Immerse Audio

[Arkus]

I just checked out the demo for the Immerse Gamepack dropping on June 20. It sounds alright, yet I can't help but wonder if it's free, a mandatory push, or a $20 DLC. I know what my inner cynic thinks, but the website was pretty bare bones. Any ideas?

[EmbodyGoblin]

Originally posted by umeng2002:

I still prefer DTS Headphone X over this and Dolby Atmos Headphone. First off, it's $20 for one game. Whereas DTS and Dolby can, in theory, be used with any application. Also, their HRTF distorts the audio more than DTS and Dolby. This program also doesn't output 24 bits or higher than 48 kHz.

Although, their HRTF is quite good for audio placement, it simply highlights the shortcomings in the Red Engine audio stack, namely poorly placed audio objects.

Thanks for giving Immerse a try! We're sorry to hear you are experiencing distorted audio. Immerse was designed in collaboration with the Cyberpunk sound team and should result in a distortion-free listening experience. One thing to look at is your windows sound settings - check that your output device has “Spatial Sound” turned off, as well as any spatial audio settings on your headphone hardware. What happens when you bring the master volume of Cyberpunk down from 100 to 80?

[EmbodyGoblin]

Originally posted by halbermensch999:

Decided not to purchase, it's nowhere near as fun as EAX used to be for games like Thief Gold, 2 and System Shock 2.
There should be no need for webcams either, the engine should support certain settings in certain environments instead

Thanks for checking out Gamepack and we appreciate your feedback on the head tracking portion.

[EmbodyGoblin]

Originally posted by Xeondeth:

Not impressed with the Immersive Audio package.

Well that's a lesson in Try before you Buy, but as it was only $19.99 I'm not really that worried. I downloaded the app, the phone did the ear orientation properly. Then the problems started. I decided to try the head tracking with my Logitech Web Cam on my PC, the app couldn't find it. It saw a USB device but didn't find any visual feed, I flipped the camera just to be sure but nothing! Windows Camera has no such problem and displays images just fine. To compound the problems I decided to set my headphones only to find the Logitech G560 isn't one of the options. The have options to either side of it, just not the model I have. Maybe the G533 will be close enough.
My advise is to download the Trial (As I should have done) and save the money.

We appreciate you trying Gamepack and we're sorry to hear the experience was not a positive one. The culprit could be that the camera is being used by another application such as Logitech Capture - so if you haven't already, try quitting all other camera applications and then retrying. Additionally, there could be applications in the system tray like GHUB that could also hold the camera. Feel free to reach out directly at any point as well at [e-mail]

[EmbodyGoblin]

Originally posted by Bjørn:

Originally posted by Nar!:

I use a wired Razer Kraken headset which also came with a 7.1 spatial app and compared to that, this Immerse app sounds much better. It doesn't sound as muffled up as with the prior.

I also have this headset (edit: I noticed I have the Blackshark V2 X, but same family and such, wired mini-jack), and I didn't like the 7.1 software (THX) that came with it either. It didn't seem to take sound distances into account, for example, and sounds were muffled and messy somehow. It's been a while since I tried the software though, so maybe it has improved, but I've been using Dolby Atmos for it instead. I also prefer that over DTS.

I'm not sure if this Immerse app takes advantage of the 7.1 abilities of the headset, but it's much better than any of the other software I've tried (at least to my ears), and since I still haven't completed the game, and plan on playing it a few more times over the years I'll probably end up buying this after some more testing (not been too much in the city or Dogtown with it yet, mainly Badlands).

Hey Bjorn, thanks for checking out Immerse Gamepack. We're glad to hear you're enjoying the audio experience! We actually recommend disabling any onboard headphone spatialization as we can't account for how it will interact with the software.

[EmbodyGoblin]

Originally posted by Nar!:

@n050up4u
How did you compare it?
Are you drawing comparisons from youtube videos?
It's hard to draw accurate sounds through it's compression system even at high resolution.

I ended up buying the full version to see what the purchased app would unlock.
It opened up more options, like sonar positioning and sensitivity as well as a profile system tied directly to my account.
Their standard HRTF is actually quite good with the game, as it seems to have been tailored just for Cyberpunk 2077. I haven't scanned my own profile just yet but I will be doing that later this week after I'm done with my work, to see if there's any notable differences.

I use a wired Razer Kraken headset which also came with a 7.1 spatial app and compared to that, this Immerse app sounds much better. It doesn't sound as muffled up as with the prior.

