Cyberpunk 2077

Cyberpunk 2077

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DorylPlz Apr 13, 2023 @ 8:01pm
Is it me or PT and RTX reflections looks like crap on CP2077?
I've been noticing this now that i actually have a card that can run this game with RTX/PT, and i think it looks too grainy and/or blurred, and i've been noticing that there have been moments where even with RTX off looks just better that with it on, just look at this screenshot i just took, and it's not just this car, it's everywhere on the floor and windows too.

Oh, and it's with DLSS balanced, but i tried with quality mode and it's still there.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2962012871
Last edited by DorylPlz; Apr 13, 2023 @ 8:02pm
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Solidus Apr 13, 2023 @ 8:14pm 
im finding the new 'mode' makes all glass on vehicles just look wrong. I also see some sort of constant flickering sort of almost like tiny ants where surface textures would show pitting like concrete walls or even on other metal surfaces which are reflective.
andressergio Apr 13, 2023 @ 8:41pm 
Originally posted by DorylPlz:
I've been noticing this now that i actually have a card that can run this game with RTX/PT, and i think it looks too grainy and/or blurred, and i've been noticing that there have been moments where even with RTX off looks just better that with it on, just look at this screenshot i just took, and it's not just this car, it's everywhere on the floor and windows too.

Oh, and it's with DLSS balanced, but i tried with quality mode and it's still there.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2962012871

i wouldn't say crap but it's true reflections are not as advertised at all
andressergio Apr 13, 2023 @ 8:42pm 
Originally posted by Solidus:
im finding the new 'mode' makes all glass on vehicles just look wrong. I also see some sort of constant flickering sort of almost like tiny ants where surface textures would show pitting like concrete walls or even on other metal surfaces which are reflective.

you can spot the artifacts flickering all over in doors, cars, etc
Setech Apr 14, 2023 @ 4:34am 
Originally posted by DorylPlz:
I've been noticing this now that i actually have a card that can run this game with RTX/PT, and i think it looks too grainy and/or blurred, and i've been noticing that there have been moments where even with RTX off looks just better that with it on, just look at this screenshot i just took, and it's not just this car, it's everywhere on the floor and windows too.

Oh, and it's with DLSS balanced, but i tried with quality mode and it's still there.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2962012871

See the reflection in the car's window: it's pristine. What you are having issues with is the way the car's paint surface refracts light, which is a choice made by developer/artist.

Even if it is flawed (which it could be): you have a perspective correct reflection that isn't possible with previous techniques. It's better than what was before, so your argument is kind of pointless.

Then again, here I am answering this post so.. no winners here.

Originally posted by andressergio:
Originally posted by Solidus:
im finding the new 'mode' makes all glass on vehicles just look wrong. I also see some sort of constant flickering sort of almost like tiny ants where surface textures would show pitting like concrete walls or even on other metal surfaces which are reflective.

you can spot the artifacts flickering all over in doors, cars, etc

These are a limitation of the technology currently. as Steam doesn't respond to time codes in videos:

/watch?v=NRmkr50mkEE&t=721s

Full video:
https://youtu.be/NRmkr50mkEE
Last edited by Setech; Apr 23, 2023 @ 4:31am
Raytraced Apr 14, 2023 @ 10:01am 
Seems like there are two things going on:

1. The graininess is simply due to the way material is authored for the Porsche specifically. It is not a nearly perfect mirror unlike some other cars (e.g. https://i.imgur.com/GMHuDws.png ) and so is supposed to look that way. You can see it even without RT by the way.
2. The flickering artifacts (at least the ones I see myself: https://i.imgur.com/A7tKqWb.jpg ) I believe are also material authoring related. I'm certain they are not actually caused by the RT as shown in the video above, they are too static spatially and too chaotic flickering wise which won't be the case if it was something affected by the denoiser. Instead it looks like there are some issues in normal calculation for this material. The car with a different material on the left is not affected by this issue at all. More so, I can also see these artifacts on the Porsche without RT as well albeit in much lower quantities.
Last edited by Raytraced; Apr 14, 2023 @ 10:05am
NathanD7 Apr 14, 2023 @ 11:21am 
They shouldn't have released PT for this game. The devs did a lazy job of implementing it. They should've rebuilt the game with PT in mind instead.
ML1985 Apr 14, 2023 @ 11:23am 
I wonder why the own character is not reflected.
Crimsomrider Apr 14, 2023 @ 12:05pm 
Originally posted by ML1985:
I wonder why the own character is not reflected.

Because our characters do not have the head model rendered while we control them.

In Evelyn's BD for example, we can see her reflection on the terminal in first person, but she has no head :D
ML1985 Apr 14, 2023 @ 1:33pm 
Originally posted by Crimsomrider:
Originally posted by ML1985:
I wonder why the own character is not reflected.

Because our characters do not have the head model rendered while we control them.

