Arasaka Ending Is The Best (Spoilers)

[BLOOD ASYLUM]

Let me get this out of the way first. This is one of Keanu's best performances, really. This is a long one.

Arasaka becoming more powerful isn't something in your control. It never was. They were always at war with Militech. The chip is killing you, and Johnny IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. Throughout the game Johnny is belittling, cut throat, deceiving. In the mission where you meet his Samurai Fan, Johnny plays the hip card, dogs his fan for living in 2020. Johnny constantly talks about wanting change and to bring it by force.

Pay attention to this. Johnny is full of ♥♥♥♥. He constantly wants to take over V's body to relive past glories, samurai, rogue, party and bar fights, drinking. Even his plan is a 3RD ATTACK on Arasaka tower with Rogue. Johnny reneges on a promise he makes to the player earlier on, that when the time comes he will accept being wiped. When the time does come, he angrily tries to persuade V NOT TO wipe him. Claiming that V is a coward, and attempts to manipulate his promise by twisting V's words. Much like Johnny did to Kerry, Johnny calls you a coward before dying again. V may return to earth with 6 months to live, or live in a digital space.

It does not make sense to include the nomads on the arasaka assault. They are already on Militech's list, and to put them on Arasaka's ensures their future death. It does not make sense to put your love interest in harms way. I've read this is the best ending, V still ends up terminal like the Arasaka ending. To me this sounds like the lazy ending, like the team needed the fantasy ending to please people. Nothing about this choice makes sense. This ending is disapointing, it's too happy.

I hope the next game, or DLC, will be about the Corporate World War 2. What did you guys think?

[Meganob]

The Arasaka ending COULD have been the best one, if you could shoot Yorinobu and then Hanako toward the end, fight your way back down - possibly having to deal with Takemura and Oda while at it, and do the secret ending essentially, except by blowing up Mikoshi instead of hooking into it, because screw Alt as well but hindsight is 20/20.

[n0mad23]

I think there's a deliberate lack of resolution in most of the endings. Sure V has 6 months to live, but there's a chance options might arise to change that outcome.

The only one that really felt bleak to me was the Arasaka one. Becoming property of the corp just didn't sit well with me at all.

[n0mad23]

Publicado originalmente por Heavens Blade:

Publicado originalmente por n0mad23:

I think there's a deliberate lack of resolution in most of the endings. Sure V has 6 months to live, but there's a chance options might arise to change that outcome.

The only one that really felt bleak to me was the Arasaka one. Becoming property of the corp just didn't sit well with me at all.

The suicide one is pretty bleak too.

Lol - touche.

Kind of thought that one didn't need saying as that's that. My V hasn't pulled that trigger yet. Can't really imagine doing so either....

[Lλmbdλ]

Publicado originalmente por V:

I saw many people complain about the lack of "choosing" your path and outcome but it actually matters which dialougue options you take.

Absolutely, the choices in the game are more vivid that just "oh if I choose the red option I will be a baddy"
Most players don't even notice they have a choice

[Muscarine]

Publicado originalmente por Heavens Blade:

I want to see all the endings.

I mean though, if you really think about it, all of the endings are bleak.

The original V dies no matter what, and is replaced by a copy of their mind, V at the end isn't the same V from the start of the game.

Without going into the whole Ship of Theseus problematic, there's one difference a lot of people tend to ignore

Alt died because Johnny disconnected her during Soulkiller
Johnny died because Arasaka disconnected him and dumped his body

V, on the other hand, didn't get disconnected from Mikochi

That means what happens is V flatlined during Engram V's trip to Mikochi just like someone would sink in a deep coma.
If you decide to return, essentially what Alt does is updating original V's memories with Engram V's (very short) memories, which then ceases to exist or gets fused with original V, whatever you prefer
Meaning original V doesn't die, she just gets her memories updated

Which isn't really far fetched at all in a world where AIs brainwash people like the Jeffersons by completely rewriting their brain

Even in Temperance original V survives, but she's completely overwritten by Johnny's engram, meaning from a certain point of view it's probably the worst ending for V, she becomes a husk, unless you believe in magic, souls and bearded man in the sky

Long story short, i disagree V dies when connecting to Mikoshi
I also disagree she dies in any of the endings other than suicide and failed solo assault, the writers carefully placed a tone of cues around to let you understand she will survive (for all of you who picked the Star ending, free example : look up Robin birds symbolism)

As long as the connection isn't severed from Soulkiller all that means is that your brain is on write mode
If severed though, it's permanent, followed by brain death and plain death

It's not innocent that the game shows you Johnny mistakenly disconnect Alt when trying to rescue her

Final note, if your Ship of Theseus interpretation means V dies at Mikoshi, then it means she was already dead when Dex shot her in the head and you were already playing V 2.0 reconstructed by the Relic.

