Confused about Synapse Burnout

[psionyx]

Ok so, I've got a sweet little quickhack cycle that lets me obliterate pretty much any enemy I come across. It's an infinite cycle of damage and ram and overclock, and it's really sweet, but one thing I don't understand is why Synapse Burnout works the way it does, compared to say Short Circuit.

So, the cycle:
1. Hit Overclock
2. Hit target with Sonic Shock
3. Hit target with 2 stacks of Synapse Burnout to insure death, though one is almost all that's ever needed.
4. Hit target with System Shutdown for the RAM cost reduction and refund, replenishing my full RAM bar, or darn close.
5. Rinse repeat.

Works great, but what confuses me is when I slap Sonic Shock on the target, it technically starts a trace program, but it's instantly canceled out (actually get the "Failed" notice and the bar vanishes), when the Synapse Burnout is applied.
But when i try to do the same thing, but instead sub in Short Circuit for a non-lethal version, it doesn't cancel out the trace program. Why?
Neither Sonic Shock or Synapse Burnout specifies anything about canceling out the trace program upon death of target, but the reality is that is does do that. So why does it ONLY work with Synapse Burnout and not some other offensive quickhack? And again, neither QH in my cycle says anything about this working like this. It seems to just be an unwritten feature of that QH sequence, that isn't replicated by any other combo.
Anyone got any ideas?

[IL'dar]

I think it has to do with Sonic Shock not Burnout. Probably still some weird and bugged interactions left in the game with that hack.
Technically Burnout is also non lethal in 2.0 or did they changed it in the last patch?

[psionyx]

Originally posted by IL'dar:

I think it has to do with Sonic Shock not Burnout. Probably still some weird and bugged interactions left in the game with that hack.
Technically Burnout is also non lethal in 2.0 or did they changed it in the last patch?

As I understand it, Overheat, Short Circuit, and Contagion are the only non-lethal offense hacks. With Suicide, Synapse Burnout...and I guess Cyberpsychosis as well, being the lethal ones. That's always been the case since well before 2.0, at least from my experience playing a netrunner multiple times. And they are most definitely dead when I go check them after using Synapse Burnout.

[vonMoo]

It works like this for me too: the trace gets cancelled for a sonic shock-synapse burnout queue, at least with tier four or higher sonic shock (probably with tier three too, I just don't remember). If I use overheat or such instead of synapse burnout, the trace is not cancelled.

If it's a bug, it's a nice one to have. I'd like to think it's a deliberately hidden feature, but I guess if it *is* a feature then it's more likely they forgot to document it.


I found a reddit thread on this, where posters suggest it's caused by synapse burnout, specifically where synapse burnout kills the target outright, either as a single QH or a stack. The implication is the trace is broken because of the effectively instant death. So it might be useful to test how it works without sonic shock.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/1bjokgh/is_synapse_burnout_supposed_to_be_untraceable/


As a tangent, synapse burnout creeps me out to the point where I avoid using sometimes when I don't need the synergy with RAM use and/or overclock... there's something about the death and post-death animations. But the sonic shock-synapse burnout combo is my go to for big fights.

[vonMoo]

To add to that, I'm inclined to believe that synapse burnout avoiding a trace if lethal is a feature, not a bug, to make stealth quickhacking possible when used after sonic shock.


Edit: which is pretty much the opinion here on low sodium

https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/1g8sira/sonic_shock_still_prevents_trace_of_synapse_burn/

[psionyx]

Originally posted by vonMoo:

To add to that, I'm inclined to believe that synapse burnout avoiding a trace if lethal is a feature, not a bug, to make stealth quickhacking possible when used after sonic shock.


Edit: which is pretty much the opinion here on low sodium

https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/1g8sira/sonic_shock_still_prevents_trace_of_synapse_burn/

Right but why doesn't it apply to other instant damage QH's like Short Circuit? I don't have a problem with the idea that it drops them so fast it interrupts the trace before it can even start, that's fine. I'm just puzzled why it's unique to Synapse Burnout, especially since it's not even listed as an actual feature. The only thing that makes any sense is if we assume the trace stops because we actually cook their brain meat, and that stops the trace, but knocking them allows the hardware to...I guess just keep running in the "background" while they are passed out? But if the hardware can run independently of conscious thought, then why doesn't it continue when you cook the brain you know? I dunno, it just seems odd. I love the combo, and how it actually allows you to play a silent, terrifying netrunner like in the older versions of the game, but I just would like the option to be able to do it non-lethally with Short Circuit. Without having to install an implant to forcibly curtail the damage type.

[[=]Josiah]

It may be a holdover from when Sonic Shock prevented traces pre-2.1 (the role that T4 Memory Wipe now fills). A bug but a nice "hack" of the quickhack system?

[vonMoo]

Originally posted by psionyx:

Originally posted by vonMoo:

To add to that, I'm inclined to believe that synapse burnout avoiding a trace if lethal is a feature, not a bug, to make stealth quickhacking possible when used after sonic shock.