It does a good job at tracking certain sounds, from enemy shootouts to police sirens and even mechanical elements throughout (vending machines, etc) and vehicles. But these experiences seem to vary, depending on what you're using and if it's wireless or not.
Some have claimed sound crackling or lagging.

I've been testing this for several hours yesterday in various parts of the city and it's even more impressive in Dogtown.

I won't say this is a must have because the audio in the game is still very good on its own, but if you're a hardcore fan of the game (like moi) and use no other spatial software, then this might be cool to play with.

Unless you know.. you have a problem spending 20 measly dollars to support Embody's work for our community of cyberpsychos. ಥ_ಥ
By the way, despite the default HRTF seemingly being tailored for Cyberpunk, it actually works fine with other games too. Though, I wouldn't use it for all games. I like the way some games sound without spatial effects.

Hey Nar! thanks for purchasing Immerse Gamepack. We're happy to hear you're enjoying your experience, and look forward to hearing what you think after comparing the universal HRTF to your personalized one - especially in Dogtown!

[halbermensch999]

Originally posted by EmbodyGoblin:

Originally posted by halbermensch999:

Decided not to purchase, it's nowhere near as fun as EAX used to be for games like Thief Gold, 2 and System Shock 2.
There should be no need for webcams either, the engine should support certain settings in certain environments instead

Thanks for checking out Gamepack and we appreciate your feedback on the head tracking portion.

Since you're active here as well, I should point out this is also largely because I'm mostly done with the game. I've already spent about 400 hours with it. Had it come with the DLC it would have been a good idea to purchase them together, but as it's now it's a bit late to the game so to speak.

[󠀡󠀡]

Wait, they're selling an audio update? What on earth? It's not like a story DLC, it's literally just an update to the games sound engine.

[Titan Awaken]

Originally posted by EmbodyGoblin:

We at Embody hear your concern and appreciate your thoughts on the matter. The best way to think about Immerse Gamepack is to view it as a virtual surround sound environment. The product allows players who don't have surround capability to enjoy that experience in headphones. So it's not that you're paying for superior audio so much as you're paying to have access to tech that can simulate surround spaces in headphones, at a much lower cost than if you wanted to purchase a physical surround setup.

The reason Gamepacks feature specific games is so that we can go a step further in optimizing the spatial experience for those game. We did work closely with the sound team at CDPR on this launch to make sure it was the best possible spatial audio experience it could be.

Thanks for the response (definitely not everyday that a person receives a direct response lol).

The reasoning is solid and to the point but there’s still one remaining (very glaring) question:

How do you justify the $19.99 USD price tag in relation to Phantom Liberty’s $29.99 USD price tag? At two-thirds of the cost of Phantom Liberty, which cost 370 million PLN (or approx. $90 million USD)[x.com] to produce according to CD Projekt, isn’t the $19.99 USD price tag very steep in comparison both relatively and absolutely?

I don’t know how much this audio-pack cost to produce and nor am I or other members of the public privy to that information but it probably didn’t cost 2/3rds of PL or ~$60 million USD to produce, surely. That would be untenable from a business perspective.

[Jeff From Marketing]

Originally posted by EmbodyGoblin:

Originally posted by Titan Awaken:

You’re missing the point.

I never called the quality of the product into question; if CDPR is willing to officially attach its name to this product, chances are it is of pretty high quality (obviously there’s no chance ANY company would attach its name to any random, hastily cobbled together hack-job third party product).

What I am calling into question is the practice itself of monetizing game audio. As I said before, monetizing an OST is totally fine because it’s functionally no different than selling an album. But to monetize better audio mixing sets an insidious precedent. Audio is literally the only major aspect of games that hasn’t (yet) been monetized to hell and back and I do not want that to change.

This is only compounded by the fact that Embody operates on a per game basis meaning you have to pay a flat cost for EACH game that the software is available for. At the very least with Dolby Atmos, for example, it is a one time fee and you can use it for any game you own. So let me pose another question:

Would you like the games industry to normalize the practice where you, the end user, pay on a per game basis for superior audio mixing?

///

The “it’s optional” argument has never really been a good rebuttal for microtransactions. If it was truly optional, why not give us an option to unlock [X feature] in the game through normal progression?

It’s about $$$.

