Is V real?

[Silhouette Fleur]

I'm getting Mass Effect 3 vibes with this game, the idea that Shephard was fully taken over by the reapers at the beginning due to what we know of the lore that supports it.

At the start, we follow a young pair of wannabe posers (Jackie and V) who don't know a bad deal when they see one, they talk themselves up and hope outsiders wont see through this, such as Dex, who very much clearly does.
(You'd have to be a real chump wet behind the ears to take his jobs.)

We then later follow how supposedly easy it is to fool your way into an Arasaka hotel, which to be fair is open to anyone rich enough.

After these events, I am pretty sure V is quite dead.
(That V and Jackie even got this far is wild.)

Why I think this is because we're given weeks to live, but find ourselves frantically doing quests to gain recognition, something we should also have an abundance of after that heist.
And assuming we have that, Arasaka goons aught to be on our butts constantly.

The rest reads as a fanboy's OC of meeting everyone of the who is who from Cyberpunk 2020.

And what bothers me further is why V's life matters, but the countless people we zero along the way supposedly don't.

[Liquid Inc]

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

I'm getting Mass Effect 3 vibes with this game, the idea that Shephard was fully taken over by the reapers at the beginning due to what we know of the lore that supports it.

At the start, we follow a young pair of wannabe posers (Jackie and V) who don't know a bad deal when they see one, they talk themselves up and hope outsiders wont see through this, such as Dex, who very much clearly does.
(You'd have to be a real chump wet behind the ears to take his jobs.)

When you have nothing at all, something always inevitably looks better. Dex is an old, well known fixer; Getting a job with him is something the low ranking ganger will never have the chance of, and given the chance of a big payout, what would you pick? Scop stands and popturds, or a Caliburn?
Ofcourse they'd take it.

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

We then later follow how supposedly easy it is to fool your way into an Arasaka hotel, which to be fair is open to anyone rich enough.

With fake ID's, and LOTS of prepwork by T-Bug and co?

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

Why I think this is because we're given weeks to live, but find ourselves frantically doing quests to gain recognition, something we should also have an abundance of after that heist.
And assuming we have that, Arasaka goons aught to be on our butts constantly.

Yes, without the recognition, no one will help V at all.........

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

something we should also have an abundance of after that heist.

...For a failed heist where almost the entire team are dead? It doesn't work that way lol

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

And assuming we have that, Arasaka goons aught to be on our butts constantly.

Had the heist been successful, then maybe, but Arasaka would have simply sent Goro and Oda as the project was a secret one. They would not be sending rank and file goons after V. Too much heat and attention.

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

And what bothers me further is why V's life matters, but the countless people we zero along the way supposedly don't.

V's life matters because A) your V, and B) Those you zero (In quests at least) are not shining examples of humanity...
You might argue neither is V, but that isn't the way you *have* to play V. You can play them much more passively, or you can play them violent and aggressive. The choice is there, so i don't see what your complaining about?

[wesnef]

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

And what bothers me further is why V's life matters, but the countless people we zero along the way supposedly don't.

Because it's a game, and V is the main character / you?

[Graf Erik]

Yes, V dies on that landfill. And then his body is revived by the biochip with a mixture of Vs and Johnnies mind in the brain.

You are given 'a couple of weeks'. Noone specified how many there are exactly.
Enough to think about the thing Dex asks you as an introduction: Do you want to live until you are old and weak, or do you want to go down as a legend?
And thats the entire point here: You will die in the end. Eventually. Definetly. Sooner or later. Vic tells you a few weeks in the beginning, Alt tells you a few month in the end. But what the difference? Does it really matter if V lives a few month or a few years after the end of the story?
All that matters is how you go out. As fckn a Afterlive Legend

As for Arasaka: They are for act 2 lead by Jorinobu. And the absoltulely last things he could possibly want is:
a) Investigate the death of his father and/or find his murderer (cause he's said murderer)
b) Investigate whats happend to the relic and/or what these mercs wanted in his appartment (cause that leads to the fact that he stole it which is the reason he killed his father)

[valium]

The developers of Mass Effect dismissed the indoctrination theory outright, and the theory itself does not hold up to scrutiny.

