I don't like Panam anymore

[Centipede]

When I first met her, I liked her assertiveness. I thought her dialogue is neat and joyful, and she was a spirited lady.

Then when her mission unfolded, I cringed a bit when I saw her being so blase about shooting some people out of the air when the EMP malfunctioned. Didn't much care for her blasty-shooty enthusiasm in a matter involving life and death. After that, she just shot that downed pilot in cold blood. I felt she turned quite callous and cold, and it was a turn off.

What's your perspective on her?

[Das_Noobi]

I love Panam :) nicest ass in the game XD

[V]

İlk olarak Hannah Dune tarafından gönderildi:

These people she is shooting out of the air are corpo's and trained corp security that have also already killed man aldecaldos regularly. kang tao frequently clear out camps with no regard to whos there if that camp is sitting on a strategic point for kang tao to reach its own enemies or if there is a valuable resource there.

not to mention they often force people off of their land bureaucratically from far off night city and the surrounding night city, kang tao is a corp no different from petrochem they have also done the same if not worse to nomads.....aldecaldos often rescue people from the wreckage of many kang tao attacks and also skirmishes between militech and arasaka.

there is a in depth landscape of how these kind of corps are treated by nomads in extension to how these corps treat nomads in general....the law even dictates that anyone is allowed to attack a nomad this is said on some news reals its extremely accepted to view nomads as enemies inherently.....kang tao and other corps use these freedom to displace and kill nomads,,,,,,Panam has already been through allot with V at this point and depending on if the player helps her more than using the option to just do a simple deal and only a deal with panam both choices end up in panam fulfilling her part of the deal....none of this is for no reason,,,,,kang tao have happily killed members of her clan already and they would kill her without hesitation too.

This is night city don't expect no heroes most are born from the dirt or born from high class with no regard to life.

All and all in the end i don't think your opinion is bad because as i think about it you could be a player who is a pacifist and i can understand a playthrough like that and often respect those playthroughs but i'd implore you not to judge panam harshly and understand the different cogs moving.

İlk olarak Boss tarafından gönderildi:

I think this is a case of Stormtrooper syndrome.

It's impossible for some people to regard the "enemy" as human, or imagine them having families. It's impossible for them to imagine that technicians that have never hurt or killed anybody could have been on the Death Star when the whole thing exploded. They cannot imagine the "bad guy" as being anything more than a one dimensional piece of ♥♥♥♥.

Nomads engage in continuously illegal activities and get into turf wars all the time. They are by far not innocent. And those pilots might not have hurt anybody, just worked their asses off their entire lives to become good enough at piloting to land a lucky job, not knowing they're going to be the target of some stupid ♥♥♥♥ one day.

I respect the army, and I approve of labeling others as evil - but there's a difference in making a moral judgement about someone versus dehumanizing them. Cyberpunk 2077 is supposed to depict a gray/black world, and many of the characters definitely fall into this line. But your feelings about Panam aren't wrong; it's very easy to see she took things too far, and your railroaded dialogue doesn't really let you call her out for it.

Respecting enemies that surrender, taking care of PoWs. The very creation of the ROE (Rules of Engagement) for the army help bring humanity to not only our people, but theirs. Heroes typically follow this doctrine in movies...

...But Cyberpunk isn't exactly about Heroes. I think the game is well written and follows its setting well. But it also means the Panam, is indeed, ♥♥♥♥♥♥. And people that say they'd do the same, are also morally bankrupt; or children.

No one said they are innocent but by majority nomad clans do no instigate trouble or jobs against factions that have not already attacked them first....nomad clans only started attacking convoy's due to the fact many of the nomads being ex soldiers for the corpo wars were abandoned and joined or formed nomad gangs....they were aggressed on FIRST for simply existing, the corporate choice to brand nomads as outlaws was done not because nomads were raiding this was done simply because they are nomads you need to understand the lore allot more before saying things like ''They are by far not innocent.'' no one in the night city surrounding area's and night city or further around the west are innocent as i already said before cyberpunk is explicitly not about heroes....further more nomads don't engage in ''turf wars'' the wraiths and other bandits alike pillage literally everywhere and everyone for everything they are not nomads and when nomads do have problems with other nomad clans they are usually settled in a controlled way by whoever actually has the problem clans (a direct example of this is when V's own clan the bakkers becomes consumed by snake nation this wasn't done by senseless killing this was done by the remaining few bakker figure heads deicing to dissolve the clan and merge with snake nation there is a system in place with nomads turf wars do not even happen and if they do they aren't headed by big nomad factions against each other nomads dont fight each other like corpo's...corpo's actually fight turf wars physically in the badlands and bureaucratically until it eventually leads to them sending out troops to physically maintain requisitioned land) Nomads don't usually get involved full throttle in disputes between clan members and other clan's members, and again corpo's are the ones by majority initiating attacks on nomads corpos exterminate more nomads and none nomads across the board due to their access amount of resources to fun their campaigns.

