the endings is because people move on too fast. They did for Johnny and probably even quicker. It's not their fault that Johnny shows up 50 years later. :p

Also if Johnny can pull off with V's help, mending his 50 year old toxic relationships with old "friends," i'm pretty sure V can mend relationships with his/hers as well two years later. Like River is a ♥♥♥♥ to female V love interest, but changes his tune pretty quickly when you say you were in a coma. His problem isn't with V but with himself becoming a corrupt failure and can't look V in the eye. In the new ending V has only been up and around for a few days. Still doesn't even have hair back yet form being in the coma ward (assuming V's hair wasn't cybernetic implants they could no longer handle lol)! :) :)

But Johny is remembered. His choices in the past changed the world around. Even should he not get a second chance - his character isn't a pointless gear pusher, he achieved something. And then again - he does get a second chance.

And - no, it doesn't matter how many people tell me the "nobody wins in NC" and not matter how many times. Some characters, like Jonhy - do. And this is why I do not agree with V's treatment based off such argument.

We can also discuss forever the "fairness" of it and the "realism". At the end of the day, "IRL" there's a very high chance V would just die from a random stray bullet when a drugged punk somewhere pulled a gun on someone he didn't like at random. People don't live long when there's an open carry of the machine guns on the streets. Especially if those people go out of their way to put themselves in dangers. But we have those - you know, health bars, armor, cyberware and whatnot - for a reason.

People have the right no not like the endings when they see their investment and achievements are worth nothing. It doesn't help to preach that "it has to be bad because in Cyberpunk it's bad". That horse is beaten dead and that reasoning is fake.

Johnny didn't change anything and didn't win anything. He is hardly remembered by anyone except hardcore rocker boys, some of his pals in crime (who hated him), some higher ups in Arasaka and at the Afterlife in drink only. His "legend" like most of them, is kind of sad and lackluster. If mercs weren't so full of themselves, those legends that they know little of would be cautionary tales. Not something to actually live up to.

The world kept on going the same way it always did, without them controlled by corps.

Johnny started a Corpo War when at the end of the day, a weakened Arasaka and Militech were still on top and the world was even more messed up. That was not his intention. His intention was the entire overthrowing of corpo rule replaced by unicorns and rainbows.

Just like Bartmoss. Her/Their intention was to free the net. Ended up with most of it being sealed off with AI horror shows on the other side and the remaining net more controlled than ever... by a Corp (Netwatch).

This is the running theme of this world and most Cyberpunk. Even all the NPC endings do so in PL, save Judy and Misty that decide not to play the game anymore and "win." All Vik had to do to in order to not become a corpo slave was pack up and start a shop somewhere else, but he couldn't let go of NC. So now he's beholden to a corp working for jerks and people he really doesn't like.

The more you try to change things the more they stay the same. All the narratives point to an entropic, dystopian hopeless society in 2077. It may not be the way you want it to be, but it is the way it is in that world and the way it is written.

Johnny died. He's a ghost on a chip that was stuck in some vault for 50 years. Even if he gets out, he only has one "happyish" ending with Temperance via taking over V's body and starting a new simple life, without the drama of Corps, NC and edgerunning. In that ending he is still shunned though for "stealing" V's life by other NPCs. That ending ends basically in the same "headspace" as V's new ending (well where V's headspace will eventually end up likely. More like a Vik than a Jackie). Johnny in many endings with the right choices, is content with his lot. Something few people manage to gain in that world and is a victory in of itself. V in the new ending gets that same reward even if V doesn't know it yet (Misty knows and points this out to V quite clearly).

[king_of_jamaica]

The worst part of the ending for me was how predictable it was. Both the content and how nonsensical it would be.

Almost completely ruined the entire experience for me.

Hopefully for the next game they hire writers who understand that illogical and depressing != deep and thought provoking.

[Vault Traveler]

On another note, did Barghest take over the NCPD? In the ending when V is driven around I cant remember seeing any police?

Did Arasaka leave with the new Barghest Guy in charge as middle man?

[BigWezz]

Początkowo opublikowane przez rtay123:

How about a spy theory...