So you are already off to a bad start.

[Faiza, Star Made Knight]

It feels like you didn't really read or listen to the narration because calling V a poser is one thing (if you choose Corpo at least), but Jackie? He literally ran with the Valentinos and took three to his chest. If he had been a poser their patriarch wouldn't have come to his funeral.

[Nar!]

Originally posted by Faiza, Star Made Knight:

It feels like you didn't really read or listen to the narration because calling V a poser is one thing (if you choose Corpo at least), but Jackie? He literally ran with the Valentinos and took three to his chest. If he had been a poser their patriarch wouldn't have come to his funeral.

100%

[Duilf]

Enjoy the narrative as it is presented. Otherwise... *Warning* the following spoiler may break Sci-fi immersion you have been warned...Take in the fact that it is all simply an intentional MacGuffin, because even if we don't understand all the parts proper science already dictates it can't happen as presented. What is needed to revive a person even a cyborg would require more then something the size of a thumb drive. It doesn't matter if V was dead, or mortally wounded in the landfill the Relic couldn't have revived him enough to be safe for transport. Before someone says "Nano machines creating nano machines" that is scientifically impossible. An objects durability is based on molecular structure, and thickness. Blood cells can only survive in the blood stream as they are incredibly hydrodynamic. Something of Nano size complex enough to do tasks couldn't survive in the blood stream, and probably couldn't survive the electrical charge in other key areas. Now V has a cyber brain not a real brain, but that doesn't fix the issue. A cyber brain that produces less electricity, and heat then a normal one probably wouldn't function nearly as good.

Now here is a counterpoint outside of what I presented working that is still within the realm of scientific possibility. It is possible what a mortally wounding, and/or brain damaging instance in our world isn't the same as one that has developed cyber brains. It stands to reason that other then integration of technology the other main draw of a cyber brain would be that they are less susceptible to permanent damage then a normal brain. In which case all V needed was some surgery before the back up power went dark. Again one core aspect is V suffered the minimum damage from the gunshot wound as Dexter used a crappy gun, and ammo. There have been enough instances of people surviving single shots to the brain before that media has popularized it into a trope.

[Silhouette Fleur]

Originally posted by Liquid Inc:

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

I'm getting Mass Effect 3 vibes with this game, the idea that Shephard was fully taken over by the reapers at the beginning due to what we know of the lore that supports it.

At the start, we follow a young pair of wannabe posers (Jackie and V) who don't know a bad deal when they see one, they talk themselves up and hope outsiders wont see through this, such as Dex, who very much clearly does.
(You'd have to be a real chump wet behind the ears to take his jobs.)

When you have nothing at all, something always inevitably looks better. Dex is an old, well known fixer; Getting a job with him is something the low ranking ganger will never have the chance of, and given the chance of a big payout, what would you pick? Scop stands and popturds, or a Caliburn?
Ofcourse they'd take it.

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

We then later follow how supposedly easy it is to fool your way into an Arasaka hotel, which to be fair is open to anyone rich enough.

With fake ID's, and LOTS of prepwork by T-Bug and co?

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

Why I think this is because we're given weeks to live, but find ourselves frantically doing quests to gain recognition, something we should also have an abundance of after that heist.
And assuming we have that, Arasaka goons aught to be on our butts constantly.

Yes, without the recognition, no one will help V at all.........

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

something we should also have an abundance of after that heist.

...For a failed heist where almost the entire team are dead? It doesn't work that way lol

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

And assuming we have that, Arasaka goons aught to be on our butts constantly.

Had the heist been successful, then maybe, but Arasaka would have simply sent Goro and Oda as the project was a secret one. They would not be sending rank and file goons after V. Too much heat and attention.

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

And what bothers me further is why V's life matters, but the countless people we zero along the way supposedly don't.

