[SPOILER} girls night out ending

[h3master101]

I personally wouldn't care that Songbird betrayed us if she resembled anything close to a human. She's entirely borg. Can't she just transfer her mind to a new body or something or is that not possible in the canon?

I feel like I gave a robot priority over myself a human. Ehhh.

[Porkhammer]

... "girls night out ending"? I never heard of this.

[Silverbane7]

She can't transfer to another body, no.

Cyberpunk has not yet reached the point where transfer between bodies is commonplace.
(If it had, Saburo wouldn't have needed the Reliquary chip V stole lol)

The parts of her left that are human are her brain and a chunk of spinal column, if memory serves. Those cannot be removed. All 'full borg' people have those parts left, to varying degrees.
(One reason I always empty a full clip into the head n spine of Smasher lol, just to be sure)

But in a few decades or so, I suspect a breakthrough in tech there, and maybe in a hundred years or so, the rich will be hopping from clone to clone at the first sign of a wrinkle, much like the 'Methusala's' of the 'Altered Carbon' universe.

( The 'Girls night out' ending.....lol.... Yeah, I guess the swathe of devastation we leave behind could be likened to a group of drunken party girls on a 'hen night's out XD)

[the smoking mค็็็็็n]

A mind is what defines a human
But still, yes, it needs a human body

[Praxis-W]

A common question that comes up in SciFi, and especially the genre of Cyberpunk is "How much of the human body can be replaced before the individual can no longer be considered Human?" Since it's a philosophical question, people's answers to it vary, but it's an interesting one to consider playing this. Is Silverhand still human? Was David Martinez still human by the end of his story? How about Adam Smasher? Would an individual still be Human if 90% of their body was owned and maintained by their employer?
Food for thought!

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by the smoking mค็็็็็n:

A mind is what defines a human
But still, yes, it needs a human body

To go on a tangent here, yes. And a mind is entirely contained within the brain. Everything that is you is in your brain. There is no ethereal "something" that can be transferred. Copying the entire contents of your brain into software, including memories and personality, wouldn't be transferring YOU into the computer. It would be making a copy that thinks and acts like you and probably believes it IS you. But if the process fries your brain or otherwise kills you, YOU are still dead and it's now a copy of you running around.

Johnny Silverhand is dead. The engram on the chip is just a copy. Even if it thinks and has feelings to the extent that it can be considered "alive", it's not the same Johnny that was in his meat body. I'd even say after Mikoshi, the original V is dead. Alt says V's mind was wiped as part of the process and copied into Mikoshi. V 1.0 is no longer alive. Hell, the V that gets written back into their body isn't the same as the one that was in Mikoshi. So the V in the body is now V 3.0, presumably 2.0 being deleted after the transfer. I can even see an argument with the V after Act 1 not even being the original when the Relic rebooted their brain. Their mind was already in the process of being rewritten by the Relic.

[Actalo]

Even full borgs like Smasher and Lizzy require the basic Central Nervous System (Brain/Spinal Column) to function.

Originally posted by Night Foxx (She/her):

Originally posted by the smoking mค็็็็็n:

A mind is what defines a human
But still, yes, it needs a human body

To go on a tangent here, yes. And a mind is entirely contained within the brain. Everything that is you is in your brain. There is no ethereal "something" that can be transferred. Copying the entire contents of your brain into software, including memories and personality, wouldn't be transferring YOU into the computer. It would be making a copy that thinks and acts like you and probably believes it IS you. But if the process fries your brain or otherwise kills you, YOU are still dead and it's now a copy of you running around.

Johnny Silverhand is dead. The engram on the chip is just a copy. Even if it thinks and has feelings to the extent that it can be considered "alive", it's not the same Johnny that was in his meat body. I'd even say after Mikoshi, the original V is dead. Alt says V's mind was wiped as part of the process and copied into Mikoshi. V 1.0 is no longer alive. Hell, the V that gets written back into their body isn't the same as the one that was in Mikoshi. So the V in the body is now V 3.0, presumably 2.0 being deleted after the transfer. I can even see an argument with the V after Act 1 not even being the original when the Relic rebooted their brain. Their mind was already in the process of being rewritten by the Relic.

The V in Act 2 is still V, the Relic uses 'magical' nanites to repair and jump-start V's system, so to speak. But yeah, I've been arguing for years that players don't understand the implications of Mikoshi and the game allows player to believe continuity of character when there is none. The endings players think are good are actually bad and the bad endings are actually the best for V.

There's a random shard the player can read describing how Engrams aren't even very good copies of humans since they're essentially psychopaths, generally lacking basic human empathy and emotional stability. In many ways, the engram version of someone is a copy of personality with all the usual behavioral limiters, governed by morality and empathy, removed.

[h3master101]

I appreciate the replies guys. I forgot a lot of the little details from the base game story, but I didn't even think about the body swap (kinda) in one of the original endings. Actually pretty obvious now its technically possible even if an engram or whatever isn't a real person. If an engram is just a model of a person then she could technically escape the blackwall poison, but not really her then. Idk.

[Silverbane7]

Originally posted by h3master101:

I appreciate the replies guys. I forgot a lot of the little details from the base game story, but I didn't even think about the body swap (kinda) in one of the original endings. Actually pretty obvious now its technically possible even if an engram or whatever isn't a real person. If an engram is just a model of a person then she could technically escape the blackwall poison, but not really her then. Idk.

Considering the state she is in, I'd say she can't be copied ether.
The Blackwall has corrupted a good chunk of her systems. It's highly possible that, while she can be Soul killed, the copy you would receive at the end would be corrupted.

When you are sneaking to the Oda fight, there is a laptop on the way there (the area with the staircases, one guard moving up and down them, one stood with his back to you)
In that laptop are message files about test subjects for the 'Secure your Soul' programme.
Some of the subjects didn't make it when copied (that is, the copies didn't make it)
Lucky them, they were just back up copies, not the same process as Soulkiller.

I've come to the conclusion that the Neural Matrix really *is* her only option for continued functioning (I say functioning since people have differing agreements of what living/surviving is here)
I imagine my main V, after yeeting her to the moon in the rocket, goes to get a checkup from Vik and ends up having to remove and replace anything with RAM connected to her brain.
( "There's some odd looking readings here, V. Your RAM is... Corrupted. Nothing fatal right now but...It's better you remove the chrome that's showing these odd readings.")
I mean V has enough problems as it is, without adding Blackwall whispers to their brain lol.