Cyberpunk 2077 Ultimate Edition Review *Minor Spoilers*

[thelebk]

Platform: Played on Windows 11 PC (Medium Quality), patch 2.11, no mods.

Bottom Line: 85/100. Cyberpunk 2077 is a first person shooter with excellent production values which at times is immersive enough to make you think you are playing a CRPG. It is entertaining and worth the price point.

Bias up front: Genres I prefer are RPG, War games, Strategy, 4X, Resource Management, Simulation.

Strengths:

(1) Good over all frame rate and performance on just a mid grade PC and graphics card.
(2) Plenty of action and compelling sound track.
(3) 3D models well done with strong voice acting throughout.
(4) Compelling story line that drives the main plot forward.
(5) Cyberpunk setting faithfully created. I believe William Gibson, the creator of the genre would be pleased.
(6) Integration of the famous rocker Johnny Silverhand into the player character is interesting, and gives us a view of what William Gibson meant with the "Dixie Flatline" in Neuromancer.
(7) Keanu Reeves deserves special props in this. He really embraced the cyberpunk world in many of his film roles and did an outstanding job here. He's had some rough times IRL, good to see him doing so well.
(8) Use of Easter eggs appropriate, and not excessive.
(9) Wide variety of weapons and vehicles
(10) Excellent variety of Cyberware which is implemented well. I really felt I was going to the clinic in Chiba to get the proverbial upgrade to stay competitive in the mean future of 2077.
(11) Multiple Homes you can purchase a plus.
(12) Good implementation of the modern texting communication style.
(13) Characters are interesting and diverse which speaks to good writing.
(14) Sufficient variety in the perk tree to encourage replay.
(15) Sufficient number of side quests to allow the player some freedom of choice.
(16) At least one romance interest for every gender preference.
(17) Three dimensional world encourages exploration and adds nuance to GIG approach.
(18) The occasional non-combat mission which introduces the player to the everyday aspects of life in 2077 were quite immersive.
(19) Ending credits to Phantom Liberty were outstanding and reminiscent of a high end James Bond movie.

Opportunities:

(1) While the game has been out for years it still has a few bugs and wonky behavior (health items regularly unequipped [Fixed], moving/falling through objects, incorrect vehicle physics, etc.)
(2) For those who are RPG fans, the biggest opportunity is to move the game away from the traditional first person shooter game play model. At present the best solution to almost every mission and scenario is to kill everything that moves, loot the bodies, then loot every container. Rinse Repeat. This becomes repetitive and is one of the reasons I do not like Doom/ Unreal style games. There are no charisma boy approaches to problems, and stealth is so inefficient an approach that the game has to force the player to use it once in a while with special missions that impose penalties for detection.
(3) The economy needs improvement. In early editions eddies were somewhat difficult to come by. At present the player will have more money than they can spend quickly. Cyberware and Quickhack specs are just about the only thing worth buying. I finished the game with 5.3 million eddies because there was nothing to buy in the second 50% of the game other than another car with no useful features that I did not need or want. The goal should be for the player to have at least three good things to spend their money on at any point in the game to force choices and add replay. Some suggestions: Allow donations to charity with in game effects, use money to influence politics, use money for legwork and hired guns, use money for research and development, use money to build a spy network, buy better food, special membership to elite clubs, etc.
(4) Cyberpunk is not a CRPG in the traditional sense. There is no calendar, limited weather, the patterns of life don't change, There is no mechanic to develop and improve long term relationships (You simply do a character's storyline and that's it), you do not need to sleep, eat, bathe, or anything else. No one contacts you by email, you dont have to pay rent (a main theme of the cyberpunk genre is getting enough scratch to pay the bills and have a place to sleep; this is missing here) Some titles develop a "Survival Mode" DLC to add this in.
(5) The Metro currently serves no purpose in the game. Perhaps forcing players to go to new regions by metro first before unlocking them by car would be useful. There are no missions which require the player to ride the metro and there is no advantage to doing so.
(6) Street cred is not used very often in the game. Its easy to get to max 50 quickly. All it does at present is unlock a few items and gigs. It has no role in conversation, influence, access, etc.
(7) Its not intuitive that the only way a player can see current status effects on V is to hit alt to go into weapon view. This should be in the character menu or some other logical place.
(8) There is no way to upgrade/ customize player homes. Bethesda Softworks is good at this type of thing, see Skyrim for example.
(9) There are no associations of any kind to join. Bethesda Softworks is good at this type of thing-- they use guilds.
(10) The initial backgrounds for the characters are too short and not immersive enough. further they have no real impact on the game. You do not get starting equipment, eddies, or even contacts from you background. Nor does it open any special mission trees (a single one-off small mission only) Dragon Age Origins implemented this concept more effectively years ago with a much smaller budget.
(11) The player gets so many weapons and is so rich in short order that they need to be able to sponsor organizations. I'm confident I had enough money and firepower in game to equip an Army capable of conquering all of Dog Town. Hmm wonder if Mr. Hands would put a contract out on me!
(12) We are missing a number of character classes that were part of the original Cyberpunk game produced by R. Talisorian Games. There are no playable Rocker Boys, Riggers, Corpos, etc. Even Shadowrun had more playable class options.
(13) There are only a couple of choices in the entire game that make any real difference.
(14) The mission hook of "I can cure you!" is overused in the game. The only way to do anything about the relic is to do the final mission with Hanako. Everything else is misrepresentation or outright lies. There is no game mechanic which will allow these missions to give V temporary reprieve for his condition. Thus the player is roped into mission after mission where he knows he will ultimately receive none of the compensation he is promised.