V's life matters because A) your V, and B) Those you zero (In quests at least) are not shining examples of humanity...
You might argue neither is V, but that isn't the way you *have* to play V. You can play them much more passively, or you can play them violent and aggressive. The choice is there, so i don't see what your complaining about?

I'm terrible at finding where to put the quote / end quote things and getting them right, so, sorry in advance there.
I appreciate you taking the time to address it all point by point.

"When you have nothing at all, something always inevitably looks better. Dex is an old, well known fixer; Getting a job with him is something the low ranking ganger will never have the chance of, and given the chance of a big payout, what would you pick? Scop stands and popturds, or a Caliburn?
Ofcourse they'd take it. "

Honestly I expect they took this job due to inexperience and over eagerness.
They've done smaller and risky things together for about six months before this, if memory serves.

I think the Sandra Dorset job was more their speed, in terms of sustainability and level of risk, which was still quite dangerous.

Dex's job, maybe it's just me, the player, it all just felt off.
Were this a ttrpg, I'd have turned that quest down just getting involved with Maelstrom.
Punching god with Arasaka tower? Even Dex should have laughed that out of the room.

"With fake ID's, and LOTS of prepwork by T-Bug and co? "

Ok, fair.
How I personally look at this hotel they infiltrate, I'd consider it a low echelon upper class establishment.
For a start, they let a Delemain cab into the place, he's no hovering golden Rolls Royce.
The place caters to independently wealthy business people, but clearly not the who's who of the moneyed world, so it's understandable they don't immediately recognise everyone.
They only have one Spider in the network chair, which while he can handle that job, it should be a team, plus more layers of security.
It's probably right on the edge of what they could accomplish to infiltrate.

"Yes, without the recognition, no one will help V at all........."

I think it's going to take more than a few weeks for a kid with a serious head injury to rack up more street credit than the Arasaka Heist did, and I still think if it was managed it would cause a lot of corpo heat.

"...For a failed heist where almost the entire team are dead? It doesn't work that way lol"

See above, they'd know V was alive, and that relic is ultra valuable.

"Had the heist been successful, then maybe, but Arasaka would have simply sent Goro and Oda as the project was a secret one. They would not be sending rank and file goons after V. Too much heat and attention."

I'm sure they have others they could have sent.
Goro was in the bad books for finding V / potential evidence in the first place.
His honour was probably the only thing standing in the way of him taking the body right back.

"V's life matters because A) your V, and B) Those you zero (In quests at least) are not shining examples of humanity...
You might argue neither is V, but that isn't the way you *have* to play V. You can play them much more passively, or you can play them violent and aggressive. The choice is there, so i don't see what your complaining about?"

I've found, rather strangely, that to the average person, the excuse "not a shining example of humanity" is still not enough to justify a lethal decision without a court hearing.
And true, you don't have to flatline anyone.
Chances are though, you probably kill or get more people killed in the pursuit of your own life than realized by V.

[Silhouette Fleur]

Originally posted by Graf Erik:

Yes, V dies on that landfill. And then his body is revived by the biochip with a mixture of Vs and Johnnies mind in the brain.

That body is suuuuuuuper dead.
I don't think they'd even make it out of a fully locked down Arasaka building alive.
There's also no way Adam Smasher could not rip through a Delamain cab, especially if the driving and crashing experience of one is anything to go by.

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by Silhouette Fleur:

I'm getting Mass Effect 3 vibes with this game, the idea that Shephard was fully taken over by the reapers at the beginning due to what we know of the lore that supports it.

Except the lore doesn't really, not without some creative re-interpretation, that is. It's a fun theory, but ultimately pure "fanon".

[Silhouette Fleur]

Originally posted by Faiza, Star Made Knight:

It feels like you didn't really read or listen to the narration because calling V a poser is one thing (if you choose Corpo at least), but Jackie? He literally ran with the Valentinos and took three to his chest. If he had been a poser their patriarch wouldn't have come to his funeral.