We at Embody hear your concern and appreciate your thoughts on the matter. The best way to think about Immerse Gamepack is to view it as a virtual surround sound environment. The product allows players who don't have surround capability to enjoy that experience in headphones. So it's not that you're paying for superior audio so much as you're paying to have access to tech that can simulate surround spaces in headphones, at a much lower cost than if you wanted to purchase a physical surround setup.

The reason Gamepacks feature specific games is so that we can go a step further in optimizing the spatial experience for those game. We did work closely with the sound team at CDPR on this launch to make sure it was the best possible spatial audio experience it could be.

I'm sorry, but that's actually not good enough of an answer for me. Hardware cost shouldn't even be part of the equation, considering high end headphones can cost as much as a surround sound solution. Some headphones even prefer an amp to run smoothly, already adding additional hardware cost. My audio setup with just headphones and an amp would've cost over $2,500 AUD had I not gotten both of those on large discounts.

So instead, you have to compare the value to other existing software solutions, as well as to the actual game itself. As it stands now, $30 AUD is damn near the price of the full game when it's on sale (as it is right now) and I can very well guarantee it doesn't provide that value of content. I can get fully fledged entire games for less than that price. It's not even like if I pay that money, I then get continuing value for other games, because it only applies to the one game you buy it for, which makes the value for money even worse.

This is coming from someone who is already annoyed that things like Dolby Atmos and DTS: X cost money. I have the bloody hardware, just let me use it without trying to nickle and dime me out of every dollar. Are you just upset that I spent the money on the hardware, and that didn't go directly into your pocket?
But at least with those two, those work on everything, and are cheaper to boot. Dolby is only $22, and it would work for every game I play, as well as additional pieces of media.

I love good audio, I wouldn't have spent significant money on good audio equipment if I didn't! I don't like being treated like a sucker because I enjoy good audio, and that's what this (and all audio software solutions like it) come across as to me. To put it in other terms: It'd be like asking me to pay for the slicing program just so I can use the 3D Printer I bought. Or asking me to pay for RGB software for the keyboard/mouse that I already bought. Or even just asking me to pay for drivers in general for hardware that I have. It's stupid, and it shouldn't be normalised for audio.

[Titan Awaken]

Originally posted by Jeff From Marketing:

So instead, you have to compare the value to other existing software solutions, as well as to the actual game itself. As it stands now, $30 AUD is damn near the price of the full game when it's on sale (as it is right now) and I can very well guarantee it doesn't provide that value of content. I can get fully fledged entire games for less than that price. It's not even like if I pay that money, I then get continuing value for other games, because it only applies to the one game you buy it for, which makes the value for money even worse.

This is coming from someone who is already annoyed that things like Dolby Atmos and DTS: X cost money. I have the bloody hardware, just let me use it without trying to nickle and dime me out of every dollar. Are you just upset that I spent the money on the hardware, and that didn't go directly into your pocket?
But at least with those two, those work on everything, and are cheaper to boot. Dolby is only $22, and it would work for every game I play, as well as additional pieces of media.

I love good audio, I wouldn't have spent significant money on good audio equipment if I didn't! I don't like being treated like a sucker because I enjoy good audio, and that's what this (and all audio software solutions like it) come across as to me. To put it in other terms: It'd be like asking me to pay for the slicing program just so I can use the 3D Printer I bought. Or asking me to pay for RGB software for the keyboard/mouse that I already bought. Or even just asking me to pay for drivers in general for hardware that I have. It's stupid, and it shouldn't be normalised for audio.

Thanks, this is what I’ve been trying to articulate.

There’s very little to question about the quality of the product itself but rather the practice of monetising a surround sound experience is where my concerns lie.

As you said, the physical hardware to emulate a surround sound space is already present in most people’s PCs so the software (like this one and Atmos) is effectively a digital key that you need to cough up some extra cash to unlock the hardware. It’s like how some car manufacturers are limiting the features (like heated seats, acceleration) of their new car models behind a subscription.

Can’t say I’m too thrilled about the prospect of being wringed for every penny and dime.

Edit: Also at least with something like ray-tracing, for example, there’s a hardware reason why it’s locked to RT capable GPUs only. Ray-tracing gives me better lighting just as this software gets me a better audio experience but the difference is without a dedicated GPU with RT cores, your RT performance on a non-RT GPU is going to be atrociously bad. Meanwhile my ASUS headphones, which are physically capable of directional audio, can’t take full advantage of its capabilities because of an artificial software program requesting that I should open up my wallet.