[Muscarine]

Publicado originalmente por Heavens Blade:

The ship of Theseus is just a thought experiment, that can't really be applied to a human brain, you are your physicality and we know this because of how people's entire personalities can change from traumatic brain injuries, etc. A human mind isn't the same as a boat.

I mean, i'm glad you managed to solve a 2000+ years old conundrum just like that but i'm afraid it's not that simple
As a matter of fact the examples you use can be used against what you say

Even in a physical context, nothing says you're still the original considering over seven years there's practically no original cells left in you from back then
That's without even going into temporal considerations where nothing says you're the same person reading this answer than the one who wrote the previous comment

The Ship of Theseus asks where does continuity ends, not permanence, although even that ends up being brought into question at the end

Publicado originalmente por Heavens Blade:

I could half agree with your assessment, but Alt specifically states that your body was too far gone/changed, V died, it wasn't so much an update to memories, Alt copied V and reinstalled, so to speak, on faulty hardware after V died.

That is not what she says
She essentially says you body rejects your current version, just like hardware would reject an incorrect version of a software (or drivers if you prefer)
Updating it to Johnny prevents crashing
Restoring it to V means (with a small engram V update) conflicts and ultimately failure (that is if you ignore the rest of the narrative pointing at V surviving)

You're entirely free of your own interpretation, of course, that's also what this game is about, but you're missing some points

edit - ultimately that's also philosophical differences because i'm not going to say you're wrong about V dying to Dex, it's as valid as anything else

I also agree Star + Judy is by far the most positive ending, and i would be curious to know why you think so

[Muscarine]

Alright honestly we should stop this conversation here, because science didn't "solve" this, that's not how science work, science asks questions, elaborates hypothesis, goes through peer reviewing, and catalogues what are considered the most valuable and interesting conclusions

At no point do you get a "solved it" seal of approval, especially not when it comes to something as complex as consciousness and permanence continuity

That's why every year, theories we were taken for granted get shaken because of new discoveries and hypothesis

If you replicate a human being, it would not possess or share the same awareness as the original. /end story

At no point did i insinuate this, you're drawing your own conclusions based on the fact that to you V is a copy

I'm saying she isn't
She's updated just like you would be after a night of sleep and a few dreams

Anyway i don't think we're going to go anywhere so, good talk

[BLOOD ASYLUM]

About time people actually have cool discussion about this game. This game's writing is actually pretty solid, in my opinion.

I still hold the notion, that for V, Arasaka removing his chip is the best. I also believe that V ripping his pendant off when returning to earth, indicates, this is the V that died in the dump, and he is taking back his life.

V including his love interest and rebel family in what could be a 1 way trip is too selfish to endorse. Him letting Johnny live out his suicide fantasy is Johnny just manipulating V. Becoming a product in Arasaka sounds atrocious, but I have humored if going that route would give Alt or Voodoo Boys some sort of access to Arasaka.

As I said earlier Johnny is not your friend.

[Muscarine]

Publicado originalmente por (RH) Chrysagon:

About time people actually have cool discussion about this game. This game's writing is actually pretty solid, in my opinion.

I still hold the notion, that for V, Arasaka removing his chip is the best. I also believe that V ripping his pendant off when returning to earth, indicates, this is the V that died in the dump, and he is taking back his life.

V including his love interest and rebel family in what could be a 1 way trip is too selfish to endorse. Him letting Johnny live out his suicide fantasy is Johnny just manipulating V. Becoming a product in Arasaka sounds atrocious, but I have humored if going that route would give Alt or Voodoo Boys some sort of access to Arasaka.

As I said earlier Johnny is not your friend.