Big thanks to the developers for all the hard work and love they put into this title!

[Vellari]

You know, actual reviews are a thing?

[Sam87]

Sir this is a wendys.

[Silverbane7]

a chunk of these can be fixed by mods (just saying)

(2) can be fixed a little by a mod called 'stealth runner' (currently being worked on due to changes from 1.6 to 2.0+) which rewards full stealth gameplay.
(8) there are multiple mods that upgrade Vs H10 apartment, some of which are modular tho many are not.
(9) a mod called 'gangs of NightCity' fixes this by adding multiple spawn locations for gang fights, adds roaming vehicle gangs. Allows V to join a gang faction. Has a gang against gang faction system similar to how gangs come after V in 2.1 if you went in hard on a particular gig's gangoons or killed gang targets.

so, the Metro was added in 2.1 because we asked, begged and pleaded for it over and over again, from the very start of 1.0 and on finding that the Metro was cut from the game.

the Metro Mod was the answer to this.
It serves its own purpose because, unlike the one they gave us in game, it let you ride continually.
you could get on anywhere and just hop on/off or stay on depending on where you wanted to go.
It let you ride to the Coyote Cojo when your car is broken (or if you prefer to roleplay that you don't want to drink and drive, like me lol)
It let you walk about on the platforms, tho it only used the Bus interior from the Temperence ending, and you had to sit still.
It even had a cheat mode that let you force unlock the Metro in act 1 (i have never tried it, but it is still there in the options)

Originally there was to be 4 'rolls' from the tabletop. we only got to see 'Solo' and 'Netrunner'. iirc there was a 3rd edition hybrid type roll that was part netrunner, part another roll. i can't remember clearly, but i think Techie, Cop or Corpo were the other choice.
This became 'lifepaths' in the later part of development.
I think they decided that forcing players down the specific 'roll's' of the tabletop would limit the playerbase (i think that was the suits idea, not the developers. Narrower focus on more RPG elements would, in their eyes, reduce the playerbase and cut the cash they hoped to get)

question..what is a 'Riggers'?
we do get the roll of Corpo's, tho it is again, a 'lifepath' not a roll. the same as the Nomad roll is now a 'lifepath' infact, only 'streetkid' is the odd one out as being an actual lifestyle.

