What was Yorinobu's plan, really?

[BlackDragon]

So, I've watched all the endings by now, and from the bits and pieces you hear in them, I'm trying to figure out what it actually was that Yorinobu Arasaka was trying to accomplish. Honestly, his actions never made sense to me from the start, but I've managed to scrape together some kind of vague notion by now - curious to see if anyone has a clearer idea.

The hardest part to explain is honestly the opening. We know that Yorinobu moved the Johnny Silverhand engram onto one of the experimental 'full body takeover' Relic-chips, and smuggled it out of an Arasaka lab. We THINK, based on what Evelyn tells us at the start of the game, that he's planning to hand it over to NetWatch. Why, though? Not for the money, certainly. And why do they want it in the first place?

My theory: NetWatch wants the biochip for the same reason the Voodoo Boyz did - to use as bait for Alt, presumably with the intent of wiping her out. Certainly, a demihuman AI like her must look like a terrifying threat to NetWatch! But why would Yorinobu go to such lengths to deliver it? Well, the only thing I can think of that he'd WANT from NetWatch is their allegiance - albeit in a limited form. He's clearly been planning to supplant his father for some time, though the exact way it happened just as clearly WASN'T planned. With NetWatch on his side, it'd be much easier to solidify his reign and silence dissenting voices. But, that's honestly just a guess - I'm still rather stumped on that part. Also, none of it explains why he was using the experimental biochip instead of a plain old Relic. Perhaps he was hoping to use the biochip himself, and become Johnny Silverhand Reborn, but then where does NetWatch come in?

And then there's the larger picture... why was he doing it all in the first place? The obvious answer would be 'power', of course, but in the Devil-ending, you get to confront and question him directly, and even on his metaphorical deathbed, he denies this... claiming that he just wanted to free the world of the grip of fear that his father, Saburo, held it in. Of course, self preservation might also have been a factor, since he didn't seem too surprised as to the method of his 'execution'. But more curiously, he says some stuff about admiring Johnny Silverhand, and having concluded - when the nuclear bombs that leveled Arasaka's old Night City HQ failed to make any kind of long-term impact - that the only way to actually change anything wast to BE the bomb.

My conclusion: His endgame is the complete destruction of Arasaka itself - breaking it apart from the inside out, using the executives' short-sighted greed against them. From various endings, we know that - if not stopped by the events of the Devil ending - he will indeed murder his sister, Hanako, thus removing the only other potential heir. (Presumably he also erases Saburo's engram once he figures out that it exists.) He also seems to be deliberately courting a war with Miltech despite the losses that Arasaka has suffered at that point, from your invasion and drive to Mikoshi. Presumably, he's hoping to push Arasaka into a conflict it can't survive, so that it might burn in the fires of the Fifth Corporate War.

That is my best theory, anyway. Am I onto something, or missing some crucial detail? And what's REALLY up with that whole Yorinobu-NetWatch-Johnny Silverhand deal in the first place?

[Vela Darney]

I disagree with one point: Yorinobu wanting to murder Hanako. I don't think that's what he wants at all. He easily could have disposed of her when he was leading the strike team to retrieve her after the parade, and pinned it on Takemura and V. Or maybe only Takemura, painting him as a disgraced ex-bodyguard out for revenge and taking it out on the people he blamed for his downfall: the Arasaka family. Yorinobu and his sister always were close, they even kept in contact during his Steel Dragons phase and she was the one who begged their father to let Yorinobu return to the family. He didn't want her dead - he wanted her out. But since she's too brainwashed, my guess is in those scenarios where he didn't die, he'll fly her back to the family compound in Tokyo and keep her under lock and key there.

