Jesus, leave me alone Panam! (spoilers?)

[Its Almost Harvesting Season]

I did the one mission for Rogue that introduces you to Panam, got her car back, got the VIP I needed, done. Then she keeps sending texts and calling about another mission, I go and do that, then another series of texts and another mission about Scorpions funeral and then another text, and then another call to come and talk to her about Saul...

Why is this questline shoved in the players face? I did the mission for Judy and haven't heard from her since we rescued Evelyn. I've barely even heard from Takemura since meeting him at a dock and I'm fairly sure that's the next main mission. Any time I go do another side mission on my list, I'm interrupted by Panam or someone else from the Aldacados. Am I the only person that feels this is a bit excessive compared to other NPC's and allies?

I suppose I'll also mention I'm coming across a LOT of seemingly broken questlines and triggers. I got a mission to go to some coordinates for some reason where there's a guy in a fridge, yet I never received any coordinates from any source. It's just a mission in my journal that activated itself... Is there a list anywhere of recommended progression through missions to avoid skipping/breaking them?

[Tokenn]

With very few minor exceptions, every quest in the game will wait, no matter that your NPC partner tells you 'don't delay', 'don't make me wait', etc. However I agree it's annoying the way Panam's various quests come so quickly, one after another. At least now you can remove them from being active in your Journal. Just don't break off a quest in the middle, or refuse to do them...that can make the quest fail, often with tragic results.

[I Denizen I]

shoved in your face?

She lives in the badlands, you live in the city. Just exactly how do you imagine people interact and ask for assistance from each other?

And once you have spoken to her, that quest will sit there for as long as you like, until you go and start it, so hours, days, weeks, you decide when it progresses.

There are no broken questline triggers and certainly not a high volume of them.

The guy in the fridge is a quest you pick up in the Afterlife, when you go to speak to Rogue and Panam storms out of the booth, there is a guy leaning against the wall opposite the booth entrance.

He gives you the quest to go pick up a package from a freezer in the middle of Tiger Claw territory, you cannot accidentally start this, you have to talk to him and agree to do the job.

You have to pick up quests and or you have to start them after getting them from proximity to the start area (like fixer jobs), the NPC's in the game send you texts or call you to advance the lines you have begun. And Panam has a line of quests, and she is the only female love interest for a male V, and you need to finish her line to have her be your significant other. And more importantly her quests are a story, not just random missions, each mission has repercussions and the next one is dealing with the fallout from the previous mission.

Judy once you have done Evelyns line phones you as often as Panam does, as she just like Panam has a storyline that allows female V's to romance her.

I have 700 hours in this game and have played multiple full length from the start of the game playthroughs, I have never once had a broken quest / trigger, not a single one.

[Silverbane7]

the only Panam questline you HAVE to do *right NOW* is the one she calls you about Saul.
(if it's called 'Riders of the Storm)

everything else can wait

if you want to be rid of Panam, you just have to side with Rogue when she wants to go get revenge, and later side with Saul.
but this will loose you a possible path out of your troubles later on.

there are only a few quests in game that have time limits.
'Riders of the Storm' and 'Happy Together' are the two ones i know. (easier to name them than to describe them, for spoilers)

i had a 200hr save where someone had been waiting for V at a place called 'Embers' for around 180 of those hours XD

[Chrisme]

I'm pretty sure that I delayed the Saul quest for quite some time. It probably only becomes problematic if you actually start it and then decide to run off midway...

Panam doesn't really text you more than other NPCs. Whatever you have done last triggers a telephone message or call a few hours later to continue that storyline with the next quest. But the order in which you do things doesn't matter for the most part. The first DLC quest is time sensitive and there are a few quests where you profit from having done other quests first (more dialogue options) but that's about it.

[[=]Josiah]

As Silverbane7 very subtly implied in the above response: Completion of Panam's side quest is highly consequential to the ending of the main story so this is why there's a lot of communication from her. Ideally, you go and help her. You can choose to ignore / side against her at V's peril.

