Can't remove PLS

[N00B]

I've had this bug for ages, but the Projectile Launch System can't be unequipped in the Ripperdoc menu.
The only way I can remove it is by replacing it with another arm cyberwear, then removing that one.

[Willow Rivers]

Not a bug it has always been this way, you cannot remove arm cyberware, your flesh arms were replaced with cyberware arms, there is no going back to non cyberware arms.

[N00B]

Originally posted by Willow Rivers:

Not a bug it has always been this way, you cannot remove arm cyberware, your flesh arms were replaced with cyberware arms, there is no going back to non cyberware arms.

That doesn't make any sense because I CAN remove every other kind of arm cyberwear. I literally stated as much in the original post. I always have to equip an arm cyberwear other than the PLS to remove them.

[Rooke]

Willow is correct. You're not removing the equipment, you're replacing them with another cyber arm. Once you have cyber arms of any type installed, they have to remove your original arms.

The only time you keep your original arms is if you only get a tattoo, while you still have your original arms.

I imagine, CDR could make it so your original arms are kept on ice at the ripperdoc's office where you had the procedure done and have a slot for "Original Arms". But the question would be, "Why?"

Cyber arms are so much better than the originals. I love destroying city infrastructure with my maxed out gorilla arms.

[N00B]

Originally posted by Rooke:

Willow is correct. You're not removing the equipment, you're replacing them with another cyber arm. Once you have cyber arms of any type installed, they have to remove your original arms.

The only time you keep your original arms is if you only get a tattoo, while you still have your original arms.

I imagine, CDR could make it so your original arms are kept on ice at the ripperdoc's office where you had the procedure done and have a slot for "Original Arms". But the question would be, "Why?"

Cyber arms are so much better than the originals. I love destroying city infrastructure with my maxed out gorilla arms.

I repeat. I CAN remove them. PLS is the only one that this applies to.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by NOOB:

Originally posted by Rooke:

Willow is correct. You're not removing the equipment, you're replacing them with another cyber arm. Once you have cyber arms of any type installed, they have to remove your original arms.

The only time you keep your original arms is if you only get a tattoo, while you still have your original arms.

I imagine, CDR could make it so your original arms are kept on ice at the ripperdoc's office where you had the procedure done and have a slot for "Original Arms". But the question would be, "Why?"

Cyber arms are so much better than the originals. I love destroying city infrastructure with my maxed out gorilla arms.

I repeat. I CAN remove them. PLS is the only one that this applies to.

If we are looking for a semi-legitimate seeming reason that doesn't sound totally out of line with the lore of the setting: Because a PLS system is a lot more in-depth integration than other cyber-arms, as far as it's modifications go. Honestly, the only other one I can think of that would be in the same postcode, systems complexity wise, would be maybe the monowire.
This could be argued to mean there is some sort of conditional on it that makes going STRAIGHT back to 'civilian' model cyberarms not a good idea, so you have to step down to some other model of cyberarm and adjust to it before going back to 'normal' cyberarms. The game being a game just sorta skips over the adjustment period itself, but keeps the stepdown as a nod. Would make some sense with how I remember the PnP treating the humanity stat and people being driven insane by chrome, not just by the amount, but by the degree of change in systems vs what they are used to.
Someone like Smasher suddenly getting stuck in a civilian body all of a sudden would probably make him go (somewhat ineffectually, what with the civilian body) psycho, for example, while putting him in a different military body would just be a 'shrug and move on' affair for him. We see hints of this in one of the endings with V in the game (spoilers I guess, though no real details given)
where a V who is used to being chromed up is now a normie and kinda losing themselves because of it. Not just by being depressed over it, but also showing some signs of dissociation.

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by NOOB:

Originally posted by Willow Rivers:

Not a bug it has always been this way, you cannot remove arm cyberware, your flesh arms were replaced with cyberware arms, there is no going back to non cyberware arms.

That doesn't make any sense because I CAN remove every other kind of arm cyberwear.

THAT would be the bug, I believe. Same reason you can't remove your eyes, you have to replace them.

[N00B]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Originally posted by NOOB:

I repeat. I CAN remove them. PLS is the only one that this applies to.