Since you know about the NUSA's dirty little secret with songbird, maybe that 2 year coma wasn't entirely unplanned as well as your loss of cyberware.

By doing so they neutralise an extremely deadly mercenary (V) and help to nullify your reputation as you have a high likelihood of death in Night City if you do not keep your head down. Additionally Reed offers you a post in Langley so even more eyes on you.

As for friends and companions, each has had their lives upended and distanced from V, a strong contrast to the other endings. Well Myers/FIA may want to make sure certain secrets stay buried.Coincidence... I think not!

So let's break them down one by one.
1. Judy off with her new wife... A wife who appeared out of nowhere, nice supportive and Judy doesn't want V around. Could be an FIA agent planted to pull her away from V by being a supportive 'friend' and helping her to move on and stay moved on.

2. Panam being persona non grata. We never see panam and there is some debate over her current state welfare. Assuming her demise, she may have gone looking for V and been taken out. Alternatively some stories may have been leaked in the two years to besmirch V in her eyes.

3. River struggling for cash for his nephews rehab. With an NCPD salary and employment record, his finances can be directly influenced by the FIA to keep him controlled underfoot.

4. Kerry wouldn't be much of a risk, he is a rocker boy and if he sprouted some conspiracy theory it's unlikely to be taken as fact. It would be almost a given considering his past history with Johnny Silverhand.

5. Misty and Vik were likely not deemed high risk and both had fallen on hard times. Naturally this may have been encouraged by the FIA possibly having an eye on Victor through the corp that he has partnered with.

6. Takemura lost everything in the coup attempt and has been labelled a murderer and is homeless. Rumours and reports which may have been pushed and enforced particularly hard by the FIA or possibly he was not even deemed a threat.

So why not kill all of the above.. doing so could alert V and risk the leaking of the information to news sites or corps. As mentioned earlier V is more vulnerable now and could also be taken out if deemed a security risk.

Trust has been a major factor throughout the story and the thought of the FIA letting you go free back to friends and family whole and intact does not sound like their modus operandi. Conspiracy... Maybe, but one I am going with (rather than being treated like a rag by friends!)

Food for thought.

Cool ideas, but you shouldn't have to come up with head-canon, it was the writers jobs to weave a good story .. and good ending(s).

[๖ۣۜGαЪყнн*~]

The thing is, that ending is badly written. They make V purposely be the most uncommunicative human being in the world to try and "justify" that suddenly all the friends you thought you had leave without a single ounce of care. Not sure why they made the ending like this, sure it paints a depressive picture... you have to right? It's Cyberpunk, but at the cost of completely DESTROYING all the amazing characters you once knew because there is now this really dark cloud of betrayal behind every character. V was only good for them when they needed something. Kills replayability for me personally.

[Vault Traveler]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ๖ۣۜGαЪყнн*~:

The thing is, that ending is badly written. They make V purposely be the most uncommunicative human being in the world to try and "justify" that suddenly all the friends you thought you had leave without a single ounce of care. Not sure why they made the ending like this, sure it paints a depressive picture... you have to right? It's Cyberpunk, but at the cost of completely DESTROYING all the amazing characters you once knew because there is now this really dark cloud of betrayal behind every character. V was only good for them when they needed something. Kills replayability for me personally.

I pressed T sooooo hard but to no avail.

[darkstar48507]

honestly probably not gonna play this for a while now, left a sour taste in my mouth

yeah, these endings are worse than dog water, not the dogs water but more like a dog fell into your well and has decayed there, or you drink out of a stream without checking upstream before only to see a rotting carcass up there after you drink.

the premise of the main game is, is Johnny "alive" if the soul can be deduced down to your psyche then yes, and in those endings its a chosen suicide but each character knows this and can make a choice. in the ending where V gets to live you betray every one who was close to you so much so that only vic wants to see you and really doesn't even talk to you (probably just to see that hes better off than you) and you murder Johnny who gets no choice in the matter.

the writing was just plane lazy. V has the blueprints for the chip which tell you how it activates (subject has brain death) play the main game till the point you chose the end, if your relation with Johnny is high enough to get the solo raid Reed calls and says theres a way to save you and Johnny who agrees if only to hang with and keep his choom out of trouble like his last choom did for him the whole reason he deserted in the first place. and keep the implants the reason V is given is lame, if they could repair the damage from the chip they could have fixed the damage they caused. that would have been a better ending and left an opening for a sequel (and a more impact-full bestie death...better than Jackie who you get 2 missions with...woooo)

[♠.brT]

I see this "V survives" ending as a the developers basically giving up and throwing a bone at the people who were really upset that all the original endings V would - at least according to alt- eventually die anyway. So the developers said "okay, you all want V to survive so badly, so here it goes, V survives but loses everything, including their friends! happy now?"