I'm with you on the Arasaka aren't evil boat, although from a morally grey perspective

I also don't understand why so many players buy so easily into Yorinubo being the villain
He fights exactly against exactly what i've read makes people dislike Arasaka as a corporation
Deluded or not, that's another question

I'm also very surprised there's not a lot more talking and speculation about the story and narrative, there is a whole lot more than first meets the eye, and despite Misty's constant handholding it seems barely anyone decided to look further into the matter

If you're interested in digging into CP77's writing and implications, i wrote some posts on different subjects here
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/spoilers-cats-pyramids-and-egyptian-symbolism.11068541/

If you're only interested in Arasaka, that'd be my last post in the thread

Would be curious to know your opinion on that, always interested in hearing people's take on the subject as long as we understand it was deliberately written to be opened to interpretation

[Kerillian]

Publicado originalmente por Empukris:

Johnny didnt lie, he is not deceitful type. If it is within his capability he will return V body and you can tell this from multiple ending. Corpo ending is the bad ending in my opinion even after the fact that you are the sole reason why Hanako survive the even at the final arc. Hanako dont care about V at all and she just consider him as another pawn and throwing yourself as arasaka puppet is the worst that can happen to V. Your only insurance is Goro but Goro will kill V if his master order him to do it. The contract that V sign in the ending sound like a death sentence to me.

The best ending in my opinion is the secret reaper ending. V dream is to become a nightcity legend and he far surpassed Johnny in that ending. I dont like panam ending only because you just sacrifice your family life to extend your life for 6 months. If Im going to die anyway, I might as well become a living legend by killing smasher on my own with 2 shot from a pistol.

Bro what is your pistol secret ?, I used my quasar and 100 to 20% him him 1 charge clips. Also unrelated but Panam doesn't know that she is indirectly responsible for V's failure in the heist because Nash betrayed her and hid the gears away, without the gears, the merc at the afterlife ( other player went eavesdropping npc in the Afterlife during the pre-Heist to find this out) would have infiltrated Arasaka the same day as V and Jackie and gave them some sort of a backup.

[Skelevra]

100 % agree.
I think that the "devil" ending is the best one. The canonic one.


think about it; cyberpunk 2 , they found a new body for V, which one? Create a new character!

[Toaster Maximus]

Star ending is the best in my view, you get to be free and heavily implied you will be seeing people to get a cure.

[Ygolnac]

Arasak ending is the most depressing. Even suiciding on the roof is better. All these days with loneliness and repetitive test, no one giving a ♥♥♥♥ about you and not answering the phone eventually, johnny erased, mikoshi up and running. And the final decision: get compiled and caged into mikoshi or go back in night city like a wreck that nobody cares about and six months to live. Also if V decides to bewcome an engram gives away her human and citizen rights, becoming an Arasaka property. And possibly decades have to pass before a suitable body is found for her.

Those laboratories where she is tested by those cold scientints that show zero empaty for her. She wanted to become a legend and ended up as a lab rat. Also the last scene in third person, her face doesn't look happy. At all.

[kome360]

Publicado originalmente por Good Whiskey:

You know what really bakes my noodle? There is nothing to suggest that you can't copy a Relic 1.0, or indeed a 2.0, which is just an advanced biochip containing both an engram and an enhanced, self-aware personality construct. Which means, if re-implantation is possible, you could theoretically make an army of the same person with no shared consciousness. And because there's no shared consciousness, all of those people would be different people, even though they're the same person.

Actually, there is, but it would involve making a deal with the corporation whose employees you just spent thirty minutes slicing and dicing into tiny pieces. They're not going to re-encode hundreds of stem-cell integrated biochips for their sworn enemies.
Personalities are complex, biologically-entwined entities that require fragile and expensive components to remain connected in some way to the real world, as seen when Johnny's biochip starts disintegrating when exposed to normal air conditions. In a sense, once you go from engram to unshackled AI, being copied is just a matter of storage space, but you permanently lose the biological connections that let you hijack a meat brain. Whether or not it's possible that future technology will patch this issue is irrelevant, because in either case an important part of you - your connection to your biology - is deleted, and is not coming back.

[Savelli]

Hey, I actually quite like the endings, despite the fact that there is no 'happy' one - who the hell would expect in in such a depressing cyberpunk world anyway?

As I see it, the game and its endings are largely about immortality. At the start we get to think about the 'blaze of glory' in the Dex dialogue. That's a form of getting immortality the merc way, 'living' in the memory of others as that legendary guy.

And that's one of the results we get when we raid the space station in the end.

But there are more options, in the other ending we cheat the death by copying our mind at the Arosaka space station.

Or we can let the mind be merged with the AIs in the cyberspace, roaming the net forever afterwards.

So, there are lots of ways to get the immortality for yourself in the end.