It doesn't really have anything to do with whether the characters are able to see the enemy as human....humanity has nothing to do with it panam nor the other nomads do not disassociate they simply have good reasons to attack these corpo fighters, good reasons for according to their value's....nomads still follow clan rules and the culture of nomads is far more complex and introspective than this analysis you seem to give them....nomads also help stragglers and people caught in the cross fire of corpo turf wars...you even saying nomads have turf wars shows you don't really know what you're talking about with them its corpos doing this its the direct opposite.

Further more no those pilots are not innocent either you seem to forget the whole reason they are even in that AV is because they have stolen a key person from another corpo company arasaka and have made a deal by FORCE for anders helman to either give arasaka secrets and help with relic tech or die...its not a fair deal whatsoever helman is forced to make the deal to save his life from both arasaka and kang tao...these men will take no hesitation to kill a scientist like helman simply because their corpo higher ups tell them to do so.

you should take time to actually read through the data terms or remember the quest because this is spoken on extensively and its also in the shard rogue gives you before you even go on this mission or meet panam....helman himself also speaks on the deal and reveals this timeline of his events.

No one here is innocent and this idea that panam killed poor pilots that wanted to live a decent life working hard and maybe got lucky to get a job with kang tao is just bullcrap i suggest you go and learn about kang tao and even these specific men, all of them in that av are obligated to follow kang tao's order of what to do with helman should he escape....he made the deal but it was a corpo deal its either you deal or die they are no more innocent than a bloody scav hacking joy toy's implants away because their scav haunt leader told them to.

You can speak about rules of engagement but you need to do so within the lore you can't attribute real life army behaviour with cyberpunk's because its far more different good and bad isn't so simple as it isn't in real war ofc ik this....like i said before many of the nomads fought in the wars for the corpo's they understand better than most how these corpo's are and anyone looking for some sort of honor in engaging them should do so in their playthrough by their own actions....if you're going to judge the actions of nomads or panam be sure to actually understand the culture behind this girl and their clan.

Its easy to say what is right or wrong from your perspective because you're not actually referencing the characters correctly its too narrow minded. there is no right or wrong when it comes to corpo's vs nomads...you would only have somewhat of a point if the nomads were aggressing first but they weren't and when they do most of the time its justified because those same corpo's have usually already wiped out one of their camps or robbed them or even imprisoned them into hell jail torture Brain Dances....not to say vengeance or tit for tat is right but its justified in the sense that if done the other side shouldn't even be complaining....corpo's know what they are signing up for and they do not hesitate to kill anyone if it is ordered of them.

there's so much behind all of the exchanges between them and to judge while also outright getting incorrect the profiles of each faction i think shouldn't be done i believe you should understand the dynamic before trying to assign any moral value.

[['w']]

go fast or go home (in a coffin)

[Blame]

I didn't like her too much. Too selfish and whiny. It's been a while since I last did her questline, but if I remember right if you decline meeting her when she wants to she'll ♥♥♥♥♥ your ears off.
Pass.

[Blame]

İlk olarak Syncroniam tarafından gönderildi:

Is this guy actually complaining about Panam being a cold-blooded killer when the protagonists literally guns down hundreds of dudes just so he can stay alive? This is the dumbest post I've seen on here. The fact that people like this exist is mind-boggling.

You can play as a pacifist (non-lethal) as much as the game allows you.
And even so, just because you're playing a character that kills tons of people, you're not inclined to like another character that kills in cold blood.

ie. You're playing a videogame killing baddies for fun, but for the characters in the game they are not playing a videogame, so you can't judge their actions like "they're just killing virtual people in a videogame, the same as you are doing".

[Wander Wild]

One of the things I like about these characters is that I didn't feel like the game was trying to get me to like them by giving them all easily explained personalities or quirks that justifies what they do (with the exception of Jackie, who is the perfect bro, and Misty, who seems like a great friend).

Panam, Kerry, River, and Judy all have flaws that are quite distinct. I won't break down each of them here, but I think they all have serious personality flaws that make seeing through those flaws feel more real and genuine.