If we are looking for a semi-legitimate seeming reason that doesn't sound totally out of line with the lore of the setting: Because a PLS system is a lot more in-depth integration than other cyber-arms, as far as it's modifications go. Honestly, the only other one I can think of that would be in the same postcode, systems complexity wise, would be maybe the monowire.
This could be argued to mean there is some sort of conditional on it that makes going STRAIGHT back to 'civilian' model cyberarms not a good idea, so you have to step down to some other model of cyberarm and adjust to it before going back to 'normal' cyberarms. The game being a game just sorta skips over the adjustment period itself, but keeps the stepdown as a nod. Would make some sense with how I remember the PnP treating the humanity stat and people being driven insane by chrome, not just by the amount, but by the degree of change in systems vs what they are used to.
Someone like Smasher suddenly getting stuck in a civilian body all of a sudden would probably make him go (somewhat ineffectually, what with the civilian body) psycho, for example, while putting him in a different military body would just be a 'shrug and move on' affair for him. We see hints of this in one of the endings with V in the game (spoilers I guess, though no real details given)
where a V who is used to being chromed up is now a normie and kinda losing themselves because of it. Not just by being depressed over it, but also showing some signs of dissociation.

Originally posted by Night Foxx (She/her):

Originally posted by NOOB:

That doesn't make any sense because I CAN remove every other kind of arm cyberwear.

THAT would be the bug, I believe. Same reason you can't remove your eyes, you have to replace them.

This is not a Kojima game, guys. Its a pressurized gas tank attached to a baseball launcher. it is a down-scaled t-shirt launcher with a magazine. Are you really telling me that having BOTH your arms completely replaced with robot arms is then EASIER to reverse, than have ONE arm replaced with a potato cannon ?

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by NOOB:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

If we are looking for a semi-legitimate seeming reason that doesn't sound totally out of line with the lore of the setting: Because a PLS system is a lot more in-depth integration than other cyber-arms, as far as it's modifications go. Honestly, the only other one I can think of that would be in the same postcode, systems complexity wise, would be maybe the monowire.
This could be argued to mean there is some sort of conditional on it that makes going STRAIGHT back to 'civilian' model cyberarms not a good idea, so you have to step down to some other model of cyberarm and adjust to it before going back to 'normal' cyberarms. The game being a game just sorta skips over the adjustment period itself, but keeps the stepdown as a nod. Would make some sense with how I remember the PnP treating the humanity stat and people being driven insane by chrome, not just by the amount, but by the degree of change in systems vs what they are used to.
Someone like Smasher suddenly getting stuck in a civilian body all of a sudden would probably make him go (somewhat ineffectually, what with the civilian body) psycho, for example, while putting him in a different military body would just be a 'shrug and move on' affair for him. We see hints of this in one of the endings with V in the game (spoilers I guess, though no real details given)
where a V who is used to being chromed up is now a normie and kinda losing themselves because of it. Not just by being depressed over it, but also showing some signs of dissociation.

Originally posted by Night Foxx (She/her):

THAT would be the bug, I believe. Same reason you can't remove your eyes, you have to replace them.

This is not a Kojima game, guys. Its a pressurized gas tank attached to a baseball launcher. it is a down-scaled t-shirt launcher with a magazine. Are you really telling me that having BOTH your arms completely replaced with robot arms is then EASIER to reverse, than have ONE arm replaced with a potato cannon ?

Yes, it very much IS easier to reverse 'both your arms' than it is to have one arm replaced with a much more complex bit of tech. Especially since 'removing' the other arms doesn't give you back your organic ones, it just replaces the special ones with normal cyberarms.
If you really think transforming the arm into a launcher, aiming, loading, integrating the controls internally etc, all that, is somehow less intensive on the neural and physical interfaces than 'these arms have pop-out but static blades' or 'these arms are just very durable and have strong pneuatics in them', then you have no comprehension whatsoever of the source material. Then again, your comment about this 'not being a kojima game' says that right out the gate. The source medium isn't any more grounded than Kojima's brand of insanity, really, and often DOES in fact go to significant levels of detail in explain the hows and whys of things. Comes with originally being tabletop.