As for why Yorinobu put Johnny on the chip - well, he at least knew ABOUT Johnny Silverhand, and he'd have known they shared at least their hatred of everything Arasaka. So maybe he put him on the chip hoping that if Netwatch indeed managed to lure Alt using Johnny's engram, she - being as powerful as she is - would turn the tables on them, free Johnny and set him loose on the Net. And that Johnny would cause the same kind of havoc in cyberspace as he'd been causing in the real world 50 years earlier. Or that maybe Johnny would convince Alt to destroy Mikoshi and help her with it (he definitely hates Mikohsi with a passion). Who knows? I mean, imagine this: Netwatch taken out by Alt. The Black Wall broken. All those wild AIs from beyond loose on the Net. That most definitely would destroy a lot MORE than just Arasaka ...

[BlackDragon]

Perhaps, but just to clarify... Yorinobu is ABSOLUTELY trying to kill Hanako, and in most endings, SUCCEEDS. If you talk to her during the final meeting, she'll even say as much - that the 'rescue-team' that came for her after the kidnapping indeed was trying to kill her, and it was only thanks to Takemura that she survived. More importantly, during the Aldecaldos ending, you can hear a radio-report stating that Hanako has been reported dead, slain during the attack on Arasaka HQ. And of course, you know that she was nowhere near the incident - in other words, Yorinobu just used the incident as cover for offing his older sister.

I don't think he hated her. I just think that he saw her demise as necessary. Her entire mission in life was to be the 'heart' of Arasaka, holding it together - the exact opposite of what he's trying to do. It's also likely that, even without V, she would've tried to retake control of the company using her father's engram - sooner or later. Only, without V, she would neither succeed nor survive.

[Darkaiser]

My thoughts:

1) Yorinobu always hated what his father had done with Arasaka. He broke from the family to form the Steel Dragons, a group who, in the CP 2020 lore, was pretty much dedicated to tearing down Arasaka. However, after years of striking and losing, I think he decided to take Arasaka down from the inside. He appealed to his sister who supported his return. He had to bide his time, trying not to make too many waves to draw daddy's ire and yet not getting so dirty that he can't look at himself in the mirror. He uncovered the Johnny Silverhand engram, and his father's plans for the Immortality chips, and decided that he had to do something.

2) The conversation with Hellman in his condo tells us that he's not really concerned about problems with the experimental chips. I'm thinking that he WANTS them to fail to shake the faith the rich and powerful have in the immortality chip. He suspects (at least I would if I were him) that Saburo plans to get the rich and elite under his thumb with the new immortality chips to gain ultimate power for Arasaka. If another person holds the strings to your soul, you'll do ANYTHING to stay alive.

3) As has been stated above, I think Yorinobu wanted to try and use Johnny's engram to trade to Netwatch. They'd get something to bait Alt with and Yorinobu would know that Johnny was once again attacking his father, even from the electronic grave. It was a thumb in the eye to his father as well as a swap to Netwatch.

4) Netwatch is terrified that the Black Wall might come down someday. They likely suspect that Alt could be a big part of that so they want to take her out. In exchange for Johnny's engram, they likely tell Yorinobu that they'll support him when he makes his move. This might be long-game as Yorinobu might wait for his father to actually die. Netwatch might insist on this clause in the deal out of fear of the old man. However, the Voodoo Boys and other radical AIs might not wait. I think that's why Yorinobu was pushed to kill his father...the theft of the new chip had angered Saburo to the point that he was going to puch Yorinobu out or at least render him harmless. This would have killed any deals with Netwatch.

5) Hanako would likely support some of this because as she stated to V, her father was not perfect. He took out enemies all his life without mercy. If he died naturally and Yorinobu had a peaceful transition to power, she would likely support him. She would only have to be dealt with when the real plan was revealed and Yorinobu began to tear Arasaka apart from the inside. I suspect that Adam Smasher was tasked for this since his utter lack of humanity means that he'll crush puppies and kittens if told to.

[ZyF]

Yorinobu's actions and motivations are completely nonsensical. If he'd wanted to destroy Arusaka from within, all he had to do, as the heir apparent, was to either wait for his father to die, or as happened in the game, commit patricide. Once he assumes control of the company, he can simply order the Arusaka be dissolved and its assets liquidated.

