I don't like Panam anymore

[Centipede]

When I first met her, I liked her assertiveness. I thought her dialogue is neat and joyful, and she was a spirited lady.

Then when her mission unfolded, I cringed a bit when I saw her being so blase about shooting some people out of the air when the EMP malfunctioned. Didn't much care for her blasty-shooty enthusiasm in a matter involving life and death. After that, she just shot that downed pilot in cold blood. I felt she turned quite callous and cold, and it was a turn off.

What's your perspective on her?

[Izzy Wit Da Uzi]

I never had an issue with her. She did what she had to. I would've done the same.

[V]

Originally posted by Centipede:

When I first met her, I liked her assertiveness. I thought her dialogue is neat and joyful, and she was a spirited lady.

Then when her mission unfolded, I cringed a bit when I saw her being so blase about shooting some people out of the air when the EMP malfunctioned. Didn't much care for her blasty-shooty enthusiasm in a matter involving life and death. After that, she just shot that downed pilot in cold blood. I felt she turned quite callous and cold, and it was a turn off.

What's your perspective on her?

These people she is shooting out of the air are corpo's and trained corp security that have also already killed man aldecaldos regularly. kang tao frequently clear out camps with no regard to whos there if that camp is sitting on a strategic point for kang tao to reach its own enemies or if there is a valuable resource there.

not to mention they often force people off of their land bureaucratically from far off night city and the surrounding night city, kang tao is a corp no different from petrochem they have also done the same if not worse to nomads.....aldecaldos often rescue people from the wreckage of many kang tao attacks and also skirmishes between militech and arasaka.

there is a in depth landscape of how these kind of corps are treated by nomads in extension to how these corps treat nomads in general....the law even dictates that anyone is allowed to attack a nomad this is said on some news reals its extremely accepted to view nomads as enemies inherently.....kang tao and other corps use these freedom to displace and kill nomads,,,,,,Panam has already been through allot with V at this point and depending on if the player helps her more than using the option to just do a simple deal and only a deal with panam both choices end up in panam fulfilling her part of the deal....none of this is for no reason,,,,,kang tao have happily killed members of her clan already and they would kill her without hesitation too.

This is night city don't expect no heroes most are born from the dirt or born from high class with no regard to life.

All and all in the end i don't think your opinion is bad because as i think about it you could be a player who is a pacifist and i can understand a playthrough like that and often respect those playthroughs but i'd implore you not to judge panam harshly and understand the different cogs moving.

[Centipede]

I get what you're saying, these guys are not pleasant towards the nomads. I just felt that this was a scared man, and it was unnecessary to be so cold to him, so the way she handled it upset me and changed my view of her.
I suppose I also felt this dissonance because he's not a named character so the game treats him as expendable and doesn't make a big deal out of it. I imagined not a lot of players paid this moment in the game much mind and that kind of bummed me out honestly.

Originally posted by Hannah Dune:

All and all in the end i don't think your opinion is bad because as i think about it you could be a player who is a pacifist and i can understand a playthrough like that and often respect those playthroughs but i'd implore you not to judge panam harshly and understand the different cogs moving.

That's true, I'm trying my best to be mostly nonlethal and do takedowns because it seems to me quite tricky to pass moral judgement on the factions in this over the top violent/survivalist setting. I have been lethal to a handful of enemies, specifically those who torture victims just to film braindances - those ones seemed unredeemable to my personal judgement.

To be fair, I thought this Panam conversation was quite an interesting moment in the game because it actually acknowledges the situation. There's been a few missions so far where there was little regard to the option of being a pacifist, so I appreciated having this debate point.

I'm actually quite engaged with the dialogue and the setting and it takes me out of it whenever I feel that 'it's just a game' or someone treats life and death lightly.

[Zero McDol]

I like her \o/, not much more to it than that really.

Assertive, no prob
Gun ho, no prob
Dependable, excellent
Stubborn, no prob

I can accept all of that about her.

[SalmonFeet]

well its cyberpunk i wont imagine anyone is a nice or even slightly decent person

[ZDuB]

this should be in the story section

[V]

Originally posted by Centipede:

I get what you're saying, these guys are not pleasant towards the nomads. I just felt that this was a scared man, and it was unnecessary to be so cold to him, so the way she handled it upset me and changed my view of her.
I suppose I also felt this dissonance because he's not a named character so the game treats him as expendable and doesn't make a big deal out of it. I imagined not a lot of players paid this moment in the game much mind and that kind of bummed me out honestly.

Originally posted by Hannah Dune:

All and all in the end i don't think your opinion is bad because as i think about it you could be a player who is a pacifist and i can understand a playthrough like that and often respect those playthroughs but i'd implore you not to judge panam harshly and understand the different cogs moving.

That's true, I'm trying my best to be mostly nonlethal and do takedowns because it seems to me quite tricky to pass moral judgement on the factions in this over the top violent/survivalist setting. I have been lethal to a handful of enemies, specifically those who torture victims just to film braindances - those ones seemed unredeemable to my personal judgement.