[thelebk]

@Silverbane7 Fantastic comments Silver! I will definitely look out for the mods you suggest next time a I do a playthrough. I assume mods disable achievements? I think there are ways the metro could be used to make a stealthy entry or get away by losing yourself in the crowd etc. There could be underground areas only accessible via subway (Lex Luthor's lair anyone?) etc. Gangs are not the most appealing faction I would want to join, but it is at least something. "Riggers" are a character class that specializes in using/ upgrading/ deploying drones. They also drive vehicles by the matrix so they are the best drivers as well. Drones are expensive so this would give players something meaningful to spend those piles of Eddies on. Another class that Catalyst games introduced in Shadowrun (that I never cared for) was the "Technomancer". Technomancers are able to enter the matrix without a deck and use "sprites" that do specific things like netrunner programs.

[Bogmore]

These forums aren't really for reviews. The store page has a review section.

[thelebk]

@Bogmore and how much discussion of specific line items is generated in that venue?

[Zebedee]

Originally posted by thelebk:

Cyberpunk game produced by R. Talisorian Games. There are no playable Rocker Boys, Riggers, Corpos, etc. Even Shadowrun had more playable class options.

Making them distinctly worthwhile to play is the problem, especially with a first person ARPG centred around cinematic moments. They originally intended to have netrunner and techie build archetypes but decided to merge them for design purposes because they ended up playing so similarly. Some of the issues you mention stem from them implementing the three* archtypes they did and also allowing for a lot of flexibility on how those builds are done. eg Three distinct routes just all blurring into one. And dialogue solutions just lacking a bit of punch to make their consequences feel meaningful for many players.
*well four archetypes if you count building things to allow for a '♥♥♥♥ at everything' archetype

Phantom Liberty is an evolution on with some of the ideas on designing around archetypes, and improved too by being willing to invest in the work needed to support making each archetypal build feel like it has a pay off.

Really fascinated to see how they build on Phantom Liberty having had chance to take feedback. And also on how this all crosses over into the new Witcher trilogy.

[Silverbane7]

No, using mods does not disable your ability to get achievements.

I take it you have only just started to play the game recently?
Do you have ether a second ssd drive or normal hard drive? If so, and you have the patience and broadband to do it, I'd suggest a little option.
Since you enjoy other ways to play, you could try the older version of the game, which opens up earlier mods that no longer work.

There is an older version available via the beta branch on steam.
Opt into '1.63 legacy' version in the settings.
It has the same storyline as this version, but the game systems are slightly different.
The skill tree is split into separate tabs (2 or 3 per attribute) armour is gained by clothing, not cyberware. Difficulty is by area zone, not level scaling. Crafting is slightly different.
Many more builds are available and viable in the older version, and some feel there were more RPG elements to this older version.

The reason I asked about another drive is, you can copy the whole game folder for cyberpunk to another HDD (or, a different part of a big enough main drive) and play it from the .exe file.
This allows you to mess around with a bunch of older mods that no longer work in 2.0+ due to the changes made.
(Saves are kept in a different place tho. Back up your saves ether someplace else, or one folder up, if like me, you enjoy multiple playthrus or versions of the basegame)
This was how I moved up to 1.63 and 2.0+ myself, since I didn't want to loose my older version, but wanted to try the newer systems.
I copied my 1.61 modded folder over to my dedicated cyberpunk ssd, then cleaned the main version of mods and went up to 1.63 legacy.
Then, copied that folder also over so I would have a vanilla, un modded version backup.
Then, installed 2.0+ (2.02 in my case, where I still am now lol)

I play via a shortcut to the 'cyberpunk 2077.exe' on my desktop, with my game set not to update via steam until I play it via steam. This bypasses the steam launcher so it won't patch. It can't patch the game in other folders outside of steam or on other drives (hence my dedicated cyberpunk ssd lol)

The downsides of using 1.63 legacy are you cannot get achievements and you cannot play phantom liberty. But the upsides are, you get the older system.


Some of the best mods (in my personal opinion) were older mods, ones we lost with the 2.0+ upgrade.
The economy of the game is different in 2.0+ to 1.63. Clothing and guns did not cost as much. It was harder to make money via normal gameplay.

Some of the better mods for 1.63 were
https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/4520
Drone Companions
(Your 'Rigger' from Shadowrun) allows you a special 'tech deck' that replaces cyberdeck or Sandevistan operating system, allowing you to use drones, mech's and robots as companions.