There's no need to bother with all this Silverhand engram, Netwatch, etc... nonesense. A plain old assassination would've more than sufficed.

Of course, he doesn't do any of this after assuming control but instead moves to mobilize against Militech instead. Is he trying to bring down Militech as well? Does he aim to topple all Corps?

If he's simply anti-business, why not just defect to the USSR which apparently exists in this universe?

[Graf Erik]

While I have no proof for this, my guess regarding the first point is: It was the Vodoo Boys that tricked Yorinobu to get Johnnies engram. No idea how though.

Yorinobu wanted to leak the relic tech to NetWatch... mostly to harm Arasaka, and his father. The VB knew that, they later send out Evelyn to check where he's hiding it, but they already knew he had it, and it had the Silverhand engram which they needed, so they clearly infiltrated his communication.

Netwatch on the otherhand wanted to have the relic, 'a sample biochip with a valid engram', they had no interest in Silverhand.
Funnily enough, Evelyn tries to sell the relic to... NetWatch! And she was expecting them to be super thrilled about that offer, lol. Instead they were just stalling her. They were about to get the relic from Yori himself, probably for free. Just imagine: The Heist works propperly, Evelyn gets the relic, goes to NetWatch. NetWatch: Huh? Oh yeah. Nice, I guess. I'll give you 1000 eddies.

I simply wont buy that its just coincidence that Yori took the Silverhand engram just when the VBs were needing it.

[BlackDragon]

Originally posted by ZyF:

Yorinobu's actions and motivations are completely nonsensical. If he'd wanted to destroy Arusaka from within, all he had to do, as the heir apparent, was to either wait for his father to die, or as happened in the game, commit patricide. Once he assumes control of the company, he can simply order the Arusaka be dissolved and its assets liquidated.

There's no need to bother with all this Silverhand engram, Netwatch, etc... nonesense. A plain old assassination would've more than sufficed.

Just need to address this... there's no way that kind of simplistic plan would've worked. No man rules alone, not even the most vicious of autocrats. Everyone needs SOMEONE to support them, even if it's just a small cadre of self-interested bigwigs. In other words, Arasaka has a BOARD. Saburo was able to keep them in line through fear, but Yorinobu wouldn't have the same kind of absolute control. If he started doing something that would OBVIOUSLY lead to the downfall of Arasaka, such as ordering it dissolved, the board would turn on him in a nanosecond and either unseat or assassinate him. Even if he eliminated them - as indeed he seems ready to do in the Devil ending - there are others, further down, that would need to accept his orders and carry them out. Basically, if your ruler starts to act like he's trying to destroy the kingdom that you rely on for a food, safety and comfort, you're unlikely to acknowledge his authority.

Hence, if he really wanted to destroy Arasaka, he'd need to do it in a smarter way, by taking a course of action that, at least, a decent segment of the company would be willing to support for their own reasons - even if it is ultimately self-destructive. Hence why he'd set himself up as the leader of the 'hawks' of Arasaka, knowing that they'd be likely to support a call to war - and believe him when he tells them that they can WIN that war. By the time they realize that Yorinobu is sabotaging their efforts from within, it'll be too late to stop the inevitable decline - Miltech certainly won't hesitate once they smell blood in the water.

...but that's just my two cents, of course.

[ZyF]

Originally posted by BlackDragon:

Originally posted by ZyF:

Yorinobu's actions and motivations are completely nonsensical. If he'd wanted to destroy Arusaka from within, all he had to do, as the heir apparent, was to either wait for his father to die, or as happened in the game, commit patricide. Once he assumes control of the company, he can simply order the Arusaka be dissolved and its assets liquidated.

There's no need to bother with all this Silverhand engram, Netwatch, etc... nonesense. A plain old assassination would've more than sufficed.