I did indeed listen to Jackie's story.
I also watch his body language during the Maelstrom encounter.
This guy is such a fanboy and is so desperate for recognition within the city.
Padre would have gone to probably any of gang's offrenda's, the man is quite sentimental and caring.

What I see is a young man who is unsure of himself hoping beyond hope that other people don't see the fear in his eyes.
Dum Dum is more "legit" than Jackie.

[Silhouette Fleur]

Originally posted by valium:

The developers of Mass Effect dismissed the indoctrination theory outright, and the theory itself does not hold up to scrutiny.

So you are already off to a bad start.

That's nice of them.
They could do with reading their own pre established lore and what reaper mind alteration looks like according to it.

[Silhouette Fleur]

Originally posted by Duilf:

Enjoy the narrative as it is presented. Otherwise... *Warning* the following spoiler may break Sci-fi immersion you have been warned...Take in the fact that it is all simply an intentional MacGuffin, because even if we don't understand all the parts proper science already dictates it can't happen as presented. What is needed to revive a person even a cyborg would require more then something the size of a thumb drive. It doesn't matter if V was dead, or mortally wounded in the landfill the Relic couldn't have revived him enough to be safe for transport. Before someone says "Nano machines creating nano machines" that is scientifically impossible. An objects durability is based on molecular structure, and thickness. Blood cells can only survive in the blood stream as they are incredibly hydrodynamic. Something of Nano size complex enough to do tasks couldn't survive in the blood stream, and probably couldn't survive the electrical charge in other key areas. Now V has a cyber brain not a real brain, but that doesn't fix the issue. A cyber brain that produces less electricity, and heat then a normal one probably wouldn't function nearly as good.

Now here is a counterpoint outside of what I presented working that is still within the realm of scientific possibility. It is possible what a mortally wounding, and/or brain damaging instance in our world isn't the same as one that has developed cyber brains. It stands to reason that other then integration of technology the other main draw of a cyber brain would be that they are less susceptible to permanent damage then a normal brain. In which case all V needed was some surgery before the back up power went dark. Again one core aspect is V suffered the minimum damage from the gunshot wound as Dexter used a crappy gun, and ammo. There have been enough instances of people surviving single shots to the brain before that media has popularized it into a trope.

I really, truly appreciate the thought you put in here.

True enough that looking at scifi media with a view of scrutiny often breaks it.

And yes, people have survived bullets to the head.

What my thoughts on this are is something that we don't see, I think it's far more likely V and Jackie would have been shredded by security forces in the building.

It's a coin toss on whether or not they'd have survived the meat packing plant, and even then, only if they paid with clean creds.

As a game, I can see why these narrative decisions are made, it's a decent enough story.
As a real life situation? Sure life is stranger than fiction, but it's certainly a wild story.

[Big Daddy-Chan]

You do realize no one knew who V was or could find out since our kiroshi scrambles him out of all cameras, only one that knew was Dex and only our friendly cyber ninja tracked us down and saw our face but didnt seem to get a chance to blow our cover since they turned on him. So how would V have any cred from the heist when our cyber ninja killed one person who knew we were part of it and then that just leaves him, Vik, Misty that know of it remotely. So no one should know that V was involved in the heist.

[Silhouette Fleur]

Originally posted by Big Daddy-Chan:

You do realize no one knew who V was or could find out since our kiroshi scrambles him out of all cameras, only one that knew was Dex and only our friendly cyber ninja tracked us down and saw our face but didnt seem to get a chance to blow our cover since they turned on him. So how would V have any cred from the heist when our cyber ninja killed one person who knew we were part of it and then that just leaves him, Vik, Misty that know of it remotely. So no one should know that V was involved in the heist.

To be quite honest I had forgot what the kiroshi optic was supposed to do for us there.

Lends to my thinking though that V had very little street cred even afterwards, so building it in three+ weeks (estimated amount of time they have to live until full takeover), is absurd.

Regina knows of V pre big job, so that much makes sense, and people hearing of V through Regina's word of mouth and people V saves.

Aside from the payout it seems ridiculous V would accept the Arasaka job for recognition since the optic hides their face.