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/7616
Stealthrunner Stealth Gameplay expansion.
A new way to play stealth, it allows for a total sneak based approach to the game. You are rewarded for being a sneaky stealth ninja much more than in the game now. More gameplay opportunities via the new additional stealth skill tree.

Unfortunately, one of the best mods I used to use, 'StreetStyle' in now a hidden mod, and can no longer be downloaded.
It used the games clothing system to change certain aspects of gameplay by adding a 'style' system.
Each item of clothing in game was given a 'style' from one of the 4 main clothing styles.
Entropisme, Kitsch, Neo-Kitsch or Neomilitarism.
It also added secondary tags for the different factions like the gangs, corps and police.
Each item had a +1 to +5 attribute buff for all 5 attribute. It then rounded the overall average down to give you the overall buff your clothing gave you.
You also got a buff from 'style' for wearing more of the same style. You could get up to +5 'style' which added on to your attribute score for skill and conversation checks.
The mod maker changed the minimums for the checks, though, so it wasn't as easy to cheese it with clothing.

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/3015
Skillfull- Skills always gain exp.
One of the first things that annoyed me was that skills stopped gaining exp when they reached the cap of their corresponding attribute. This fixed it without being too 'cheaty' since while you could train the skills past their attribute cap, you still needed to invest the attribute points in to be able to pick the skills. Paired best with the next mod.

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/2909
Custom Level Cap.
(Still works a bit in 2.0+ but it causes cyberware to vanish from ripperdoc inventories when you pass lvl 50 in basegame and lvl60 in expansion, without a patch)
It let you level past the old level 50 minimum. Most of us capped out at lvl69 of course lol. But that allowed for a more flexible build since you could get 3 attributes to 20, but still meant you had to pick and choose.

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/2217
lifepath Bonuses and Gang-Corp traits.
(Version 3.6.0 for game version 1.63, version 4.0.0 for game version 2.0 and newest version for game version 2.1)
Both a difficulty mod and a change up mod. It changes how the player character gains exp, street cred and money from gangs, corpos ect. Changes different gang, corpo and cops by giving them different abilitys, vulnerabilitys and disadvantages.
V's lifepath matters here because it sets who V is familiar fighting against versus unfamiliar with.
A streetkid knows the gangoon weaknesses, but is unfamiliar wth the Corpo's, while a Corpo knows their fellow corpo-rats well but isn't as able to beat gangs.
You gain less street cred from familiar foes, but they are easier to take down.

[thelebk]

@Zebedee Good points all, thanks for your comments. Rocker Boys and Corpos are fun to play in Cyberpunk PnP, but the street samurai (solos) were always favored. If we can make it work in PnP we can make it work in computer games with some thought. For instance, the Rocker boy contact base is huge and they always have some flunkie willing to do any non-suicidal activity their idol directs. This has amazing implications for legwork, distractions, gathering information etc. They are also charisma boys able to solve many problems without violence. "Gee Mr. Silverhand I'm not supposed to let you into the Biotechnica R&D department but... Would you sign this autograph for my son? He's a huge fan" The distraction of a mob could come in handy in a number of missions, and of course the Rocker Boy has the power of the press at his finger tips... And of course he *always* gets the babes. I think we could find the fun here. From a technical standpoint its important we recognize the lines between traditional computer game genres have become progressively blurred. Most games today are hybrids. When Sierra released Birthright in 1997 is was a new beast. Was it a CRPG? An Empire Building Game? A turn-based Wargame? YES. previously these were all separate genres. In Birthright the Gorgon's Alliance you got all three games in one. Working all of these genres added technical challenges to the product which ultimately led to too many bugs. (Development budgets were mush smaller back then as were the teams) Having three platform changes during the development period also added to the title's woes. With modern computers and budgets its not hard to make Hybrid games. Diablo for instance combines CRPG with Arcade. There are many factions in Cyberpunk 2077, and it would not be difficult to create a parallel game of conflict at the organization level similar to Steve Jackson's classic Illuminati. Arasaka v.s Militech v.s. Biotechnica v.s. 6th Street etc etc. As those factions battle it out at the operational level laying on top of the tactical FPS, the world would change as some factions gain and others lose. How many recruits and how much cash do you think a talented Rocker Boy could bring to one of these factions to tip the balance? You get the idea. Similar logic could be applied to the "Corpo" archetype to make it fun to play. Can you imagine the high level Corpo being able to just hit a button on his comlink and a Megacorp dropship lands and spews out commando allies almost anywhere on the map? He may not need to hack access codes, his Intel buddies could just hand him the codes. He would also have access to unique prototype equipment and cyberware that was not for sale at any ripperdoc... You get the idea.