[TheVibinFrog]

There's a minute and a half long sex scene with V and Panam, so it's worth it in the end.

[psionyx]

The reason she texts you a lot is because she considers V her friend, after you do the various things for her to get on her good side, and she's a high energy, anxious woman, isolated from her family and forced to try and make it on her own in a city she hates, working with people she hates. Except V. Someone she now likes. So...is it really that surprising, that she's going to fixate on you, her ONLY positive contact in a city filled with every form of toxicity imaginable, and try and chat you up? Judy by comparison, is so insular and introverted as to almost be a negative space. Hell even when you actually romance her, when you tell her that the chip is killing you, her reaction boils down to "....that's rough buddy." She doesn't seem at all concerned about it, because she still keeps V at a distance.

In short, Judy is Wednesday Adams, Panam is Enid Sinclair.

[Coleman]

Panam is one of the very few genuinely nice people in NC. Judy is wishy washy, she hates so and so, you take care of it, she doesn't know how she feels about it, also you didn't fix it the exact way she wanted......it's a whole deal with her.

[psionyx]

Originally posted by Coleman:

Panam is one of the very few genuinely nice people in NC. Judy is wishy washy, she hates so and so, you take care of it, she doesn't know how she feels about it, also you didn't fix it the exact way she wanted......it's a whole deal with her.

To be fair, ALL of the love interest NPCs have that problem of "our affection to you is directly tied to you doing our questline in a way we like." Panam has that as well, as does River. Not sure about Kerry but I assume he has the same "you said no to my request so now I go frigid on you" reaction the others do. That's not really a personality trait of these characters, and is really more of a game design choice by the devs. So I don't really hold that part against them, as it's a pretty common problem in gaming romance.
The more telling thing to me, is how Judy reacts when she learns about the chip killing V, even after you actively romance her. She's just incredibly blase about it. Whereas Panam literally summons a Nomad army to help you and storm the single most powerful corp in Night City, because that's what needs to happen for you to survive. Yeah she's prickly when she doesn't really know you, or considers you something of an obstacle to her goals, but if you get her on Team V, she is quite literally a Ride or Die and I'm Bringing a Tank kind of gal.

[Edmund Greyfox]

Originally posted by psionyx:

Originally posted by Coleman:

Panam is one of the very few genuinely nice people in NC. Judy is wishy washy, she hates so and so, you take care of it, she doesn't know how she feels about it, also you didn't fix it the exact way she wanted......it's a whole deal with her.

To be fair, ALL of the love interest NPCs have that problem of "our affection to you is directly tied to you doing our questline in a way we like." Panam has that as well, as does River. Not sure about Kerry but I assume he has the same "you said no to my request so now I go frigid on you" reaction the others do. That's not really a personality trait of these characters, and is really more of a game design choice by the devs. So I don't really hold that part against them, as it's a pretty common problem in gaming romance.
The more telling thing to me, is how Judy reacts when she learns about the chip killing V, even after you actively romance her. She's just incredibly blase about it. Whereas Panam literally summons a Nomad army to help you and storm the single most powerful corp in Night City, because that's what needs to happen for you to survive. Yeah she's prickly when she doesn't really know you, or considers you something of an obstacle to her goals, but if you get her on Team V, she is quite literally a Ride or Die and I'm Bringing a Tank kind of gal.

Well yeah, but who is Judy supposed to summon to help you? The Mox? It could be amusing to assault Arasaka with a strike team of dolls and joy toys, but even with Judy's chip I just don't see that turning out well. :)

[psionyx]

Originally posted by Edmund Greyfox:

Originally posted by psionyx:

To be fair, ALL of the love interest NPCs have that problem of "our affection to you is directly tied to you doing our questline in a way we like." Panam has that as well, as does River. Not sure about Kerry but I assume he has the same "you said no to my request so now I go frigid on you" reaction the others do. That's not really a personality trait of these characters, and is really more of a game design choice by the devs. So I don't really hold that part against them, as it's a pretty common problem in gaming romance.
The more telling thing to me, is how Judy reacts when she learns about the chip killing V, even after you actively romance her. She's just incredibly blase about it. Whereas Panam literally summons a Nomad army to help you and storm the single most powerful corp in Night City, because that's what needs to happen for you to survive. Yeah she's prickly when she doesn't really know you, or considers you something of an obstacle to her goals, but if you get her on Team V, she is quite literally a Ride or Die and I'm Bringing a Tank kind of gal.