[['w']]

When you game as someone who is a killer, you're a killer in game and that should reflect on your chars mental status, like it is represented visually in metal gear solid, when you're bathed in blood and grow demon horns

[Simbolic]

I personally never gave it much thought. So much not sure what your even referring to. I'm a generally a good person always choosing good paths in games. So if that didn't stand out for me then most likely wasn't that bad. All companion characters usually have there reasons. That could have kept from the player. Think your really overlooking it, death is a common theme. That world is just a step up from compete anarchy and chaos.
It's miracle itself that anyone has compassion for people. If you also compared her with other people deeds in the game she is an absolute angel. Your Judging from our context of life which is more obscure. So doesn't even seem that bad depending where you live. Since horrible thing are happening in our world. That alot people aren't aware or know about. Unlike the Cyberpunk world constantly being surrounded by death. Most likely if there weren't any cyber-ware implants having such advancements in technology. Then that world would have already been dead. Or be more like Mad Max everyone surviving for themselves with everything in complete disarray.

[Vela Darney]

The moment I lost any and all sympathy for corpos? When I found a bunch of Arasaka goons who'd slaughered an ENTIRE CAMP of homeless people. Just to get at THAT SINGLE WITNESS to some corpo bullshittery and silence him. They killed him, they killed the entire camp of people just so there wouldn't be any witnesses. I made sure not a single one of those corpo ♥♥♥♥♥ got to go home again. So, seeing stuff like that going on, knowing about corpo war background stuff (basically, corpos using their soldiers, many of them just stupid kids who thought it would be a good idea to sign up, as guinea pigs for new combat stims and cyberware) - no, I have zero mercy for corpos. ANY kind of corpos.

[Blame]

İlk olarak Vela Darney tarafından gönderildi:

The moment I lost any and all sympathy for corpos? When I found a bunch of Arasaka goons who'd slaughered an ENTIRE CAMP of homeless people. Just to get at THAT SINGLE WITNESS to some corpo bullshittery and silence him. They killed him, they killed the entire camp of people just so there wouldn't be any witnesses. I made sure not a single one of those corpo ♥♥♥♥♥ got to go home again. So, seeing stuff like that going on, knowing about corpo war background stuff (basically, corpos using their soldiers, many of them just stupid kids who thought it would be a good idea to sign up, as guinea pigs for new combat stims and cyberware) - no, I have zero mercy for corpos. ANY kind of corpos.

Hey, remember that time that Saburo Arasaka was ready to blow up all of NC to the ground, if he couldn't find the biochip? Heh, cute stuff.

[Wither]

Hmm. The writer did a good job if you guys hate corpo that much...

Of course, not.

Too many inconsistency in the writing. Like Jackie die from blood loss.. Hello? What year is this? You are mercenary, ridding modified tank, have invisible robot, med pack. It would be more believable if he gets his head blown off by those drones chasing you. Not to mention the stupid chip.

The original is a mess. Fill in quest is... a fill in. Like pump and dump, 5 min and you forgot what have you been doing. THE ending is... what? Why don't just remove your brain and place it in cyborg body! Corpo ending is definitely the worse.

[Wither]

You know what is the worst? Jackie ( again ) dual wielding his pistols.
All those excuse the dev give us. Betrayal. Blasphemy.

[Lynma]

Don't forget that she's still undsure at that point of where scorpion is, she's stressed, the aldecados wanted to help survivors of a crash and ended up falling victims of Kang Tao. All arround the camp you can see corpses of Aldecados, how, in this circumstances, can you expect her to be any less than cold blooded when the pilot got her other (and last) friend hostage ?

[Vela Darney]

İlk olarak Blame tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Vela Darney tarafından gönderildi:

The moment I lost any and all sympathy for corpos? When I found a bunch of Arasaka goons who'd slaughered an ENTIRE CAMP of homeless people. Just to get at THAT SINGLE WITNESS to some corpo bullshittery and silence him. They killed him, they killed the entire camp of people just so there wouldn't be any witnesses. I made sure not a single one of those corpo ♥♥♥♥♥ got to go home again. So, seeing stuff like that going on, knowing about corpo war background stuff (basically, corpos using their soldiers, many of them just stupid kids who thought it would be a good idea to sign up, as guinea pigs for new combat stims and cyberware) - no, I have zero mercy for corpos. ANY kind of corpos.

Hey, remember that time that Saburo Arasaka was ready to blow up all of NC to the ground, if he couldn't find the biochip? Heh, cute stuff.

Oh yeah, and from what I gathered from reading background - CLASSIC Saburo move. Tbh, I dislike Hanako a LOT more than Panam, due to ... well ... *points at Corpo ending*

[V]

İlk olarak Blame tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Skree tarafından gönderildi:

what a bunch of soy drinking clusterfluff mentality is this?

WIth an ass like that panam can kill whoever she wants, i am too distracted watching her ass.

Sounds like a thirsty simp mentality. :BL3Thumbsup:

damn right.....queen must be simped on ♥