Just need to address this... there's no way that kind of simplistic plan would've worked. No man rules alone, not even the most vicious of autocrats. Everyone needs SOMEONE to support them, even if it's just a small cadre of self-interested bigwigs. In other words, Arasaka has a BOARD. Saburo was able to keep them in line through fear, but Yorinobu wouldn't have the same kind of absolute control. If he started doing something that would OBVIOUSLY lead to the downfall of Arasaka, such as ordering it dissolved, the board would turn on him in a nanosecond and either unseat or assassinate him. Even if he eliminated them - as indeed he seems ready to do in the Devil ending - there are others, further down, that would need to accept his orders and carry them out. Basically, if your ruler starts to act like he's trying to destroy the kingdom that you rely on for a food, safety and comfort, you're unlikely to acknowledge his authority.

Hence, if he really wanted to destroy Arasaka, he'd need to do it in a smarter way, by taking a course of action that, at least, a decent segment of the company would be willing to support for their own reasons - even if it is ultimately self-destructive. Hence why he'd set himself up as the leader of the 'hawks' of Arasaka, knowing that they'd be likely to support a call to war - and believe him when he tells them that they can WIN that war. By the time they realize that Yorinobu is sabotaging their efforts from within, it'll be too late to stop the inevitable decline - Miltech certainly won't hesitate once they smell blood in the water.

...but that's just my two cents, of course.

Yes, there is a board but I think we can infer the degree of control Saburo, and in turn Yori, had over Arusaka by the fact that the former was widely refered to as "the emperor" and the latter "the heir." Shares in a company can be inherited but positions in a company are not. The fact Yori outright inherited his father's post suggests he personally controls enough shares (probably a majority or close to it) that he needn't worry about board opposition. Otherwise, I don't see how a board would've gone along with him as the new head given his very Anti-Arusaka/Corp views in the past.

[Darkaiser]

Originally posted by ZyF:

Originally posted by BlackDragon:

Just need to address this... there's no way that kind of simplistic plan would've worked. No man rules alone, not even the most vicious of autocrats. Everyone needs SOMEONE to support them, even if it's just a small cadre of self-interested bigwigs. In other words, Arasaka has a BOARD. Saburo was able to keep them in line through fear, but Yorinobu wouldn't have the same kind of absolute control. If he started doing something that would OBVIOUSLY lead to the downfall of Arasaka, such as ordering it dissolved, the board would turn on him in a nanosecond and either unseat or assassinate him. Even if he eliminated them - as indeed he seems ready to do in the Devil ending - there are others, further down, that would need to accept his orders and carry them out. Basically, if your ruler starts to act like he's trying to destroy the kingdom that you rely on for a food, safety and comfort, you're unlikely to acknowledge his authority.

Hence, if he really wanted to destroy Arasaka, he'd need to do it in a smarter way, by taking a course of action that, at least, a decent segment of the company would be willing to support for their own reasons - even if it is ultimately self-destructive. Hence why he'd set himself up as the leader of the 'hawks' of Arasaka, knowing that they'd be likely to support a call to war - and believe him when he tells them that they can WIN that war. By the time they realize that Yorinobu is sabotaging their efforts from within, it'll be too late to stop the inevitable decline - Miltech certainly won't hesitate once they smell blood in the water.

...but that's just my two cents, of course.

Yes, there is a board but I think we can infer the degree of control Saburo, and in turn Yori, had over Arusaka by the fact that the former was widely refered to as "the emperor" and the latter "the heir." Shares in a company can be inherited but positions in a company are not. The fact Yori outright inherited his father's post suggests he personally controls enough shares (probably a majority or close to it) that he needn't worry about board opposition. Otherwise, I don't see how a board would've gone along with him as the new head given his very Anti-Arusaka/Corp views in the past.

Saburo Arasaka was, in Takamura's own words, 'the strongest man I've ever known.' Yori didn't have a tenth of the old man's strength, personality, or brains. Jackie said it once 'the million-eddie name and zero talent to back it up.' Yorinobu was a trust-fund baby, soft and immature. If he'd taken over (whether now or in the future) and started breaking up Arasaka, the board and Hanako would have ousted him in a nano.