Edit: which is pretty much the opinion here on low sodium

https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/1g8sira/sonic_shock_still_prevents_trace_of_synapse_burn/

Right but why doesn't it apply to other instant damage QH's like Short Circuit? I don't have a problem with the idea that it drops them so fast it interrupts the trace before it can even start, that's fine. I'm just puzzled why it's unique to Synapse Burnout, especially since it's not even listed as an actual feature. The only thing that makes any sense is if we assume the trace stops because we actually cook their brain meat, and that stops the trace, but knocking them allows the hardware to...I guess just keep running in the "background" while they are passed out? But if the hardware can run independently of conscious thought, then why doesn't it continue when you cook the brain you know? I dunno, it just seems odd. I love the combo, and how it actually allows you to play a silent, terrifying netrunner like in the older versions of the game, but I just would like the option to be able to do it non-lethally with Short Circuit. Without having to install an implant to forcibly curtail the damage type.

Agreed that it's slightly odd.

But apparently, using short circuit on robots or drones produces the same effect as synapse burnout on humans, preventing a trace if enough are queued in a block to kill. So if that's true there'd be consistency in the game mechanics.

[Nachtflügel]

Sonic Shock is not required for this at all. Synapse Burnout alone is strong enough to instantly eliminate most "normal" enemies, and if it does, the tracing is instantly cancelled. It's a bit of a gamble though, because sometimes a bit of health is left over, and then the tracing starts.

In fact, Sonic Shock is pretty much completely useless. There was a short time after 2.0 when it prevented tracing, but that was actually a bug and was fixed with 2.1. Now, Memory Wipe serves that purpose, but you won't get it before Level 20.

Until then, Synapse Burnout is the only combat quickhack that can kill without tracing. Feel free to use the best version of it (you might have to upgrade your cyberdeck), always bearing in mind that occasionally it will not be strong enough. Later, System Collapse will be more reliable.

[psionyx]

Originally posted by Nachtflügel:

Sonic Shock is not required for this at all. Synapse Burnout alone is strong enough to instantly eliminate most "normal" enemies, and if it does, the tracing is instantly cancelled. It's a bit of a gamble though, because sometimes a bit of health is left over, and then the tracing starts.

In fact, Sonic Shock is pretty much completely useless. There was a short time after 2.0 when it prevented tracing, but that was actually a bug and was fixed with 2.1. Now, Memory Wipe serves that purpose, but you won't get it before Level 20.

Until then, Synapse Burnout is the only combat quickhack that can kill without tracing. Feel free to use the best version of it (you might have to upgrade your cyberdeck), always bearing in mind that occasionally it will not be strong enough. Later, System Collapse will be more reliable.

Yeah but why? Like why does SB do this and others don't? Especially since it doesn't actually specify this is a feature of it. As to your advice on what QH's to use, I'm level 50+ using tier 5++ gear and orange QH's, so it's fine. I mostly use the Sonic Shock just to fill out the QH queue so I can get the refund for continuous RAM. I'm just puzzled why there is this distinction with SB compared to other offensive hacks.

[Nachtflügel]

Originally posted by psionyx:

Yeah but why? Like why does SB do this and others don't? Especially since it doesn't actually specify this is a feature of it. As to your advice on what QH's to use, I'm level 50+ using tier 5++ gear and orange QH's, so it's fine. I mostly use the Sonic Shock just to fill out the QH queue so I can get the refund for continuous RAM. I'm just puzzled why there is this distinction with SB compared to other offensive hacks.

It's about quickness, I guess. When the quickhack instantly kills, there is not enough time to alarm the others. But Overheat takes a couple of seconds, so does Contagion. Short Circuit may kill a drone instantly, but not a human. Only Synapse Burnout can do that. That would be my explanation.

[psionyx]

Originally posted by Nachtflügel:

Originally posted by psionyx:

Yeah but why? Like why does SB do this and others don't? Especially since it doesn't actually specify this is a feature of it. As to your advice on what QH's to use, I'm level 50+ using tier 5++ gear and orange QH's, so it's fine. I mostly use the Sonic Shock just to fill out the QH queue so I can get the refund for continuous RAM. I'm just puzzled why there is this distinction with SB compared to other offensive hacks.

It's about quickness, I guess. When the quickhack instantly kills, there is not enough time to alarm the others. But Overheat takes a couple of seconds, so does Contagion. Short Circuit may kill a drone instantly, but not a human. Only Synapse Burnout can do that. That would be my explanation.

I would agree except Short Circuit totally can drop a human instantly. I guess that's my biggest issue. Like I get it if the damage is over time, thus giving the target time to initiate a trace, but SS and SB both do instant damage, and if it's enough to drop the target, then why the discrepancy? Also I noticed that if a single SB doesn't drop the target, but you have a 2nd one queued up it has the same effect of shutting down the trace. So saying it's because it's instant doesn't hold up to the effects in game. I guess it's just down to killing the brain and cooking it's fleshy bits, makes the cyberware no longer capable of functioning, whereas short circuit, being non-lethal, simply makes the brain go into sleep mode, but the hardware is still running. That's my head canon at this point, as nothing else makes sense from a mechanics standpoint. For all mechanical purposes, SB and SS, if strong enough, function identically. Hmmm, maybe I should test it by slapping on that "all damage is non-lethal" implant, and then using SB and seeing if the effect is the same. *goes to test that*

[[TAG]Alblaka]

Originally posted by psionyx:

As I understand it, Overheat, Short Circuit, and Contagion are the only non-lethal offense hacks.