/Concur that Phantom Liberty was a progressive improvement over the base game. I too am curious to see where it goes from here. Any sense of the next paid DLC and release?

[thelebk]

@Silverbane7 Awesome comments, much appreciated. You are correct that I only recently started playing Cyberpunk 2077. I had a gifted copy from a couple of years ago but heard there were too many bugs. I prefer to wait a while for titles to settle down before I invest in them.

The older versions you mention do seem closer to a CRPG, which I prefer. That said I think I only have on SSD and it sounds a bit complicated to have multiple instances on the same device. Still, I wager that would be a good way to add some additional game play value.

The Mods you mentioned sound great! I really appreciate the time you took to provide each complete with comments, link, technical requirements, compatibility, harmony with other mods. I keep an eye out to see how many are updated to 2.11 compatibility.

[Zebedee]

Originally posted by thelebk:

@Zebedee Good points all, thanks for your comments. Rocker Boys and Corpos are fun to play in Cyberpunk PnP, but the street samurai (solos) were always favored. If we can make it work in PnP we can make it work in computer games with some thought. For instance, the Rocker boy contact base is huge and they always have some flunkie willing to do any non-suicidal activity their idol directs. This has amazing implications for legwork, distractions, gathering information etc. They are also charisma boys able to solve many problems without violence. "Gee Mr. Silverhand I'm not supposed to let you into the Biotechnica R&D department but... Would you sign this autograph for my son? He's a huge fan" The distraction of a mob could come in handy in a number of missions, and of course the Rocker Boy has the power of the press at his finger tips... And of course he *always* gets the babes. I think we could find the fun here. From a technical standpoint its important we recognize the lines between traditional computer game genres have become progressively blurred. Most games today are hybrids. When Sierra released Birthright in 1997 is was a new beast. Was it a CRPG? An Empire Building Game? A turn-based Wargame? YES. previously these were all separate genres. In Birthright the Gorgon's Alliance you got all three games in one. Working all of these genres added technical challenges to the product which ultimately led to too many bugs. (Development budgets were mush smaller back then as were the teams) Having three platform changes during the development period also added to the title's woes. With modern computers and budgets its not hard to make Hybrid games. Diablo for instance combines CRPG with Arcade. There are many factions in Cyberpunk 2077, and it would not be difficult to create a parallel game of conflict at the organization level similar to Steve Jackson's classic Illuminati. Arasaka v.s Militech v.s. Biotechnica v.s. 6th Street etc etc. As those factions battle it out at the operational level laying on top of the tactical FPS, the world would change as some factions gain and others lose. How many recruits and how much cash do you think a talented Rocker Boy could bring to one of these factions to tip the balance? You get the idea. Similar logic could be applied to the "Corpo" archetype to make it fun to play. Can you imagine the high level Corpo being able to just hit a button on his comlink and a Megacorp dropship lands and spews out commando allies almost anywhere on the map? He may not need to hack access codes, his Intel buddies could just hand him the codes. He would also have access to unique prototype equipment and cyberware that was not for sale at any ripperdoc... You get the idea.

/Concur that Phantom Liberty was a progressive improvement over the base game. I too am curious to see where it goes from here. Any sense of the next paid DLC and release?

Development is pretty much over on this game now - there may be some more odds and ends and tidying up patches but they've already started work on the sequel with a new studio they've opened in Boston, USA.

re. build archetypes. I think for dialogue there is clearly room for more, in both the number of times it can influence something and in how the player is aware that they've made a choice which changed something. But they know that and we see a shift trialled in Phantom Liberty. There are limits in time and budget though. eg It's expensive to make things which branch rather than converge back, much more so for a game like this with multiple actors for each and every line plus standard required for every character interaction.