The original endings all fitted the theme of the game, and i consider them to be the cannon ones. Betraying So Mi feels pretty horrible, even if she did lied to V it just feels wrong to hand her over to Reed and the president, and the idea that some clinic in Europe will have the cure that not even a hugely advanced AI believes it to be possible is pure nonsense.

The best ending to the game in terms of gameplay is the ending where V and Johnny take the fight to Arasaka on their own. It's an epic battle, and V becomes legend for doing so. The best ending in terms of story however, in my honest opinion, is the one where V accepts their fate and blows his/hers brains out in that balcony. Why more people need to die in order for V to escape his/her fate, and for Johnny to have his revenge, both V's and Johnny's objectives are utterly selfish, and getting more people killed for those goals is simply not worth it.

[Rusky have sucked]

Good ending not always mean happy ending. So Mi not "selfish cow", if someone will ask - I can explain.
For those whom complain about "Tower" ending: you want V friends back? What about true friend Johnny? Do you remember conversation with him during flight? He understand that its the end, arguing with V about, asking for some other way. Have you spare him? No?
Yes, I see. Just want to live. Sure. Let`s blame So Mi on her selfishness.

[El Mariachi]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Rusky have sucked:

Good ending not always mean happy ending. So Mi not "selfish cow", if someone will ask - I can explain.
For those whom complain about "Tower" ending: you want V friends back? What about true friend Johnny? Do you remember conversation with him during flight? He understand that its the end, arguing with V about, asking for some other way. Have you spare him? No?
Yes, I see. Just want to live. Sure. Let`s blame So Mi on her selfishness.

i agree that a good ending doesnt mean happy ending, also i dont understand why everybody here is talking about "friends", i never cared about people like judy & co, for me it was a gig only, i never even tried to call them

the ending is not bad because its "sad", the ending is bad because it doesnt make sense(its actually simply stupid), is immersion breaking and very poorly written / executed.

like a poster above said:

"Cool ideas, but you shouldn't have to come up with head-canon, it was the writers jobs to weave a good story"

100% agree

im getting robbed by a gangoon that usually i would just one shoot in the face with my revolver? wtf? i am too weak to hold a gun? i am too stupid to hire some mercs with my vast fortune? also you know this is gonna happen the first time he talks to you, basically i was pressing C the whole ending so i don't have to put up with this lack of logic/common sense.

and of course on top of that, purely by coincidence the most annoying NPC ever aka "misty" shows up and talks about leaving nc etc.

overall i got mixed feelings about phantom liberty in general, its nice to have more
"cyberpunk" content as the base game itself is great, but phantom liberty aint a good dlc imo, some side gigs are cool, but the main quests feel artificial (for example running from a chimera thats 2m behind you, artificially slowed down, thousands of bullets flying everywhere but not a single one hitting you), railroaded and poorly written (yea i get it, everybody betrays everyone and its sooooo suprising and mysterious), it feels like a B-tier 80's action/spy movie with very good special effects but bad actors and bad writing and boring story overall.