[N00B]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Originally posted by NOOB:

This is not a Kojima game, guys. Its a pressurized gas tank attached to a baseball launcher. it is a down-scaled t-shirt launcher with a magazine. Are you really telling me that having BOTH your arms completely replaced with robot arms is then EASIER to reverse, than have ONE arm replaced with a potato cannon ?

Yes, it very much IS easier to reverse 'both your arms' than it is to have one arm replaced with a much more complex bit of tech. Especially since 'removing' the other arms doesn't give you back your organic ones, it just replaces the special ones with normal cyberarms.
If you really think transforming the arm into a launcher, aiming, loading, integrating the controls internally etc, all that, is somehow less intensive on the neural and physical interfaces than 'these arms have pop-out but static blades' or 'these arms are just very durable and have strong pneuatics in them', then you have no comprehension whatsoever of the source material. Then again, your comment about this 'not being a kojima game' says that right out the gate. The source medium isn't any more grounded than Kojima's brand of insanity, really, and often DOES in fact go to significant levels of detail in explain the hows and whys of things. Comes with originally being tabletop.

The Kojima comment wasn't about realism, but presentation of story. Kojima games are infamous for using little, unexplained details to help ground the story, like MGS5 for example giving you 1 less round in closed-bolt weapons since the weapon was likely stored dry when arriving to the scene and loaded with ammo upon landing, leaving out the extra round often found in the chamber after a tactical reload.

And secondly, yes, it is easier.
The mantis are added EXTRA JOINTS. Do you not understand what that means? You have to add organs that were previously not part of the body and as such completely abscent from the person's senses in a way that lets them control them like extra limbs. Do you not understand how complex it is to give people 2 new limbs to use? People already need a lot of time to fully control body parts they already have, like people having to train and learn to how to individually move their pectoral muscles. And may we mention durability? Your arms, now hollowed out, need to be durable enough and retain enough strength despite most of the muscle mass having been removed to then hold aloft 2 extra arms with blades. The mantis blades have the structural integrity of stacked cards. They would not be easier to replace than a built in nerf-gun.

The PLS is literally just a pipe with pressurized gas and a small holder at the end that keeps the projectiles stationary prior to launch. Reloading mechanisms are centuries old by irl time and multiple centuries old by the time of the game. Having a mechanism that just pulls a projectile out of a tube-magazine and places it on the pipe is not complex... at all. Hell, its arguably easier. The PLS launches the ENTIRE projectile. That means that the only part of the cycling mechanism you need is to load it. NO need to chamber it and NO need to eject a spent casing.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by NOOB:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Yes, it very much IS easier to reverse 'both your arms' than it is to have one arm replaced with a much more complex bit of tech. Especially since 'removing' the other arms doesn't give you back your organic ones, it just replaces the special ones with normal cyberarms.
If you really think transforming the arm into a launcher, aiming, loading, integrating the controls internally etc, all that, is somehow less intensive on the neural and physical interfaces than 'these arms have pop-out but static blades' or 'these arms are just very durable and have strong pneuatics in them', then you have no comprehension whatsoever of the source material. Then again, your comment about this 'not being a kojima game' says that right out the gate. The source medium isn't any more grounded than Kojima's brand of insanity, really, and often DOES in fact go to significant levels of detail in explain the hows and whys of things. Comes with originally being tabletop.

The Kojima comment wasn't about realism, but presentation of story. Kojima games are infamous for using little, unexplained details to help ground the story, like MGS5 for example giving you 1 less round in closed-bolt weapons since the weapon was likely stored dry when arriving to the scene and loaded with ammo upon landing, leaving out the extra round often found in the chamber after a tactical reload.

And secondly, yes, it is easier.
The mantis are added EXTRA JOINTS. Do you not understand what that means? You have to add organs that were previously not part of the body and as such completely abscent from the person's senses in a way that lets them control them like extra limbs. Do you not understand how complex it is to give people 2 new limbs to use? People already need a lot of time to fully control body parts they already have, like people having to train and learn to how to individually move their pectoral muscles. And may we mention durability? Your arms, now hollowed out, need to be durable enough and retain enough strength despite most of the muscle mass having been removed to then hold aloft 2 extra arms with blades. The mantis blades have the structural integrity of stacked cards. They would not be easier to replace than a built in nerf-gun.