In Evelyn's BD for example, we can see her reflection on the terminal in first person, but she has no head :D

Duke Nukem 3D was already able to display mirror images in real time. Seems to be a forgotten technology :D
Northwold Apr 14, 2023 @ 4:40pm 
Originally posted by NathanD7:
They shouldn't have released PT for this game. The devs did a lazy job of implementing it. They should've rebuilt the game with PT in mind instead.
LOL they themselves said it's essentially experimental because it is not realistic to redo the entire game (and it isn't). Path tracing didn't exist when the game was being developed.
Zebedee Apr 14, 2023 @ 4:50pm 
Originally posted by ML1985:
Duke Nukem 3D was already able to display mirror images in real time. Seems to be a forgotten technology :D

Boring answer is that they could do it but during development they realised that it would either have to look like crap or it would crush performance. (Miles Tost has talked a bit on his stream about the problems with reflective and transparent surfaces in this game.) So they took the decision not to do it with the release version. Whether it's something they've revisited since ditching support for the lower end hardware (PC and console), we'll see.
Last edited by Zebedee; Apr 14, 2023 @ 4:51pm
Crimsomrider Apr 14, 2023 @ 4:57pm 
Originally posted by ML1985:
Duke Nukem 3D was already able to display mirror images in real time. Seems to be a forgotten technology :D

Not exactly because that was a pixel-perfect replicated room that was being rendered on the other side of the mirror, with an inserted model of Duke which replicates your own movements and actions to give the simulation of a mirror.

Plus I'm pretty sure you couldn't see your own body from first-person POV in that game. Just the arms.

You can see this mirror-simulation in newer games as well, such as the Resident Evil 3 mirror scene with Jill Valentine where the illusion of the mirror is actually a fully rendered room behind the mirror where a full replica model of Jill is copying your own movements;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwnlg50MVBs
In games where you can see your entire body from a first-person point of view, head models are never rendered. Games such as Resident Evil Village, Cyberpunk 2077, Metro games, Fallout 4 and so on.

That's because the camera has to be where the head is in order to show the entire body and usually the upper torso part of the body is cut off.

In Cyberpunk's case, reflections due to RTX are all reflected real-time so they completely made V invisible. If they didn't, we'd see V's body with no head.

That's why when we're looking from Evelyn's first-person POV during her BDs, we can see her body but no head in reflections. They forgot to make her fully invisible :D
Last edited by Crimsomrider; Apr 14, 2023 @ 5:10pm
Raytraced Apr 14, 2023 @ 5:29pm 
Originally posted by Crimsomrider:

Because our characters do not have the head model rendered while we control them.

In Evelyn's BD for example, we can see her reflection on the terminal in first person, but she has no head :D

Originally posted by Crimsomrider:
Not exactly because that was a pixel-perfect replicated room that was being rendered on the other side of the mirror, with an inserted model of Duke which replicates your own movements and actions to give the simulation of a mirror.

Plus I'm pretty sure you couldn't see your own body from first-person POV in that game. Just the arms.

In Cyberpunk's case, reflections due to RTX are all reflected real-time so they completely made V invisible. If they didn't, we'd see V's body with no head.

That's why when we're looking from Evelyn's first-person POV during her BDs, we can see her body but no head in reflections. They forgot to make her fully invisible :D

That's not a problem at all actually since you can feed RT pipeline with entirely separate geometry. Doom Eternal does this using fully animated third person model from Battlemode for example, allowing you to see the correct reflection of yourself despite your body not being rendered at all in the first person view.

Pretty sure the real reason V is excluded from reflections in Cyberpunk is simply because devs did not want to make full set of separate third person animations just for this specific occasion, while Evelyn's case is just an oversight.
Last edited by Raytraced; Apr 14, 2023 @ 5:48pm
Zebedee Apr 30, 2023 @ 1:21pm 
Originally posted by Zebedee:
Originally posted by ML1985:
Duke Nukem 3D was already able to display mirror images in real time. Seems to be a forgotten technology :D

Boring answer is that they could do it but during development they realised that it would either have to look like crap or it would crush performance. (Miles Tost has talked a bit on his stream about the problems with reflective and transparent surfaces in this game.) So they took the decision not to do it with the release version. Whether it's something they've revisited since ditching support for the lower end hardware (PC and console), we'll see.


Just had Pawel Sasko talk about it on his stream tonight (about 02:08:00 in on twitch). Confirming again it's a performance problem which meant they never fully realised it ingame although there's some evidence of them testing it in the files for modders to play with. He highlights particularly the issue of multiple reflective surfaces needing to reflect multiple different textures in real time. From what he said about it being an industry problem to solve, it would seem unlikely that it will change for this game. Perhaps something which will change for the next.
White ⁧⁧Wolf Apr 30, 2023 @ 1:28pm 
Pretty much all the RT/PT and DLSS looks like crap, at least when you look a little more carefully. Sitting ~3 metres or whatever from a TV screen however, especially with less than 20/20 vision, will not expose it so much if at all. I'm playing with all RT/PT/DLSS off except sun shadows at the moment because they solved some visual issue(s) that exist in the base rasterised game the devs have yet to fix. I'd use RT reflections too if they had no visual issues, because the regular SSR has quite some ghosting issues that the devs also didn't fix yet. So at the moment I use low SSR because reflections off altogether looks a bit too dead.
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Date Posted: Apr 13, 2023 @ 8:01pm
Posts: 15