Bit of a hot take opinion: but cyberpunk 2077's story... kinda sucks. (Long)

[Nexus]

Now hear me out.

When I say it sucks, I mean more so as a narrative whole. It has great acting, great story beats, great individual side story's, but when you look at it as a lump sum... it really just... falls apart.

Let's break it down

You start the game as V. Basically a nobody with no friends, no relatives, very little information aside from small tidbits of life path stuff that doesn't even really ever come up again aside from like one side mission with the most miniscule story to it possible.

Yes, I get that this is done so the players can imprint onto V. However... it really just doesn't work. V is clearly their own character. They have a distinct personality, tone, voice, everything. You can't chose that. Yet it's all so surface deep that it makes them very... awkward. the devs wanted him to be his own character yet also wanted the silent protagonist players could picture themselves on. It just doesn't really work. That's one of the key problems with V as a character which kind of leads into future problems that ill get to in a bit.

you then meet Jackie. (Or if your a corpo then V just knows them from... somewhere. It's never explained how or why to my knowledge.) Jackie acts as your introductory character. The one that basically is your guide to the world you ad the player have now been dropped into. Now V and Jackie have been friends for about half a year before act 1 takes place. Which is great. He seems like a cool character. Can't wait to get to know him more.

...

Yeah, no. You get like three missions with him not counting the prologue before he just ups and dies cause he's no longer helpful on the plot road of who the devs actually want to get in the spotlight. That's it.

Three missions and a side mission for his funeral Is all you get to grow with this character who is supposedly your best and only true friend in night city. Basically the closest thing you have to a family. A brother. He's dead. Gone. Shutup and enjoy Keanu.

This is the second major problem cyberpunk has. It's heavy use of characters as plot devices and little more. Jackie is just the first in the long line of them. Characters that are used as nothing but a bridge from point A to point B in the story before getting unceremoniously killed.

Anyway, by now you have probably finished the heist. The great turning point for V. You just robbed the heir to the arasaka empire, the one that murdered their father before your very eyes. All while under the gaze of night city's very own nightmare come to life, Adam smasher. Now you may be wondering: "oh my God, why'd he do that? Why don't they get along? What's yorinobus plans? Who's this smasher guy? Your telling me we have to run away from him constantly chasing us?"

Answers:

- daddy issues.
- we don't care, you put it together from the very vague clues we give you.
- that's it. You saw the entirety of his plan. No real greater goal, no real apparent motive. Just proceed buisness as usual.
- he's the guy who killed a bunch of people and if you watched edgerunners he also killed your waifu.
- you see him like twice from this moment on, one is only If your paying attention and the other is at the end of the game.

See where I'm going with this? It's another massive case of wasted potential and characters being used as nothing but plot bridges.

Imagine if you were constantly on the run. Doing everything in your power to avoid running into the mechanical monster hunting you down. Avoiding death by the skin of your teeth. Smasher as an ever looming threat behind you. Sure there would be difficulties keeping him being this ever threatening force but still. There's a balance possible that allows the player to interact and see smasher while also having him remain as this ever threatening force. Yet cdpr just kinda opted the route of... yeah he doesn't exist anymore. That'll keep him threatening and mysterious, right?

No. It just makes him feel like nothing. No more special then the robot that fell from the ceiling in the end of the heist mission.

And then there's yorinobu... man. They did his character so dirty.

Cause when you read deep down into it, you learn that he's actually not an entirely bad guy. He's basically just Johnny but if Johnny chose the corpo life path. He hates arasaka almost as much as Johnny does but... he's just... again, relegated to nothing despite causing one of the biggest events in the game and in the cyberpunk history books in general.

You see him twice in person. Heist and ending. That's it. You don't learn anything about his motivations, aspirations, goals... nothing. It would of been awesome if we could join him and smasher in an effort to turn arasaka into something good but... I digress. If you actually want to see the true missed potential of yorinobu arasaka, I'd recommend the video by Sam Bram "yorinobu is the hidden hero of cyberpunk"

oh yeah also T-bug dies despite being hinted at to be a form of mini antagonist in the trailers but rip, whatever, she's gone now to.

Also, dex? The guy that kicked off the whole heist mission? The one that shot you in the head thus causing this whole race against the clock to find a cure? Him and his body guard that were also hinted at being some sort of big bad mini antagonist to the story with all his shady dealings while on the run for unknown reasons?