Little sidenote that those are non-lethal individually, but Contagion + Overheats causes heads to explode in a very much non-non-lethal fashion. Luckily I discovered that on a gig that didn't have mandatory pacifism.

Originally posted by Nachtflügel:

In fact, Sonic Shock is pretty much completely useless.

Sonic Shock is core of my stealth netrunner build, and imho the most powerful (in-lore wise) skill. I mean, you slap a guy with it, and he CEASES TO EXIST in the memory of everyone else (at least subnet-wide). It's cheap, combos well into queue-builds, and means you can just selectively just gun down mobs in the middle of their group without anyone even batting an eyelid. Yes, they'll ignore the corpse, too.

(Tier 4 onwards) Sonic Shock + Memory Wipe + Damage is a non-traced, non-conditional, (and optionally even) non-lethal neutralization that can even be done remotely.

[psionyx]

Originally posted by TAGAlblaka:

Little sidenote that those are non-lethal individually, but Contagion + Overheats causes heads to explode in a very much non-non-lethal fashion. Luckily I discovered that on a gig that didn't have mandatory pacifism.

True, I was simply referring to them individually, not as a combo with each other.

Originally posted by TAGAlblaka:

Sonic Shock is core of my stealth netrunner build, and imho the most powerful (in-lore wise) skill. I mean, you slap a guy with it, and he CEASES TO EXIST in the memory of everyone else (at least subnet-wide). It's cheap, combos well into queue-builds, and means you can just selectively just gun down mobs in the middle of their group without anyone even batting an eyelid. Yes, they'll ignore the corpse, too.

(Tier 4 onwards) Sonic Shock + Memory Wipe + Damage is a non-traced, non-conditional, (and optionally even) non-lethal neutralization that can even be done remotely.

Yeah it is really damn funny when you have 2 goons facing each other and you SS+SB one of them, right in front of the other guy and they just.....don't care

[TOG | pitdog]

Originally posted by psionyx:

Ok so, I've got a sweet little quickhack cycle that lets me obliterate pretty much any enemy I come across. It's an infinite cycle of damage and ram and overclock, and it's really sweet, but one thing I don't understand is why Synapse Burnout works the way it does, compared to say Short Circuit.

So, the cycle:
1. Hit Overclock
2. Hit target with Sonic Shock
3. Hit target with 2 stacks of Synapse Burnout to insure death, though one is almost all that's ever needed.
4. Hit target with System Shutdown for the RAM cost reduction and refund, replenishing my full RAM bar, or darn close.
5. Rinse repeat.

Works great, but what confuses me is when I slap Sonic Shock on the target, it technically starts a trace program, but it's instantly canceled out (actually get the "Failed" notice and the bar vanishes), when the Synapse Burnout is applied.
But when i try to do the same thing, but instead sub in Short Circuit for a non-lethal version, it doesn't cancel out the trace program. Why?
Neither Sonic Shock or Synapse Burnout specifies anything about canceling out the trace program upon death of target, but the reality is that is does do that. So why does it ONLY work with Synapse Burnout and not some other offensive quickhack? And again, neither QH in my cycle says anything about this working like this. It seems to just be an unwritten feature of that QH sequence, that isn't replicated by any other combo.
Anyone got any ideas?

I've never had a issue with it and quite like it to system collapse as it recoups quicker with RAM. the only in game issue is after the 2.2 update things aren't happening as they should / used to.

[Bjørn]

Originally posted by psionyx:

So, the cycle:
1. Hit Overclock
2. Hit target with Sonic Shock
3. Hit target with 2 stacks of Synapse Burnout to insure death, though one is almost all that's ever needed.
4. Hit target with System Shutdown for the RAM cost reduction and refund, replenishing my full RAM bar, or darn close.
5. Rinse repeat.

This is pretty interesting, especially the last part with System Collapse and replenish RAM. Didn't know that was a thing.

But since you mentioned Sonic Shock, there is a combo that is pretty good, once you're high enough level:

Memory Wipe (tier 4) -> Reboot Optics (tier 2) -> Sonic Shock (tier 5 / iconic)

This will render enemies unconscious, without a trace. Not bosses and cyberpsychos, but all others, also 'skulls'.

https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_Shock

It mentions:

The Tier 5 variant causes enemies already affected by Memory Wipe and Reboot Optics to lose consciousness after also receiving Sonic Shock. Increases RAM cost to 6 and upload time to 2 seconds.

The Iconic variant reduces RAM cost from 6 to 2.

So if using an iconic Sonic Shock, the combo has a base cost of 14 RAM (tier 4 Memory Wipe - 10 RAM, tier 2 Reboot Optics - 2 RAM, iconic Sonic Shock - 2 RAM).


(By the way, ALL quickhacks used after Memory Wipe tier 4 (not lower or higher tier) are untraceable, but I think that was mentioned above somewhere.)