[Vela Darney]

Originally posted by BlackDragon:

Perhaps, but just to clarify... Yorinobu is ABSOLUTELY trying to kill Hanako, and in most endings, SUCCEEDS. If you talk to her during the final meeting, she'll even say as much - that the 'rescue-team' that came for her after the kidnapping indeed was trying to kill her, and it was only thanks to Takemura that she survived. More importantly, during the Aldecaldos ending, you can hear a radio-report stating that Hanako has been reported dead, slain during the attack on Arasaka HQ. And of course, you know that she was nowhere near the incident - in other words, Yorinobu just used the incident as cover for offing his older sister.

Do we indeed know she was nowhere near? Do we know she didn't mobilize her own loyal pawns to get her from 'Saka Estate and take her to the board meeting, even without V? (She was leading one of the two factions within Arasaka at that point, after all - you think they'd just have rolled over on their backs and given up cos she was locked up in a house they totally had the manpower to get her out of?)

She doesn't seem like the type to give up just because her plan A wasn't working - on the contrary, she strikes me as smart enough to always have a plan B, so she probably had come up with a possible scenario where V would NOT work with her. For all we know, both her and Yorinobu might have been upstairs at that board meeting when V started wreaking havoc downstairs. Who knows what went on up there, who might have taken advantage of the situation?

Do we even know they didn't lie about Hanako being dead? Did anyone actually see the body? Anyone besides Yorinobu, that is. The only thing we can say about Arasaka with any certainty is that they lie and lie and lie. With everyone assuming Hanako to be dead, of course no one would be looking for her so it would be even easier to keep her under lock and key somewhere. Or maybe she faked her own death so she could retreat and make new plans on how to seize power back from Yorinobu? Or maybe he finally convinced her to get out, leave the family, and they both faked her death so she could start over somewhere else? (Plastic surgery to change your look completely isn't a big thing anymore in 2077. I mean, you can turn yourself into a human-cat hybrid or something, so changing your face really isn't a big deal.)

All speculation, of course.

[BlackDragon]

Ah, now, this is a good point. Unfortunately, most of the clues we have about what Yorinobu intends to do post-game - in the endings where he isn't directly defeated, that is - come from news-reports rather than any kind of inside source. Which is why all we can do is speculate, of course...

That being said, I do indeed find it probable that Hanako would have tried to pull off the plot she runs in the Devil-ending, with or without V. And if you have, up to this point, saved both Takemura and Oda, she has some decent cards on her hand with which to attempt it - though, it IS worth pointing out that the 'faction' within Arasaka she controls is the 'doves', who must be assumed to be less inclined towards and capable of the kind of 'direct action' it would take to spring her from house arrest than Yorinobu's hawks would be.

So, yes, it is entirely possible that no matter which path you choose, Hanako goes ahead with confronting the board and then gets caught in the crossfire when Yorinobu - who, as previously stated, wouldn't have been able to keep the board in line the same way his father did - tries to wipe them out. Her blood is still ultimately on his hands, but as an unintentional consequence of solidifying his power, rather than the deliberate murder of his beloved sister. Still, there's no way to know. We cannot, after all, forget the fact that Hanako herself stated that she suspected that he was trying to kill her. I doubt she'd reach such a conclusion lightly, and considering her position at the time and plans going forwards, there was little reason for her to lie about that detail.

[Vela Darney]

Or - the reason why she might have lied to V about Yorinobu trying to kill her might have been to solidify Yorinobu's image as villain in V's head (who, after all, already saw him in a bad light cos they'd witnessed him killing his father) ... just to make sure V wouldn't reconsider or, as they say, smell a rat until it was too late and Yorinobu was defeated.

Just my two cents. Don't trust Hanako at all. (Ironically, I do trust Johnny, the guy with the inaccurate memories, a lot more ... at least, he seems to be honest about SOME stuff whereas, with Hanako, it's all smoke and mirrors.)