Well yeah, but who is Judy supposed to summon to help you? The Mox? It could be amusing to assault Arasaka with a strike team of dolls and joy toys, but even with Judy's chip I just don't see that turning out well. :)

She could at least show some sympathy for the fact that the woman she apparently is in love with, is terminally ill, and is also haunted by the ghost of a 50 year dead rockerboy. But instead, as you are sitting there, post-coitus with her, drinking coffee, she reacts like you told her "i got a speeding ticket." So either she doesn't actually care about V that much, and you are just a piece of trim for her to enjoy on the side before she leaves Night City for good, (which is entirely likely given how she actually CAN choose to leave), or, if she does care deeply for V, then the devs woefully misread the reaction someone would have in that situation. I'm not saying she needs to mobilize the Mox dolls for a hooker army (though that would've been awesome). But maybe, I dunno, ask about how she could help? Maybe start looking into all of her braindance related tech? We just got done with a mission where we literally link minds with her to share memories, and she mentions earlier that Evelyn somehow converted memories she had previously, into BD scrolls, despite not having been recording at that time. Maybe find a way to mirror image V's psyche onto something else, and allow a safe extraction. Even if it doesn't actually work, that's irrelevant, I'd just like to see her be, you know INVOLVED in V's plight. But, she's not. She's incredibly disconnected, even after the romance route.
And again, if the idea is that she's just totally disconnected and you are simply a rebound piece of output for her, fine, but that makes me, the player, less inclined to have much investment in her romance storyline you know? If me loving her, makes ZERO difference in her reaction, as compared to her reaction to Friend V, then it's (I think) a failure on the writing side of things. To make the two routes effectively indistinguishable. I like Judy just fine, she's actually one of the more empathetic characters in NC, if you are Evelyn, or a Doll. But to V, a lot of the time she just seems....disconnected. I don't know if this is an artifact of some script/content editing as they were releasing the game, but it always felt a little hollow and flat, and like something just got cut for time.

[Chrisme]

I also found Judy to be incredibly disappointing. Got the devil ending and the way she first berates you and then simply dumps you in the credits screen is pretty disappointing. She treats you like another Maiko and throughout the game she indeed never really cared that much about V's state of health. Always felt off. Meanwhile Panam is one of the few people who remains deeply grateful for everything you have done for her, prioritizes time for V and maintains contact. Maybe other love interests also respond in a similar way in that ending but the conflicting signals Judy sends to V simply make her appear irrational, disloyal, selfish even. I mean okay, V does not actually change Judy's life for the better (unlike Panam's) but V still supports all her half-baked dangerous plans and supports her emotionally.

[Silverbane7]

@psyonyx
I think part of the issue with Judy is she has a good chunk of cut content.

If you read some of the shards she has, the things she's been working on, such as the modification to the Doll chips....
It looks like Judy might just have had another potential way to 'fix' V.

Tbh, I'm not surprised. The women in the game got all the love so to speak.
Both of them are completely integral to the main plotline, you just can't miss them. You CAN ignore them...but you can't miss them.
Kerry and River can be completely missed out on tho since they have no direct connection to the basic main storyline.
(Yeah, Kerry is tied to Johnny's line. But River is only available from side quests, so even more miserable since no-one asks you to visit him)

It's like how all 4 romance characters flirt with both V's.
Kerry would be understandable since he was bi with a male preference in the tabletop (99% guy over gal type thing. But a girl *could* win him over every once in a while in tabletop)

Panam at least turns both V's advances down at first.
But all 4 of them flirt with you even if you aren't their designated type.

