Need to complain about the ending, spoilers for phantom liberty

[StuckInWashingMachine]

Let me start by saying that I really enjoyed this game. It gave me that sort of appeal that I wanted out of an open world FPS that combines elements of immersive Sims, and action.

Gameplay was everything I wanted. Multiple ways to breach buildings, or approach combat. Especially as an aggressive perfectionist stealth build, I found this game to be the most satisfying gameplay wise.

Characters and story services the settings and themes of this game, hell Johnny ended up being a more understanble and a likeable character in the dlc.

I just found all the dlc endings to be terrible. There isn't a single one that is good. I don't mean good as in an ending needs to at least be happy or even hopeful. It almost feels like they're grim just for the sake of being in the cyberpunk genre.

I guess at this point I'll spoil the many of them, but the one that even remotely makes sense is where you free songbird of her torment.
As sad as it might be, she's suffering and she even explains what living is like with the Blackwell ai messing with her head. Sounds like a never ending nightmare from what she describe, constantly running around in circles trying figure out what menories are true to hers, and being forced to be used as a lab puppet for the government? This was the only ending that made sense where you didn't give her back to the president and ended it all.

The other endings where you go with song bird make zero sense. V Thinking that they should trust songbird is out of V's character. I'd at least like to believe that V is not that much of an idiot, and even then, if V is. By the time they get to the moon, the obvious answer is to realize that songbird is not herself and should be handed over to Reed.

But let's get to the worst ending in all of the game. V losing everything. It doesn't make sense to me that V would just neglect the possibility of dissapearing, in fact it also just doesn't seem ethical that the doctors would just neutralize V on the plane ride.

Does V get chance to bring their friends over, or even explain to all their friends where they're going or what mission they're on this time? Hell why doesn't Reed himself go off and tell panam, judy, Victor, and river where their hero has gone off to.

You'd think if you helped Reed save his one and only friend, he'd take responsibility for all the problems that had been arising while V was unconscious.
This ending felt like it was full of plot holes, hell if Reed saw this coming. V losing all their ability to fight. You'd think maybe he'd wake them up, stop the operation and at least given them a choice? Most doctors especially by his words... the best in the country. Know and consider all the risks, and even go over those risks with their patient and ask them if they'll take the operation. Not neutralize them fist thing in the meeting room and start right away. That's so nuts.
Yeah this felt so stupid, and like a rushed ending forcing a bleak grim dark ending for the sake of being true to its genre.
There's nothing in this game at all that illustrates V wanting to go back to being invisible and living a simple life.

Not a cannon ending in my mind.

[galan]

"This ending felt like it was full of plot holes" Totally agree with the points you make about this ending.

Also what happened to V's large amount of money and huge arsenal of weapons. I can accept "no cyberware" but V should still be able to able to fire a gun.

[Faiza, Star Made Knight]

Originally posted by galan:

"This ending felt like it was full of plot holes" Totally agree with the points you make about this ending.

Also what happened to V's large amount of money and huge arsenal of weapons. I can accept "no cyberware" but V should still be able to able to fire a gun.

well considering that rogue shows up in the epilogue with your cat....we can deduce rather quickly where the rest of v's belongings were "donated" to

[Akela]

It's incredible how difficult it is for everyone to accept that there is no good ending. They immediately begin to question the design, the meaning, the canonicity. But Phantom liberty is not the buggy and rushed Cyberpunk release. From moment zero everybody tells you that Night City is a horrible city and you spend the entire game enjoying it but oh! surprise, you don't like the ending, V's "friends" at the end are not so friendly, the couples are not "happy forever", even Johnny's memories are a lie and he is a nobody that corporations used to cover up something bigger. At first it hurts but who warns does not betray.

[Simple Man]

The ending(s) really are nonsensical "sad" gibberish, but not sure on So Mi. Out of character for V is rushing into the corporate stronghold that are Reed, Alex and Myers, you can overhear their talks, how much more evident do you need it to be.

I helped Judy with Pisces, i would have helped Evelyn whether or not game forced my hand, i help Panam Palmer despite being perfectly capable of seeing that they behave like erratic, spoiled 14 year olds that done nothing to deserve it. We save Rivers nephew and (most) those kids, why? its not saving V.

So Mi was a punk kid that got webbed into NUSA and the FIA after a datafort incident with Militech, had been nothing but borged up and abused since the day, more recently forced past the blackwall, hence Myers fears of losing her war toy. Shes sure nobody is caring nor coming, puts up defense mechanisms. The character feels a reflection of Evelyn Parker, desperate and willing to do anything. So Mi still explains everything and that she regrets what shes done to V while apologizing before passing out on that train. If the aim was strictly self serviant, there would surely be nothing eating away at her, and she'd just go, not even look your way.