Yeah he's dead to. Same sequence that follows the heist. That's like... four for four. Or five. I've lost cound honestly and I don't care about keeping it since the studio didn't care about their characters anyway.

So what pray tell are you left with?

Johnny... ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥... silverhand.

Oh.

Boy.

Here we go.

This entire game feels like the devs wanted to make a game about Johnny silverhand or one of the OG's from the original RPG, yet realized most of them were either dead or already had their story's told. So they came up with some contrived bs reason to bring them back and set sail for adventure yet again to... Basically retell the same story and blow up arasaka tower. Except this time your playing as some rando who is really just along for the ride in this whole game.

This isn't V's story. This is a continuation of Johnny's story with the occasional side episode of V going on their solo adventures.

Everything you do is done for, caused by, either directly or indirectly by Johnny.

Smasher? Thats Johnny's beef.

Rogue? Johnny's ex.

Alt? Johnny's ex 2: blackwall boogaloo.

Arasaka? Again. Johnny wants to blow them up so you're kinda roped into it.

Really, phantom liberty is the only part of the story that feels like it's V and not Johnny in the spotlight but even then he still feels like a backseat to wither Johnny or songbird. The main character, the protagonist, the guy you play as, is really nothing but a chauffeur to everyone else's story but his own.

The entire time I played I couldn't help but feel like I was just being used by everyone. At first I figured "well I guess it makes sense that everyone in this dystopia only sees me as a tool" but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that, no wait, that's all V is in general not just to the characters in the game but to the game studio itself.

V really has no agency other then to just not die. Nobody they're doing it for, no real goals after, they're just there for the ride.

I could go more in depth into the story but this post is already obscenely long and you get pretty much the entire gyst of the game just by act 1 alone

This is why V needs another game. Be it as the protagonist in Orion or some other medium. Their story isn't done. It hasn't even started. Same can be said about so many other characters in this really shallow narrative that speaks so much but really says so little.

TL;DR, characters are horribly managed and often tossed aside once their usefulness has expired, V is an identity crisis of a protagonist trying to be nothing and something at the same time, and said protagonist is nothing but a plot device for Johnny as he is the real main character.

Still a fun game though. Just... best enjoyed in portions and not as one full meal if that makes sense... but that's just my take on it.

[Tokenn]

Is any game going to 'make sense' if you analyse it that deeply? Any movie? Any TV series? I doubt it. Just play the game and enjoy it for what it is. I never saw anybody happier after nitpicking.

[Verios44]

I get what your thinking about, but not many story based games offer alot of options for how the story plays out. Closest I can think of is Mass Effect, but that does not work as that game really only has two paths and neither dramatically impact the story. In cyberpunk, if you so choose you can completely reject missions by just walking away and letting it time out.

[Wedge]

Yea haha it's not very good. Then you have Anders fkin HELLman with some super OP tech that basically lets people save in RL giving it away to incredibly bad people the second he's threatened and your goal isn't to splatter his brains all over a wall? It doesn't make a ton of sense in a lot of it.

[Verios44]

Originally posted by Badmanticore:

Yea haha it's not very good. Then you have Anders fkin HELLman with some super OP tech that basically lets people save in RL giving it away to incredibly bad people the second he's threatened and your goal isn't to splatter his brains all over a wall? It doesn't make a ton of sense in a lot of it.

Sounds like you missed some details.

He is running, fled current employer, so already frazzled. He gives it to V quickly because already threatened with his life and not in the mood to die for the secret. Also hearing about the relic in play is more motivation.

Why would you wnat to splatter the brains of an asset who could possibly help you? Thats counter productive.

You do know what soulkiller actually does? Yes it can save your essence but some bad side effects happen. There is a reason its called soul...KILLER. Your memories and self may live on but who you are does not.

[Wedge]

Because he's already given V the blueprint, told you he can't help you anyway, he's already given other dangerous corps info (kang, chinese) and whoever tf else can get their grubby hands on him can squeeze him easily. Let alone it'd be a little more selfless of V to just get rid of him. You basically get railroaded into leaving him with a saka drone (goro) no ifs and or buts.

Soulkiller shuts down bodily functions while extracting/cloning the consciousness, Depending on what you consider soul or even if you have one it easily could have been called soulwarden. Johnny absolutely still retains who he is, ideals, emotions, thought everything but the body and it's senses,

[EricHVela]

The biggest problem I see is that clues are scattered through multiple playthroughs with different choices... and in a few minor side-story cases, multiple Life Paths.

You want it to make sense. The clues are all there but not always accessible.

