Would a third person Cyberpunk game be better?

[Heineken]

Anyone else hoping the next Cyberpunk will be in 3rd person?

[id795078477]

Originally posted by Northwold:

Originally posted by id795078477:

Could you please elaborate how is it possible that in this comparison:

1. Game has only 1st person mode
2. Game has both 1st person mode and 3rd person mode

the "1" can ever win? The "2" is everything that "1" offers and additional stuff on top of it with no downsides. If someone wants to play in 1st person - they still can, nothing changes for them. Why do they have to care if "3rd person makes it worse" - it's not their choice, someone else will play in that mode.

Why are there no downsides? If you design for first person, for example, your environment design can be (VERY) different from third. If you design for both you have to accommodate the option that needs the most space -- third, because the camera has to be further away and there must at all times be somewhere that allows an intelligible line of sight for the player. Compromising environment design for first.

In terms of "cut scenes" if you want the quality of cut scenes CDPR are famous for *every single cut scene* would either need to be designed twice to meet their existing standard or, again, you get a compromise where, eg, the environmental storytelling you can see in first you can't see in third, the freedom of movement you have in first has to be locked in third or whatever.

(Environmental storytelling is the cinematic and photographic concept of using the visual context to inform the story. At its most obvious, in Cyberpunk it's things like "secure your soul" appearing on the building in front of you when V makes his final choice. Less obvious is thing like things being place strategically in frame that give the viewer certain background information that isn't delivered by the dialogue. Eg the way Royce is part of the visual scene before he is a player in the scene.)

In game design terms, it really *isnt* a simple case of it can be an option and it'll be fine. Maybe if you want ♥♥♥♥♥ storytelling like Elder Scrolls games where Bethesda don't actually care because their primary goal is the player being able to do whatever they want to do and the story can be written on the back of a napkin. But CDPR are all about the storytelling and the presentation.

You just made a bunch of speculations. No, it doesn't have to affect any "designs". Like - Skyrim switches between modes at the mouse scroll. You don't have to play either mode, it just works. I fail to see what in the game world may be designed in such a way that it fails to work in one mode but work in another.

Shooting? Of, that's an easy one. Skyrim also hints to switching into 1st person mode if you're trying to shoot with a bow. Is it so difficult to grasp that it can be hybrid? Again, you want to play 1st person - go for it. Someone wants 3rd person? They do it. If they see it doesn't work, they switch to 1st person for the task and move along. Don't invent something that isn't there. Games have been made for both modes without any difficulty.

Heck, even CP2077 - there's a mod to show the "proof of concept". When I was using that mod - nothing in the game was broken or difficult to go with. Dialogues? Yeah, hit that hotkey to swap into 1st person. It's just that the mod is not official and the animations are glitchy, the posture is very unnatural, etc - but that's cosmetics, as a concept it fully works.

You just made stuff up with a vague "game design" theory while other folks made it work in practice and showed it can be done. I don't know what else is there to say. The only reason CDPR doesn't do it - because it is a lot of work, mostly animations. Do you know how even 1st person animations are glitchy in this game? Try walking downstairs or backwards to see your legs doing anything but what humans do when walking. They just don't want to fix this mess. And so there's a "NO" from them and someone is reading too much into that "NO".

[Northwold]

Sorry but if you ask a question and you receive an informed answer that doesn't match up with your preferred taste, getting petulant about it / dismissing things because they don't suit your worldview as "speculation" isn't the way to reply (I didn't at any point mention shooting). And saying they can't animate is laughable. Look at the feature NPCs. They didn't animate the first person V model the way you'd expect in third person because it is *a first person model*. Skyrim, since you rate it so highly, uses two flying arms as its first person model.

You want the option. I told you why compromises are involved, since you claimed there were none. You still want the option. That's your opinion. That's fine.

[id795078477]

Originally posted by Northwold:

Sorry but if you ask a question and you receive an informed answer that doesn't match up with your preferred taste, getting petulant about it isn't the way to reply. You want the option. I told you why compromises are involved, since you claimed there were none. You still want the option. That's your opinion. That's fine.