Before carrying her out of that train, V has the chance to say "you didn't have to lie, would have helped you anyway", and thats certainly true, to my V at least, pointless to generalize. The goal is finding a way to help yourself, but you just spent the last 50 hours helping others as well, don't see how granting So Mi a second chance, helping herself to the neural matrix, away from FIA and with mr. blue eyes all the sudden shatters Vs character. Reinforces it if anything.

[StuckInWashingMachine]

Originally posted by Akela:

It's incredible how difficult it is for everyone to accept that there is no good ending. They immediately begin to question the design, the meaning, the canonicity. But Phantom liberty is not the buggy and rushed Cyberpunk release. From moment zero everybody tells you that Night City is a horrible city and you spend the entire game enjoying it but oh! surprise, you don't like the ending, V's "friends" at the end are not so friendly, the couples are not "happy forever", even Johnny's memories are a lie and he is a nobody that corporations used to cover up something bigger. At first it hurts but who warns does not betray.

believing that medical physicians, quoted from reed, best in the country; are breaking standard medical procedures that are in place today, and Reed leaving V's friends in the dark despite all that she's done for him is consider "difficult" in your book. Then to each their own.

to "You don't like this ending just because V's friends are ♥♥♥♥♥"
You're over simplifying a really long paragraph, so please read the entire thing carefully and respond accordingly. That is not at all why I dislike that trash ending.

[StuckInWashingMachine]

Originally posted by Kodiak.pW:

The ending(s) really are nonsensical "sad" gibberish, but not sure on So Mi. Out of character for V is rushing into the corporate stronghold that are Reed, Alex and Myers, you can overhear their talks, how much more evident do you need it to be.

I helped Judy with Pisces, i would have helped Evelyn whether or not game forced my hand, i help Panam Palmer despite being perfectly capable of seeing that they behave like erratic, spoiled 14 year olds that done nothing to deserve it. We save Rivers nephew and (most) those kids, why? its not saving V.

So Mi was a punk kid that got webbed into NUSA and the FIA after a datafort incident with Militech, had been nothing but borged up and abused since the day, more recently forced past the blackwall, hence Myers fears of losing her war toy. Shes sure nobody is caring nor coming, puts up defense mechanisms. The character feels a reflection of Evelyn Parker, desperate and willing to do anything. So Mi still explains everything and that she regrets what shes done to V while apologizing before passing out on that train. If the aim was strictly self serviant, there would surely be nothing eating away at her, and she'd just go, not even look your way.

Before carrying her out of that train, V has the chance to say "you didn't have to lie, would have helped you anyway", and thats certainly true, to my V at least, pointless to generalize. The goal is finding a way to help yourself, but you just spent the last 50 hours helping others as well, don't see how granting So Mi a second chance, helping herself to the neural matrix, away from FIA and with mr. blue eyes all the sudden shatters Vs character. Reinforces it if anything.

Well maybe I didn't explain myself enough on that ending.
V already knows that So Mi is being possessed by the black wall, we even see in the trailer, and Reed explains to V that So Mi betrayed him once before.

V has only slight reasons to believe that Reed would betray her, in that he killed a pompush, rich billionaire that I personally hated without talking about it being in the mission. But he never once betratyed V, even though he works for an organization that is downright shady.
Still though, you see someone who has a heart in the right place, and even proves his loyalty by coming back to said organization despite all that it has done to him.

That being said though, So Mi isn't really someone to be trusted, and since V already has suspcisions that she took down the plane, and is possessed by the blackwall, and has done terrible things in the past. It would make sense that she would believe that using that Ice breaker would be the better option.

At least in my opinion, yeah V still wants to help So Mi, but it's a matter of V saving Songbird from herself.

To me, it just makes V seem incredibly foolish for her to side with songbird and betray Reed.

[Simple Man]

Originally posted by Kix:

V already knows that So Mi is being possessed by the black wall, we even see in the trailer, and Reed explains to V that So Mi betrayed him once before.

Shes not possessed, but being erased, lost. During one of her memories you can ask if it was her that just saved you from the robot, she will reply that "yes, theres one me saving you, and one me talking to you. Time and space are relative here".

The incursions are eating away at her physical self, and memories are either gone or going. She tries to forge new ones on the spot, at her old apartment you'll get "i'll keep this moment as a memory, back home, a friend at my side". So Mis runnin on empty.

Originally posted by Kix:

V has only slight reasons to believe that Reed would betray her, in that he killed a pompush, rich billionaire that I personally hated. But he never once betratyed V, even though he works for an organization that is downright shady.
Still though, you see someone who has a heart in the right place, and even proves his loyalty by coming back to said organization despite all that it has done to him.

Im not sure overhearing "have her killed" while sending ground troops and attack helicopters to gun you down is what one calls "slight reason to believe". When Reed learns that you heard the conversation with Myers, response is "you heard that did you? but thats changed now". It happened 3 minutes ago, nothing changed, they just want their WMD back, and if they can't, nobody is getting her either.