I hope they push on further with build archetype ideas and marrying them to making them feel like they've had a pay-off for the player choosing them. Would think they'll continue to push down the Arkane route which will ultimately be about building levels to allow for distinct paths through them rather than some of the fun ideas which you can imagine into existence in a TT game. The reason being it allows for the story telling to more frequently converge but uses the different distinct routes to add information and/or shading to that common end point.

Anyways, have a good one. Hopefully something good to look forward to in a few years time.)

[thelebk]

Sounds good Zebedee!

[Silverbane7]

Originally posted by thelebk:

@Silverbane7 Awesome comments, much appreciated. You are correct that I only recently started playing Cyberpunk 2077. I had a gifted copy from a couple of years ago but heard there were too many bugs. I prefer to wait a while for titles to settle down before I invest in them.

The older versions you mention do seem closer to a CRPG, which I prefer. That said I think I only have on SSD and it sounds a bit complicated to have multiple instances on the same device. Still, I wager that would be a good way to add some additional game play value.

The Mods you mentioned sound great! I really appreciate the time you took to provide each complete with comments, link, technical requirements, compatibility, harmony with other mods. I keep an eye out to see how many are updated to 2.11 compatibility.

when i first started doing this, i had only my main drive (c, onboard M2 drive) and an older style 1Tb SATA HDD.
its actually not that difficult.

you go into your steam/steamApps/common folder and just copy 'Cyberpunk2077' to..someplace else.
make a folder someplace and copy the whole folder into it.

(i use the D: drive for downloads, music, pictures ect. i knew when i built my pc that my second drive was for dowloads, that's why a normal mechanical drive was fine. and it works fine for 1.63 and below)

then, it was a backup. something i could copy back over if i messed up my mods.
(and yes, that does work lol)
then, 2.0 rolled around and i started looking into my options.

i knew i loved 1.61 (the version i was playing back then when 2.0 dropped)
after a bit, i decided to get a small ssd just for cyberpunk. because i knew i wanted at least 1.61 modded and 1.63 Legacy (vanilla).

so, when i got the drive, i copied my current 1.61 modded over. poped a shortcut to its .exe on my desktop.
its easy to rename the shortcut, it does not cause any problems (that i've had)
i just changed it from 'shortcut to cyberpunk2077.exe' to 'cyberpunk2077 1.61'. it's still a shortcut.
same with 1.63 Legacy. made sure they both ran the game before upgrading to 2.0

the only thing you need to be carefull with is the saves.
they are saved under <your user name>/saved games/CD Project Red/Cyberpunk2077
folders are ether 'manual save <number>' or 'autosave <number>' or 'quicksave <number>' and so on.

i already had a way to sort these. because i have 9 different V's (lol)
so, i found that if you copied the save folder, even if you changed the name, put it into another folder, but it was still inside the cyberpunk2077 save folder, it saw them.
so i just moved up one folder to /CD Project Red and made a named folder there for my backed up saves.
and it no longer saw them, so they were safe (from me deleting them, overwriting them ect)
you just have to make sure to keep your 1.63 saves and your 2.0+ saves seperate.
the game will show you what patch your saved games are in the 'load game' page.

i kept backups of my 'base save' for each 9 of my 1.61 V's (the start of the game with the Sandra Dorset rescue) so i can start over on my modded 1.61 any time i want.
i just have to copy that save into the save game folder and start my old version from the .exe file instead.
and remember to move the old save to your backup if you want to go back to 2.0+
generally, i tend to play in chunks for one character, so it's not too bad.

[Snack on my Sack]

Mr Yappington cooked a good review

[thelebk]

@Silverbane7 I am in awe of your Cyberpunk 2077 knowledge! Has the game really inspired that many play throughs for you? The game play seems a bit repetitive for me, but perhaps not with all your mods? Again, thanks for the guidance!

@SeyHydra Interesting, how much discussion of game specifics resulted from Mr. Yappington's review? I am wary of most reviews as they are written by professionals who are wedded to the industry which makes it difficult for them to be objective. They also tend to prefer games with gratuitous violence more than I do. Caveat Emptor.