Just as you. I've shown some facts to back up my claims. You wrote some theory (which is just your speculation and opinion). Sorry, this isn't how things work. If I can see stuff that you claim will cause some "downsides" working without any "downsides" - that plain disproves what you said. But hey, that's just silly me, looking at things and trusting my pair of eyes.

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion. I will still stay on mine: choice is good. Nobody proposed to change the way all the folks can play the game now. Adding more ways to play it will benefit those who want to experience those options.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Heineken:

Anyone else hoping the next Cyberpunk will be in 3rd person?

Third person is NEVER better.

[valium]

The way the more intimate scenes play out in first person mode is one of the best unique strengths this game has. 3rd person would take away a lot of the intimacy and nuance that is able to play out without hard switching to a cutscene that takes away your agency. The way the game is setup, YOU participating in these scenes is just nothing like anything I have ever played and it would be a shame to lose that because of needing to accommodate 3rd person.

[Titan Awaken]

Originally posted by eoozy:

Then I dont see the point of all the customization of your face, clothes, etc. If you cant even see the character apart from photo mode and inventory screen. An optional third person would be good for the next game, they could even make it so it switches to first person when you enter combat, cause third person games dont usually have good looking gunplay atleast.

Because this game is an (A)RPG. Character customization is one of the core tenets of RPGs.

The point of character customization is to… *drum roll* customize your chatacter!

Whether you can physicslly see it or not is, to be frank, completely irrelevant because it exists either way. This is a concept called object permanence. Why do people style their hair and put on makeup when they can’t even see their hair or face without a mirror?

[virtualk]

Not solely 3rd person but a 3rd person option. Something like a Bethesda game, choose your preferred play-style, for me I'd switch but mostly play in 3rd because there is so much character customization in this game it's almost as if there's no point other than photo mode and vehicle riding. They talk about immersiveness being the reason for not including it but then they shun vr at the same time, the most immersive way to play. Make a third person option if it's just a flat screen game, plenty of action/story heavy games have done it well (last of us series. spider-man, tomb raider) I think it's just not their strength as devs and it's easier to just say its for immersiveness.

[~ Fabulous ~]

a hybrid is always welcome

[Try again loser]

Is there any relevant game that the sequel changed the camera perspective?

First, i do not think there will ever be a cyberpunk 2077 sequel

Second, if the hypothetical sequel is third person, it's not cyberpunk sequel anymore, it's something else

[Heineken]

Originally posted by Blade of Miquella:

Is there any relevant game that the sequel changed the camera perspective?

First, i do not think there will ever be a cyberpunk 2077 sequel

Second, if the hypothetical sequel is third person, it's not cyberpunk sequel anymore, it's something else

Resident evil games, and as an added option rdr 1 to 2

[The GhØst]

No, I like 1st person

[eoozy]

Originally posted by Titan Awaken:

Originally posted by eoozy:

Then I dont see the point of all the customization of your face, clothes, etc. If you cant even see the character apart from photo mode and inventory screen. An optional third person would be good for the next game, they could even make it so it switches to first person when you enter combat, cause third person games dont usually have good looking gunplay atleast.

Because this game is an (A)RPG. Character customization is one of the core tenets of RPGs.

The point of character customization is to… *drum roll* customize your chatacter!

Whether you can physicslly see it or not is, to be frank, completely irrelevant because it exists either way. This is a concept called object permanence. Why do people style their hair and put on makeup when they can’t even see their hair or face without a mirror?

This argument would be good if there was actual reflections in glass panels etc like they do irl. And in real life I also have so many other ways to see what I'm wearing, how my hair looks, how my clothes are. In Cyberpunk you see your hands, legs and thats literally it. And only through mirrors in bathrooms you can see your own face. Lets not compare real life to the game if you arent even willing to do it all the way.

Like I said, even walking around in third person would be enough, if modders can implement that then so could the devs for the next game, idk why it bothers you so much that ppl want an optional TP.

It doesnt even need to be TP in cutscenes or combat, just free roam would be enough, more options are not bad.

And its not like Cyberpunk is trying to be a real life simulation, you already have third person in vehicles so I dont see why it couldnt be done for walking/running around.