Originally posted by Kix:

That being said though, So Mi isn't really someone to be trusted, and since V already has suspcisions that she took down the plane, and is possessed by the blackwall. It would make sense that she would believe that using that Ice breaker would be the better option.

At least in my opinion, yeah V still wants to help So Mi, but it's a matter of V saving Songbird from herself.

To me, it just makes V seem incredibly foolish for her to side with songbird and betray Reed.

I don't remember questioning the plane crash until much later on, and it was Songbird that told me about working with Hansen, who we later find out was the one that shot the missile. Foolish is probably betraying her at any point post starting the DLC, if thats my intent i rather not play the DLC, you can let Myers die and it just ends. Nobody gets help.

If aided, Songbird leaves a secret holo message for you that reads something like "im scared but i need to trust you, and i do. If you're watching this, i was also right to". Like i mentioned, it really just reinforces who (my) V is, largely selfless throughout, even went back to save the Arasaka loyalist.

[Simple Man]

Originally posted by Don't:

snip

You could write a whole book on the inconsistencies of the base game as well, half of whats going on makes little to no sense. The discussion is more on what was delivered, best to have it that way too.

[Sentient_Toaster]

The big plot hole is leaving V alive after he's no longer useful and is purely a liability to NUSA, after showing that the FIA routinely eliminates such. If anything, the ending is rather overly generous.

[StuckInWashingMachine]

Originally posted by Kodiak.pW:

Originally posted by Don't:

snip

You could write a whole book on the inconsistencies of the base game as well, half of whats going on makes little to no sense. The discussion is more on what was delivered, best to have it that way too.

I'm a little confused. What major writing inconsistencies are in the base game?
The base main story itself is rather straight forward. Can't think of too many plot holes in the base game.
Maybe you found some Knotts In a Side quest, but that's a little different

[Silverbane7]

The one thing Corpos are good at, is knowing the value of what's in front of them.

V is prime real estate.
Depending on if you just bust your jets right into phantom liberty with a new file, or go the slower way via new characters playing till the dlc starts, V can be an amazing asset to Myers mind.

V may be chromed to the gills like SoMi, or more conservative like Songbird (the visual difference between the physical version that is SoMi and the digital version that's Songbird I mean. She even comments about the visible difference between them, so I considered them two sightly different versions of the same person) but V is a superior asset, if they could be gained.

Myers does not know at first, just how deep a hole V is in. Nor that its getting deeper every day. So her initial plan will be to have V help her, then offer to help V (and thus, have V beholden to Myers and the NUsa/MiliTech)

Later, Myers will realise that V is also dying, just like SoMi. But V's issue does not (as yet) involve the Blackwall, so she probably figures she can still manipulate V into working for her.

Then, when things become clear, Myers will probably decide that V with all their cyberware and abilities is dangerous. But, you don't get to be CEO or President of a country by throwing away useful assets.
V knows many dirty little secrets of Myer's. First and formost, that she's been using the Blackwall.

But V is also skilled outside of cyberware (unless you are a full in Netrunner, but skilled netrunners are more than just their cyberdeck lol) skills that can be transferred or trained.

'Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach' is an old saying.

Myers is probably planning to make V a trainer, like Reed will be. Can't have V running about out there with what they know any more than she can have Reed doing.
Desk jobs and collars all round, I'm afraid.

( to qote Johnny....."Clink.....that's the sound of her attaching a leash to your neck")

Thing is..... In Myers mind, V does not need their cyberware to teach.
It's knowledge, instinct and maybe a sixth sense that's what V has. V can teach their knowledge, and use their instincts and sense to train new agents and find new agents.
No need to let a dangerous asset have access to things like cyberware, right?

How do you make sure someone like V does what you want?
Easy.
You force them into the path you want them to take, while allowing them to belive THEY chose it.

(Except the writers never wanted the player to be able to choose to stay away from NC, to take the desk job from the start. Wanted us the players to have to go home to NightCity and SEE V become an npc, just....like...them.... At least, that's my personal take on why they won't let you pick the desk job. We, the players, wanted a 'happy' ending. We nagged, we begged, we yelled. But i don't think they understand that you can have a happy ending without it being a given quantity of 'happy' lol. They just kept seeing 'I want V to LIVE!' so they gave us that. Bare, naked survival.)

So, the way I see it, the Tower ending is the way it is (from Myer's reasoning) because she wants V neutered. A dangerous asset that's a double edged sword. She's already got SoMi for that. Does not need another.

V was never meant to make it out of the operations with their old life intact.
Remove their cyberware, cripple them, make them physically weak, but leave their mind and instincts intact, to be used to find new agents and train them.