Mind you that many of the cagy characters would naturally not just spill out their motives in plain text messages. You have to watch their actions... through the different playthroughs.

The game seemed to expect people to play through many times, but that's an audience who's okay with a fractured story pieced together that way. I find, from my observations, that the majority want the whole story in one sitting, not through required metagaming especially if it requires making choices the player doesn't want to make to discover stuff.

Me? I'm fine with requiring metagaming to learn all parts of the story and do it all the time, but if enough people can't find themselves hooked by the first playthrough, that's on the writers for not making it interesting enough for those players to hunt down those missing beats.

Did CP'77's writers make it interesting enough? For me, sure, but I'm an easy target for that. For others, no and they could be rightly disappointed.

[singleplayer]

Yes, Cyberpunk 2077 is all about Johnny. Sadly, the most fitting ending is suicide. Because Johnny is an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and V is worthless. It's not that I hate bad endings. At least I had to be the main character in the story. Not Johnny.

[EricHVela]

Originally posted by singleplayer:

Yes, Cyberpunk 2077 is all about Johnny. Sadly, the most fitting ending is suicide. Because Johnny is an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and V is worthless. It's not that I hate bad endings. At least I had to be the main character in the story. Not Johnny.

Depends on how you chose V's relationship to Johnny up to the end.

If Johnny's a tapeworm blocking V's success, V's not going to take that lying down and not going to go with Johnny's plan.

If Johnny and V are friends with either of them willing to take a bullet for the other (and one already has), neither will want to end it until there's no hope.

If V's bemoaning the whole mess the whole time, another bullet to the brain is a possibility.

[Vela Darney]

Originally posted by Verios44:

Why would you wnat to splatter the brains of an asset who could possibly help you? Thats counter productive.

Ever heard the term "murder hobo"? That stems from that kind of D&D players who'll slay an entire village for no other reason than "cos we can" or "let's see if we can" or that kind of stuff. Some people just like to let out their inner psychopath when playing games, I guess ...

Originally posted by Nexus:

(snip rant)
Imagine if you were constantly on the run. Doing everything in your power to avoid running into the mechanical monster hunting you down. Avoiding death by the skin of your teeth. Smasher as an ever looming threat behind you.
(snip rant)

Oh hell no. That kinda crap got pretty old already in Resident Evil 2, when you're chased all over the police department by that Mr X thing and can't get rid of him (seriously - I read player were so annoyed by him they just modded him out). When I play a game, I wanna play the game, not keep running from a stupid bossmob I can't get rid of 90% of the time ...

[Phynrae]

Ok, i think i see the problem here... you want V to be a classic protagonist, for V to be "The courier" from New Vegas. The one character who is central to it all, and who's actions get to decide the outcome of it all.

That's not the story of this game.

You are not the Courier in this game, you are the Fledgling from Vampire the masquerade: Bloodlines.


You are an insignificant nobody who finds yourself caught up in a high-stakes political game between powerful entities that you can't hope to defeat. To whom you are nothing more than a pawn. Your role in this game is not to change the world, it is not to defeat the forces of evil, and yours is not the power to change the world. No, your only goal is to try and find a way to survive it, or if failing that, then to atleast leave behind a legacy. To let the world know that you mattered.


No. Adam Smasher shoulden't be hunting you for the whole game, because who are you? You're nobody. Adam Smasher has no clue who you are and coulden't care less about you even if he tried.

Neither could Yorinobu Arasaka. He already found a fall guy for his fathers murder, someone much more important than you: Goro Takamura.


You're right about one thing: V is not the main character of this game. But then neither is Johnny Silverhand. He's just a pawn, just like V is.

"Blew 'Saka towers to smithereens, and it's still standing there just the same". - Johnny Silverhand.


No, the main character of Cyberpunk 2077 is Night City. It is the world that Mike Pondsmith created, in all it's complexity and glory.

V is just the vessel through which you get to glimpse one of the many stories that it has to tell.


If you can wrap your head around this, that V is not actually important, and that the main character is infact the setting itself and not V or Johnny, then you will come to understand why people praise this game for it's story telling.

[valium]

The fledgling comparison is pretty apt, you are rising up through survival until you are in a position to be noticed or do something significant. Which can either be a fizzle, or a loud bang, but Night City will still carry on with or without you.

[Right Clicker]

Kinda have to agree with OP. The fact that after V alleged "offs" the so called Emperor...and is then free to walk Night City unmolested is ridiculous. There should at least be occasional hit squads of Arasaka goons every now and then. Or something. Make it hard.