Does that not low-key sound like a softer version of ransom to anybody?

[Porkhammer]

@EmbodyGoblin would this be of any use to me with a basic onboard soundcard paired with regular HyperX Cloud II headphones?

[EmbodyGoblin]

Originally posted by Porkhammer:

@EmbodyGoblin would this be of any use to me with a basic onboard soundcard paired with regular HyperX Cloud II headphones?

Absolutely! There's onboard headphone EQ for the Cloud II's as well so give it a shot and see what you think.

[Porkhammer]

Originally posted by EmbodyGoblin:

Originally posted by Porkhammer:

@EmbodyGoblin would this be of any use to me with a basic onboard soundcard paired with regular HyperX Cloud II headphones?

Absolutely! There's onboard headphone EQ for the Cloud II's as well so give it a shot and see what you think.

Thanks, will definitely try it out. :)

[EmbodyGoblin]

Originally posted by Titan Awaken:

Originally posted by Jeff From Marketing:

So instead, you have to compare the value to other existing software solutions, as well as to the actual game itself. As it stands now, $30 AUD is damn near the price of the full game when it's on sale (as it is right now) and I can very well guarantee it doesn't provide that value of content. I can get fully fledged entire games for less than that price. It's not even like if I pay that money, I then get continuing value for other games, because it only applies to the one game you buy it for, which makes the value for money even worse.

This is coming from someone who is already annoyed that things like Dolby Atmos and DTS: X cost money. I have the bloody hardware, just let me use it without trying to nickle and dime me out of every dollar. Are you just upset that I spent the money on the hardware, and that didn't go directly into your pocket?
But at least with those two, those work on everything, and are cheaper to boot. Dolby is only $22, and it would work for every game I play, as well as additional pieces of media.

I love good audio, I wouldn't have spent significant money on good audio equipment if I didn't! I don't like being treated like a sucker because I enjoy good audio, and that's what this (and all audio software solutions like it) come across as to me. To put it in other terms: It'd be like asking me to pay for the slicing program just so I can use the 3D Printer I bought. Or asking me to pay for RGB software for the keyboard/mouse that I already bought. Or even just asking me to pay for drivers in general for hardware that I have. It's stupid, and it shouldn't be normalised for audio.

Thanks, this is what I’ve been trying to articulate.

There’s very little to question about the quality of the product itself but rather the practice of monetising a surround sound experience is where my concerns lie.

As you said, the physical hardware to emulate a surround sound space is already present in most people’s PCs so the software (like this one and Atmos) is effectively a digital key that you need to cough up some extra cash to unlock the hardware. It’s like how some car manufacturers are limiting the features (like heated seats, acceleration) of their new car models behind a subscription.

Can’t say I’m too thrilled about the prospect of being wringed for every penny and dime.

Edit: Also at least with something like ray-tracing, for example, there’s a hardware reason why it’s locked to RT capable GPUs only. Ray-tracing gives me better lighting just as this software gets me a better audio experience but the difference is without a dedicated GPU with RT cores, your RT performance on a non-RT GPU is going to be atrociously bad. Meanwhile my ASUS headphones, which are physically capable of directional audio, can’t take full advantage of its capabilities because of an artificial software program requesting that I should open up my wallet.

Does that not low-key sound like a softer version of ransom to anybody?

Hey guys, thank you for your responses. Most of this falls outside the purview of Embody's role in this forum—which is primarily to help answer questions about the product and provide support to those who need it. I will try to answer the best I can without getting too deep into the marketing side of things.

Firstly, let me address the comment around why hardware should have no bearing on the price of software. We agree; the comment in our post around us offering a virtual surround environment, for a price substantially lower than that of a physical setup, was not meant to convey that we price our software based on hardware costs. We do not.

The price of Gamepack was decided on by the marketing team. I'm forwarding their response here: "We priced the CP2077 Gamepack at the same price of our FFXIV Gamepack, which we’ve been selling since December 2021. Over the years, we’ve seen the price and the value/enjoyment players receive to be a good balance. But we’re continually monitoring players’ response to the price, and will make adjustments if necessary."

Thank you again for your comments. We rely on your feedback to make our products the best they can possibly be.

[Robert Kosten]

Originally posted by EmbodyGoblin:

Thank you again for your comments. We rely on your feedback to make our products the best they can possibly be.

Any chance you can nudge CDPR towards supporting TrackIR-style headtracking? The tech on your end is clearly already essentially able to :-)