To be fair, I thought this Panam conversation was quite an interesting moment in the game because it actually acknowledges the situation. There's been a few missions so far where there was little regard to the option of being a pacifist, so I appreciated having this debate point.

I'm actually quite engaged with the dialogue and the setting and it takes me out of it whenever I feel that 'it's just a game' or someone treats life and death lightly.

Totally understandable and i'm glad you even made this post because it shows just how everyone is different and will perceive her actions i find it quite interesting and it can even be said that maybe most players are also on her level of disregarding certain characters lives or anyone's life in this game hahah it really depends on my version of V that i'm playing at the time as i love to role play through the whole game designed on the little bits of backstory i make for them so sometimes i'm evil and sometimes i'm just in between bad and good but i've never played a mostly good character before.

I've only played selfish and loyal types lol! but yes i totally get where you're coming from.

[BudaKhan]

Typical of me, I overlook all of that because of her AOC-like booty.

[cl656]

I personally only liked Jackie. Rest of the characters i don't really have a strong opinion towards.

[Coffee Addict]

judy is the only girl for me

[V]

Originally posted by Annie:

judy is the only girl for me

❤️Queen is Queen❤️

[Bogmore]

Don't think of it as killing a corpo but saving her close friend who has a gun to his head.

Also Kang Tao killed a lot of Nomads just for showing up to try to help, so she is rightfully angry.

[Boss]

Originally posted by Hannah Dune:

Originally posted by Centipede:

When I first met her, I liked her assertiveness. I thought her dialogue is neat and joyful, and she was a spirited lady.

Then when her mission unfolded, I cringed a bit when I saw her being so blase about shooting some people out of the air when the EMP malfunctioned. Didn't much care for her blasty-shooty enthusiasm in a matter involving life and death. After that, she just shot that downed pilot in cold blood. I felt she turned quite callous and cold, and it was a turn off.

What's your perspective on her?

These people she is shooting out of the air are corpo's and trained corp security that have also already killed man aldecaldos regularly. kang tao frequently clear out camps with no regard to whos there if that camp is sitting on a strategic point for kang tao to reach its own enemies or if there is a valuable resource there.

not to mention they often force people off of their land bureaucratically from far off night city and the surrounding night city, kang tao is a corp no different from petrochem they have also done the same if not worse to nomads.....aldecaldos often rescue people from the wreckage of many kang tao attacks and also skirmishes between militech and arasaka.

there is a in depth landscape of how these kind of corps are treated by nomads in extension to how these corps treat nomads in general....the law even dictates that anyone is allowed to attack a nomad this is said on some news reals its extremely accepted to view nomads as enemies inherently.....kang tao and other corps use these freedom to displace and kill nomads,,,,,,Panam has already been through allot with V at this point and depending on if the player helps her more than using the option to just do a simple deal and only a deal with panam both choices end up in panam fulfilling her part of the deal....none of this is for no reason,,,,,kang tao have happily killed members of her clan already and they would kill her without hesitation too.

This is night city don't expect no heroes most are born from the dirt or born from high class with no regard to life.

All and all in the end i don't think your opinion is bad because as i think about it you could be a player who is a pacifist and i can understand a playthrough like that and often respect those playthroughs but i'd implore you not to judge panam harshly and understand the different cogs moving.

I think this is a case of Stormtrooper syndrome.

It's impossible for some people to regard the "enemy" as human, or imagine them having families. It's impossible for them to imagine that technicians that have never hurt or killed anybody could have been on the Death Star when the whole thing exploded. They cannot imagine the "bad guy" as being anything more than a one dimensional piece of ♥♥♥♥.

Nomads engage in continuously illegal activities and get into turf wars all the time. They are by far not innocent. And those pilots might not have hurt anybody, just worked their asses off their entire lives to become good enough at piloting to land a lucky job, not knowing they're going to be the target of some stupid ♥♥♥♥ one day.

I respect the army, and I approve of labeling others as evil - but there's a difference in making a moral judgement about someone versus dehumanizing them. Cyberpunk 2077 is supposed to depict a gray/black world, and many of the characters definitely fall into this line. But your feelings about Panam aren't wrong; it's very easy to see she took things too far, and your railroaded dialogue doesn't really let you call her out for it.

Respecting enemies that surrender, taking care of PoWs. The very creation of the ROE (Rules of Engagement) for the army help bring humanity to not only our people, but theirs. Heroes typically follow this doctrine in movies...

...But Cyberpunk isn't exactly about Heroes. I think the game is well written and follows its setting well. But it also means the Panam, is indeed, ♥♥♥♥♥♥. And people that say they'd do the same, are also morally bankrupt; or children.

[freshandjuicy]

This is why I had no problem telling Saul about her going behind his back and undermining his authority. As a reward he gave me a red Shion Coyote (my favourite car in the whole game) I have no regrets!

[Syncroniam]

Is this guy actually complaining about Panam being a cold-blooded killer when the protagonists literally guns down hundreds of dudes just so he can stay alive? This is the dumbest post I've seen on here. The fact that people like this exist is mind-boggling.