There was quite a bit of talk about how Judy might be a way to save V when the expansion was on the way (YouTube at least. I remember a couple folks speculating on it)
Knowing the Devs tho, it would likely be the same as going to Mikoshi.
V would be free of Johnny, but still dying due to damage.
But maybe this way, Johnny could go on a lesser Relic type and stay with V as an additional option.
Judy's budget Relic option lol.

[psionyx]

Originally posted by Silverbane7:

@psyonyx
I think part of the issue with Judy is she has a good chunk of cut content.

If you read some of the shards she has, the things she's been working on, such as the modification to the Doll chips....
It looks like Judy might just have had another potential way to 'fix' V.

Yeah I know, that's why I mentioned it. It definitely seemed like they were trying to tie different "save" options to different Love interests/lifepath characters. I've seen discussion, given how much cut Militech content there was, that Meredith was likely meant to be the Corpo love interest, and the Phantom Liberty ending of "let the NUSA fix you" was possibly going to be tied to her. But then they gutted her content, and reworked it into the DLC. My point about Judy though, is that given how much they cut of her, it makes her a less realized character. She's just kind of...floating along, indifferent to so much of what happens to V. Which sucks, because I feel it makes her less real in a lot of ways. Which sucks because early on, she had a LOT of development. With The Heist, and the fallout from Evelyn, and her sidequest. Seeing Judy grieve for her friend, and how well that part was done, is basically why EVERY time I play this game, I always, always, get Evelyn's katana, and use it to gut every Scavenger in the factory where they are keeping her. Doesn't matter what my build is, they WILL ALL die by Evelyn's katana. I also always kill Woodman with it. But then after that? Judy just kind of fades away.

Originally posted by Silverbane7:

@psyonyx
Tbh, I'm not surprised. The women in the game got all the love so to speak.
Both of them are completely integral to the main plotline, you just can't miss them. You CAN ignore them...but you can't miss them.
Kerry and River can be completely missed out on tho since they have no direct connection to the basic main storyline.
(Yeah, Kerry is tied to Johnny's line. But River is only available from side quests, so even more miserable since no-one asks you to visit him)

It's like how all 4 romance characters flirt with both V's.
Kerry would be understandable since he was bi with a male preference in the tabletop (99% guy over gal type thing. But a girl *could* win him over every once in a while in tabletop)

Panam at least turns both V's advances down at first.
But all 4 of them flirt with you even if you aren't their designated type.

There was quite a bit of talk about how Judy might be a way to save V when the expansion was on the way (YouTube at least. I remember a couple folks speculating on it)
Knowing the Devs tho, it would likely be the same as going to Mikoshi.
V would be free of Johnny, but still dying due to damage.
But maybe this way, Johnny could go on a lesser Relic type and stay with V as an additional option.
Judy's budget Relic option lol.

Yeah, maybe Johnny could've been like the Blackwall gun/cyberdeck reward down her route. Still there and able to snark, but also non-lethal. Actually now I kind of want that. A Johnny Silverhand cyberdeck, where when I use it to attack an enemy you hear Samurai songs play, and the digital image of Johnny appears at the target, and does some guitar move as the blast hits, like he's killing them with rock n roll. And if it spreads like the Blackwall does, you could have a whole band of Johnny's on the field. That would be hilarious.

[speedwagon]

Originally posted by Silverbane7:

the only Panam questline you HAVE to do *right NOW* is the one she calls you about Saul.
(if it's called 'Riders of the Storm)

everything else can wait

if you want to be rid of Panam, you just have to side with Rogue when she wants to go get revenge, and later side with Saul.
but this will loose you a possible path out of your troubles later on.

there are only a few quests in game that have time limits.
'Riders of the Storm' and 'Happy Together' are the two ones i know. (easier to name them than to describe them, for spoilers)

i had a 200hr save where someone had been waiting for V at a place called 'Embers' for around 180 of those hours XD

Except there is no path out of trouble because the writers don't get Cyberpunk