(Use an external cyberdeck if they were Netrunner V, one that's constantly monitored for anything they don't want V to be able to do)

Myers gets a valuable worker who is indebted to her.
By removing all V's old friends, lovers, contacts, you remove another crutch that V could use to get back on their feet in NC.

By removing all V's chrome, and blocking V's ability to use anything internally, she blocks any sideways growth V could use to get stronger, thus protecting Myer's from V, should V ether find out what was done to them, or suffer a later attack of conscience and wish to stop Myers.

(Yes, there used to be stuff called bioware, organic cyberware style stuff. I expect its prohibitively expensive, and probably also blocked from V in this ending. Myers is not dumb enough to let that option slip by her. She's a chess player when it comes to these things, 3 moves ahead)

Its just a shame they never let the player choose to stay away from returning to NC, it might feel less of a sucker punch if you could call your old friends up first, and find they all thought you flatlined. Then, choose to stay where you were instead of taking a risk and going back to Vik.

(Also, Rogue bought Nibbles anonymously. They auctioned your stuff, including your stash , vehicles and apartments lol. Seems direct debit's not a thing in cyberpunk anymore. Used to be able to set up recurring payments for stuff like rent and internet ect, so long as there were edds in your account. Not now, it seems. Hell, maybe the NUsa took all your money out your account so this exact thing would happen.... *tinfoil hat wearing intensifies* lol)

[Akela]

Originally posted by Kix:

Originally posted by Akela:

It's incredible how difficult it is for everyone to accept that there is no good ending. They immediately begin to question the design, the meaning, the canonicity. But Phantom liberty is not the buggy and rushed Cyberpunk release. From moment zero everybody tells you that Night City is a horrible city and you spend the entire game enjoying it but oh! surprise, you don't like the ending, V's "friends" at the end are not so friendly, the couples are not "happy forever", even Johnny's memories are a lie and he is a nobody that corporations used to cover up something bigger. At first it hurts but who warns does not betray.

believing that medical physicians, quoted from reed, best in the country; are breaking standard medical procedures that are in place today, and Reed leaving V's friends in the dark despite all that she's done for him is consider "difficult" in your book. Then to each their own.

to "You don't like this ending just because V's friends are ♥♥♥♥♥"
You're over simplifying a really long paragraph, so please read the entire thing carefully and respond accordingly. That is not at all why I dislike that trash ending.

Of course I'm oversimplifying but that's because you're overcomplicating and that proves my point. Every argument you give is a bible so an answer requires another enormous amount of text and I'm not going to make the joke about "too much text", I'm not making fun, that's exactly what I'm saying, you didn't like the ending and you're looking for the hair to the egg when precisely the story in general is about taking what you have because there will be no more, "style over substance." The best doctors, the worst doctors, things would have ended more or less the same. In the ending of Arasaka, the company that created the Relic, the ending is worse because in the game Arasaka is the devil and it doesn't matter that the doctors are practically capable of doing the same thing as god. The game is not perfect, nor is the story and it never will be.

[StuckInWashingMachine]

Originally posted by Akela:

Originally posted by Kix:

believing that medical physicians, quoted from reed, best in the country; are breaking standard medical procedures that are in place today, and Reed leaving V's friends in the dark despite all that she's done for him is consider "difficult" in your book. Then to each their own.

to "You don't like this ending just because V's friends are ♥♥♥♥♥"
You're over simplifying a really long paragraph, so please read the entire thing carefully and respond accordingly. That is not at all why I dislike that trash ending.

Of course I'm oversimplifying but that's because you're overcomplicating and that proves my point. Every argument you give is a bible so an answer requires another enormous amount of text and I'm not going to make the joke about "too much text", I'm not making fun, that's exactly what I'm saying, you didn't like the ending and you're looking for the hair to the egg when precisely the story in general is about taking what you have because there will be no more, "style over substance." The best doctors, the worst doctors, things would have ended more or less the same. In the ending of Arasaka, the company that created the Relic, the ending is worse because in the game Arasaka is the devil and it doesn't matter that the doctors are practically capable of doing the same thing as god. The game is not perfect, nor is the story and it never will be.

If anything that particular point is only 2 sentences, the OP is long because I'm summarizing parts of the story.

[Akela]

Originally posted by Akela:

I'm not making fun, that's exactly what I'm saying, you didn't like the ending and you're looking for the hair to the egg when precisely the story in general is about taking what you have because there will be no more, "style over substance."

[StuckInWashingMachine]

Originally posted by Akela:

Originally posted by Akela:

I'm not making fun, that's exactly what I'm saying, you didn't like the ending and you're looking for the hair to the egg when precisely the story in general is about taking what you have because there will be no more, "style over substance."

Whatever point you pull out of your butt to give brownie points to this ending still losses all its substance due to plot holes and lazy inconsistent writing.
Anyways I already said this in the op. Good talk.