The PLS is literally just a pipe with pressurized gas and a small holder at the end that keeps the projectiles stationary prior to launch. Reloading mechanisms are centuries old by irl time and multiple centuries old by the time of the game. Having a mechanism that just pulls a projectile out of a tube-magazine and places it on the pipe is not complex... at all. Hell, its arguably easier. The PLS launches the ENTIRE projectile. That means that the only part of the cycling mechanism you need is to load it. NO need to chamber it and NO need to eject a spent casing.

So, in other words, you fully admit there was no point or value to whatever supposed argument you were trying to make by bringing up Kojima? Or are we just ignoring how a lot of the writing in CP2077 does actually rely on little quiet bits of info that say a lot more about what is going on than the upfront writing does?


No, the mantis are NOT extra joints. They are, mechanically speaking, a springloaded mechanism not under direct control of user beyond 'expand' and 'contract'. You kill your own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ argument when you later talk about how 'hrad it would be to replace the mantis blades', where you talk as if they wouldn't be replacing the ENTIRE ARM if they got damaged and needed replaced, they also do not have the advanced control systems required for a GUN to be operated via the nervous system. You know, a thing your existing systems have no analogy for, as opposed to swinging your arms with the mantis blades, and expanding contracting a muscle to activate/deactivate, instead of a complex multistage like a firearm, while also actively choosing to gloss over that the arm they are built into IS NOT ORGANIC. You try to argue structural as if the arm is not an entirely cybernetic arm using ungodly strong materials that as a result, do not need the same type of structure as a normal human limb to support them.
Then there is the silliness of claiming 'no need to chamber' and 'no need to eject' with regards to a projectile system. EVERY projectile needs chambered, and it being supposedly caseless ammo does not mean there isn't waste that has to be removed from the chamber lest it foul the mechanisms. You very clearly have absolutely ZERO clue what you are talking about.

Yes, going from nothing to a PLS, or the inverse, would be more of a struggle than going from gorilla or mantis to nothing. We aren't talking 'how hard is it to physically replace the arm' in the first ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ place, we are talking about the mental strain that comes with ALL changes of cyberware, with the more advanced (and non-human) the cyberware, the greater the mental disruption from having it removed or added.

Try actually LOOKING at the concept art and animations, or even just comprehending fundamental aspects of the setting instead of flying off the head and ignoring how the fictional world is setup in your effort to denigrate the PLS because you don't like it.

[N00B]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Originally posted by NOOB:

The Kojima comment wasn't about realism, but presentation of story. Kojima games are infamous for using little, unexplained details to help ground the story, like MGS5 for example giving you 1 less round in closed-bolt weapons since the weapon was likely stored dry when arriving to the scene and loaded with ammo upon landing, leaving out the extra round often found in the chamber after a tactical reload.

And secondly, yes, it is easier.
The mantis are added EXTRA JOINTS. Do you not understand what that means? You have to add organs that were previously not part of the body and as such completely abscent from the person's senses in a way that lets them control them like extra limbs. Do you not understand how complex it is to give people 2 new limbs to use? People already need a lot of time to fully control body parts they already have, like people having to train and learn to how to individually move their pectoral muscles. And may we mention durability? Your arms, now hollowed out, need to be durable enough and retain enough strength despite most of the muscle mass having been removed to then hold aloft 2 extra arms with blades. The mantis blades have the structural integrity of stacked cards. They would not be easier to replace than a built in nerf-gun.

The PLS is literally just a pipe with pressurized gas and a small holder at the end that keeps the projectiles stationary prior to launch. Reloading mechanisms are centuries old by irl time and multiple centuries old by the time of the game. Having a mechanism that just pulls a projectile out of a tube-magazine and places it on the pipe is not complex... at all. Hell, its arguably easier. The PLS launches the ENTIRE projectile. That means that the only part of the cycling mechanism you need is to load it. NO need to chamber it and NO need to eject a spent casing.