Also the argument about people want "happy endings", not true, best ending in this game is the solo V/Johnny ending, which is an epic ending but i don't see how it is a "happy" ending

[Rusky have sucked]

Początkowo opublikowane przez El Mariachi:

Heh, so all side quests, gigs, NCPD, especially like Brat, saving some moron with cyberware balls and AI cola automat talkings after prologue end when Victor told V about few weeks left before flatline, that all don't bothering you much? Good story u say. I see :)
Complains about robot chasing and bullets. Man. Nah. It's a game. So, again, ressurection after bullet into head by some experimental future technology flesh-drive is ok for you, but robot chasing is artificial and bad. Ok, whatever. Looks like you shouldn't try the witcher 3 :D
Complains about robbery, nah, purpose of that was to underline new V reality of being 'another face in a crowd'. From hero to zero :D 2 years in coma and no chrome, so you need time to learn new realities of your pros/cons.
Anyway, my personal point is that 2.0 patch was phenomenal job and PL is a masterpiece. Overall it getting very positive feedback, means more ppl join my side than yours. But it doesn't matter even, because if someone arguing about something in the story should be better or different means that person care, means that story achieve its goal

[El Mariachi]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Rusky have sucked:

Początkowo opublikowane przez El Mariachi:

Heh, so all side quests, gigs, NCPD, especially like Brat, saving some moron with cyberware balls and AI cola automat talkings after prologue end when Victor told V about few weeks left before flatline, that all don't bothering you much? Good story u say. I see :)
Complains about robot chasing and bullets. Man. Nah. It's a game. So, again, ressurection after bullet into head by some experimental future technology flesh-drive is ok for you, but robot chasing is artificial and bad. Ok, whatever. Looks like you shouldn't try the witcher 3 :D
Complains about robbery, nah, purpose of that was to underline new V reality of being 'another face in a crowd'. From hero to zero :D 2 years in coma and no chrome, so you need time to learn new realities of your pros/cons.
Anyway, my personal point is that 2.0 patch was phenomenal job and PL is a masterpiece. Overall it getting very positive feedback, means more ppl join my side than yours. But it doesn't matter even, because if someone arguing about something in the story should be better or different means that person care, means that story achieve its goal

Please remember that this discussion is about the PL ending, i never said that there are no things that bother me in the original CP2077 story, of course there are some things that could be different/better.
Your comparison of the chimera chase vs getting an bullet to the head and resurrecting is also bad, both of those situations are railroaded events where you dont have any control over your character, which is anti climatic in games per se, but here atleast with the bullet and then the chip into the head you understand that the dev's had to make it like that for story purpose (also the execution of it), the chimera chase wasnt a bad idea, it was just a very very bad execution, i couldnt stop thinking of SW stormtroopers that are firing 1000 shots per second at the main hero with not even a single hit.
About the robbery, of course everybody knows what purpose it had, but again, its terribly executed and anticlimatic, it just doesnt make sense game/world - logic wise, you are a zero, true, but even zeros in night city have a pistol they can use.
Also the argument you make that i shouldnt bother with in-game world logic because its just a "game", are you also the guy who explains every stupid loophole in movies/tv series with "duh its just a movie! there are dragons flying and you want to see logic?" ?
2.0 Patch was in some parts very good and made me return to cyberpunk overall, agreed.
PL is decent if i ignore the main story, problem here is that the main story - "a great, interesting spy thriller story with many outcomes!" was the main selling point of the DLC.
About the overall positive feedback, and that more ppl join your side, thats cool, Fast & Furious has also great positive feedback and full cinemas, but everybody knows its cheap & dumb entertainment. Other then that i enjoy the new side gigs and additional content.
Also i remember when cyberpunk had the lowest rating on steam, even back then it was still a great game, so i really don't care about that feedback because people are not objective, just like you right now, you missed nearly all of my points and made arguments which made me think you are either answering somebody else or you dont have any valid points and just try to mock other people because they have a different opinion. Also of course i care about the story, its a game i played, but i don't think that means "it achieved its goal". I don't think discussing any further makes sense, so please enjoy CP2077 and have a nice day:)

[Rusky have sucked]

Początkowo opublikowane przez El Mariachi:

There are only two points of view: mine and wrong one©
Mb I didn't understand your points, but its hard to understand what you're complaining of. Bad DLC and mediocre story? Or decent DLC, but only everything outside the strory? So you mean decent 8 gigs from mr. Hands, because it is what left outside of the story? Or decent DLC, but bad alternative ending to main part which you will have in 2 PL endings from 5?
Ok, whatever, mr. specialist :D
Guess you never interesting about game rate in steam before you buy it))
So, have a nice day :)