[Titan Awaken]

Originally posted by eoozy:

This argument would be good if there was actual reflections in glass panels etc like they do irl. And in real life I also have so many other ways to see what I'm wearing, how my hair looks, how my clothes are. In Cyberpunk you see your hands, legs and thats literally it. And only through mirrors in bathrooms you can see your own face. Lets not compare real life to the game if you arent even willing to do it all the way.

Like I said, even walking around in third person would be enough, if modders can implement that then so could the devs for the next game, idk why it bothers you so much that ppl want an optional TP.

It doesnt even need to be TP in cutscenes or combat, just free roam would be enough, more options are not bad.

And its not like Cyberpunk is trying to be a real life simulation, you already have third person in vehicles so I dont see why it couldnt be done for walking/running around.

It was never a matter of whether or not it "could or "couldn't" be done.

First Person. Is. A. 100%. Deliberate. Design. Decision.

Again for the umpteenth time, I cannot physically make this point any more clearer or easier to understand. I can explain this to you but I can't understand this for you.

To be frank, I don't particularly care that you (or anyone for that matter) wants a third person view. Honestly, I strongly prefer my RPGs to be in third person view as well (this one included). In fact, I much prefer how the cutscenes work in The Witcher series compared to this game but here's exactly where we differ:

Even though I'd much rather a "Witcher-style" camera for this game, I can still understand and most importantly, acknowledge the developer's vision for this game even if it doesn't personally align with mine.

The devs had a vision for the choice of camera and they adhered to that vision. You're not expected to agree, much less like/appreciate, their vision but the very least you can do is acknowledge it. First person is deliberate and they didn't WANT a third person mode.

The sooner you can acknowledge this, the better.

[-=PR=-moon knight]

Originally posted by id795078477:

You just made a bunch of speculations. No, it doesn't have to affect any "designs". Like - Skyrim switches between modes at the mouse scroll.

I stop you right here, Skyrim 3rd person (and Bethesda 3rd person implementation in general) suck. They are a low quality camera switch that completely ruins the presentation of the game because the gameplay is still design (badly) for the first person perspective.

3rd person option like that you would have V floating while walking and running with awful animations, a stealth where the camera breaks you also sneak in very restricted tunnels (which is something bethesda games don't have) and an unplayable melee system.

[eoozy]

Originally posted by Titan Awaken:

Originally posted by eoozy:

This argument would be good if there was actual reflections in glass panels etc like they do irl. And in real life I also have so many other ways to see what I'm wearing, how my hair looks, how my clothes are. In Cyberpunk you see your hands, legs and thats literally it. And only through mirrors in bathrooms you can see your own face. Lets not compare real life to the game if you arent even willing to do it all the way.

Like I said, even walking around in third person would be enough, if modders can implement that then so could the devs for the next game, idk why it bothers you so much that ppl want an optional TP.

It doesnt even need to be TP in cutscenes or combat, just free roam would be enough, more options are not bad.

And its not like Cyberpunk is trying to be a real life simulation, you already have third person in vehicles so I dont see why it couldnt be done for walking/running around.

It was never a matter of whether or not it "could or "couldn't" be done.

First Person. Is. A. 100%. Deliberate. Design. Decision.

Again for the umpteenth time, I cannot physically make this point any more clearer or easier to understand. I can explain this to you but I can't understand this for you.

To be frank, I don't particularly care that you (or anyone for that matter) wants a third person view. Honestly, I strongly prefer my RPGs to be in third person view as well (this one included). In fact, I much prefer how the cutscenes work in The Witcher series compared to this game but here's exactly where we differ:

Even though I'd much rather a "Witcher-style" camera for this game, I can still understand and most importantly, acknowledge the developer's vision for this game even if it doesn't personally align with mine.

The devs had a vision for the choice of camera and they adhered to that vision. You're not expected to agree, much less like/appreciate, their vision but the very least you can do is acknowledge it. First person is deliberate and they didn't WANT a third person mode.

The sooner you can acknowledge this, the better.

Sure I can see that, doesnt stop me from wishing they add third person mode for certain things for the next game.