So, in other words, you fully admit there was no point or value to whatever supposed argument you were trying to make by bringing up Kojima? Or are we just ignoring how a lot of the writing in CP2077 does actually rely on little quiet bits of info that say a lot more about what is going on than the upfront writing does?


No, the mantis are NOT extra joints. They are, mechanically speaking, a springloaded mechanism not under direct control of user beyond 'expand' and 'contract'. You kill your own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ argument when you later talk about how 'hrad it would be to replace the mantis blades', where you talk as if they wouldn't be replacing the ENTIRE ARM if they got damaged and needed replaced, they also do not have the advanced control systems required for a GUN to be operated via the nervous system. You know, a thing your existing systems have no analogy for, as opposed to swinging your arms with the mantis blades, and expanding contracting a muscle to activate/deactivate, instead of a complex multistage like a firearm, while also actively choosing to gloss over that the arm they are built into IS NOT ORGANIC. You try to argue structural as if the arm is not an entirely cybernetic arm using ungodly strong materials that as a result, do not need the same type of structure as a normal human limb to support them.
Then there is the silliness of claiming 'no need to chamber' and 'no need to eject' with regards to a projectile system. EVERY projectile needs chambered, and it being supposedly caseless ammo does not mean there isn't waste that has to be removed from the chamber lest it foul the mechanisms. You very clearly have absolutely ZERO clue what you are talking about.

Yes, going from nothing to a PLS, or the inverse, would be more of a struggle than going from gorilla or mantis to nothing. We aren't talking 'how hard is it to physically replace the arm' in the first ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ place, we are talking about the mental strain that comes with ALL changes of cyberware, with the more advanced (and non-human) the cyberware, the greater the mental disruption from having it removed or added.

Try actually LOOKING at the concept art and animations, or even just comprehending fundamental aspects of the setting instead of flying off the head and ignoring how the fictional world is setup in your effort to denigrate the PLS because you don't like it.

I admit, I forgot that the PLS does have to chamber the rounds. However, there is no need to clear out the chamber. If we look at irl examples, the G11 also did not require removal of any waste. The gunpowder is expelled as gas, as is the casing. The primer is launched out of the barrel following the projectile. If a gun designed in the cold war doesn't suffer from not cleaing up after firing caseless ammo, a gun from 2077 shouldn't either.

Secondly, no. The mantis blades aren't merely suspended. In promotional material we can clearly see that uses can move the joints and do so separately from other joints. Extending the blades for further reach, or bending the second joint for a hooking motion, or extending both to slash with the outer edge of the blade. Continuing with durability, in cyberpunk various other NPCs using mantis blades can be seen. Despite your claim of alloys with greater durability being used for the prosthetic arms of the MB, they are no more resistant to being disarmed than non MB users, which a Kojima level detailed game would not have missed had it been intentional.

The PLS is far simpler to control. In real life, people have already developed sensors which can be triggered by flexing the forearm muscles simultaneously, allowing for similar devices to be used.
https://youtu.be/TW4uw5EmYKQ?si=MzuWouJpiDiAQqWl
Once the projectile is fired, the user's input is no longer needed. Automatic weapons are far from new and far from complex. Once the projectile is fired, the cycling of the mechanism can very easily be made automatic. Aiming it is also, as mentioned before, only a matter of UI and should not put the user under any more strain than using the built in GPS, display, phone calls and other sources of stimulation and information they are already equipped with.

Lastly, I would like to remind you of the point of my argument.
I contested the idea that removing the PLS would be more difficult than removing the Mantis Blades or the Gorilla Arms, in an attempt to demonstrate that the PLS being unremovable does not make sense. You have, as you claim I have, underminded your argument by admitting to this fact.
If V can equip and remove cyberwear that allows them to aim every other firearm in the game, then whatever additional components lie within the PLS that allow it to cycle its mechanism, aim and fire should not be irremovable. And if it is, then it is even more nonsensical that replacing it with other arm cyberwear is not only possible, but that those cyberwears do not suffer from that same drawbsck of irremovability.

This is a bug, not a feature.