Furthermore, as much as I like Keanu, I utterly dislike Silverhand the concept and the character. I hate the endless cutscenes where I get prompted to press F just to move the story along. If I'm not going to be given meaningful options, I'd like a skip.

[Phynrae]

Originally posted by Right Clicker:

Kinda have to agree with OP. The fact that after V alleged "offs" the so called Emperor...and is then free to walk Night City unmolested is ridiculous. There should at least be occasional hit squads of Arasaka goons every now and then. Or something. Make it hard.

Didn't pay attention, huh?

The very first mission you get after the heist, after the whole ordeal with waking up in the landfilland all that, is a mission to meet Goro Takemura at Toms Diner.

Here, he flat out tells you why Arasaka isen't hunting you, and it's because they are hunting HIM. Yorninoby Arasaka pinned the entire blame for his father's murder on him, and him alone.

He was chosen to be the fallguy, because he is a threat to Yorinobu Arasaka, he has the connections, the training, and he was Saburo's personal Bodybuard, so his honour demands that he avenge his death, making him a problem that Yorinobu needs to get rid of.


You? You was just home. He has no reason to care about you, no reason to belive that you could even harm him. Taking out Takamura is much more important to him than you could ever be.

[Right Clicker]

Originally posted by Phynrae:

Originally posted by Right Clicker:

Kinda have to agree with OP. The fact that after V alleged "offs" the so called Emperor...and is then free to walk Night City unmolested is ridiculous. There should at least be occasional hit squads of Arasaka goons every now and then. Or something. Make it hard.

Didn't pay attention, huh?

The very first mission you get after the heist, after the whole ordeal with waking up in the landfilland all that, is a mission to meet Goro Takemura at Toms Diner.

Here, he flat out tells you why Arasaka isen't hunting you, and it's because they are hunting HIM. Yorninoby Arasaka pinned the entire blame for his father's murder on him, and him alone.

He was chosen to be the fallguy, because he is a threat to Yorinobu Arasaka, he has the connections, the training, and he was Saburo's personal Bodybuard, so his honour demands that he avenge his death, making him a problem that Yorinobu needs to get rid of.


You? You was just home. He has no reason to care about you, no reason to belive that you could even harm him. Taking out Takamura is much more important to him than you could ever be.

That part doesn't make sense because of the Ward side quest. From that we know that memories can be converted to BD too.

V is a loose end because of what he/she has seen. So yes, on one hand, it's ok for Yori to publicly pin everything on Takemura but only an idiot would still let V live.

Afterall, wasn't it V that ultimately allowed Hanako to bring him down?

[Phynrae]

Originally posted by Right Clicker:

That part doesn't make sense because of the Ward side quest. From that we know that memories can be converted to BD too.

V is a loose end because of what he/she has seen. So yes, on one hand, it's ok for Yori to publicly pin everything on Takemura but only an idiot would still let V live.

Afterall, wasn't it V that ultimately allowed Hanako to bring him down?

And who's V gonna go to? You think you can just march into an NCPD station, and declare "I have evidence that will lead to the arrest of the Emperor of Japan", and that anyone would even listen to you?

Nobody's gonna touch that with a ten foot pole. It would be suicide.


Also, the Arasaka board already knows that Yorinobu is the killer. Nobody actually belives that the old man was poisoned, or that Takamura did it. This is all power politics, the truth doesen't matter. Yorinobu managed a successful coup, he is now the big cheese, and nobody wants to rock the boat, or stick their neck out.

Nobody except perhabs Hannako. V meeting Hannako is the one flaw in Yorinobu's plan, the one thing he did not forsee. But then how could he? That whole story is wild,
It's also only relavent if you do the Devil ending, Yori's plan works out just fine if you do any of the other endings.


We also need to understand the people we're dealing with here. If Saburo Arasaka had still been alive after the heist, then yes, you would have been hunted down for being a lose end, because Saburo was a cold and ruthless man.

Yorinobu isen't. Yorinobu is a rebel with a cause, and that cause is to destroy his fathers corrupt empire. He tried to wage war on Arasaka, and failed, so now he's trying to destroy the corporation from the inside.

In truth, when he learned that two merc's managed to sneak into his penthouse and steal the Relic, his fathers prized tech, that probably made him smile. The guy most likely respects you for it.


I think your desire to have more faction related combat (which you've posted about before) is what's coloring your perception here.