David vs V, who would win?

[Chenni]

Peak David on the anime, vs "peak" V (i.e. max level, epic quick hacks, cyberware, weapon).

Do you think V has a chance against David?

On the anime, David's Sandi seems to be even faster than the one we have in game. On the other hand, emp grenade or a netrunner V could easily make short work of something like David.

[Shadow]

Andrew boa boa weyland

[Nope]

Originally posted by Markus Reese:

Originally posted by tsunshine.chris:

Did this choom just say Mike Pondsmith was wrong about his own material?

I said they said. I presented that the relic did more than just hold Silverhand's engram. They said the relic did nothing for V because V can do everything before getting it.

Mike says that wouldnt be the case in said point about cyberpsychosis. So what I theorised was in line with what Pondsmith said.

If going with the tabletop depiction, only Adam Smasher fit the bill, it mainly just act as a gameplay limiter
While CP2077 depict it differently which is just whoever the hell start killing people out of nowhere regardless of reasons are reported as cyberpsychosis and at least half of those bosses problems weren’t even related to cyberware if you read their stories,
So no, V having shielded from cyberpsychosis because of the Relic is quite a stretch

While Judy little program can make regular people into combatant, they still need training and practices, on Corp scale it can be a fully working weapon but you forgot few thing
1. The Relic is a prototype
2. It first purpose was to “extend” Saburo life
3. V is their first success and the complete version only exist if V side with Hanako
They already struggling to make it work with the original psyche, do you think they have time to risk their work by adding extra variables?

There is theory crafting and then there is whatever the hell you’re doing

[Mr_Blank]

Depends entirely on what build V goes for. Even if V has the edgerunners perk and can put as much cyberware on as David, it’s been made clear that the relic is scrambling his brain, which could deter him from installing something like the cyberskeleton. David’s got a sandy, so a cool build wouldn’t exactly work: I don’t think knives and stealth are the best option for dealing with a speedy arm cannon man. V should be running a equally strong strength build or a good intelligence build, so either he can knock David down with his fists, or he can hack his cyberware. David’s already proved to be very resilient to reflexes and technical ability (he got out of the grasps of the crazy tyger claw running blades, a reflex build, in episode 3 very quickly, despite being very inexperienced, and he was able to take out the massive maelstrom guy that’s clearly on a major tech ability build to be running so much cyberware). It also entirely depends on where David and V are in their story. David and V have a very similar amount of time in which they go from total nobody to well renowned merc, but V had a lot more slip-ups and roadblocks that David did, with the relic and everything.

[Markus Reese]

Not sure if a body build would do it. David got ripped pretty early and was quite the brawler. Tech/Body for sure. The skill and duration would put a reflex for third trait? I would theorize that he has the dash perks by current game tree because of how maneuverable he is. Notably the episode where he is going between moving vehicles.

Intelligence V is definitely how to go. We see David does have vulnerability to hack (lucy covering for him on mission) and shows is more of an act before think without any netrunning attitude. IE how he fries the school system accidentally :-)

[Markus Reese]

Originally posted by Mr_Faorry:

You specifically said that you thought the relic was controlling V to make them more skilled like the doll chips Judy makes do.

None of this is anything to do with what that reddit comment was talking about, it doesn't line up with it because it's a whole different topic.

Not different topic. Topic for both were things the relic did. They are not mutually exclusive and can do both. The context of reference from Mike Pondsmith was how the relic would help keep V from going psycho.

My point was Relic perhaps did additional stuff as well.

So which is it. Relic does nothing for V at all as represented by game, or relic does something as presented by Mike Pondsmith meaning being able to max build in act 1 is not representative of the story canon?

[EJR]

The flaw with this debate is that since V is a playable character in 2077 and has protagonist powers, he is meant to be near unkillable if not unkillable in the general story of the game. David was naturally resilient to cyberware which managed to keep him sane, or delay his cyberpsychosis, until he reached past his breaking point (This sometimes happens in the lore, Adam Smasher is actually the same way too).

But V has pretty much nothing both from a gameplay and narrative perspective outside the Relic locked in his head and that is slowly killing him, and that in itself is portrayed poorly in the game. The only real good it does is provide the additional perks in PL, and honestly they wouldn't provide much.

Also doesn't help that V doesn't really have anything canon in the lore yet ie fighting style, cyberware, or even sex/gender, etc. But if we take the trailer where it shows V and Jackie getting from the heist as "canon," I'm just putting my money down on David; dude only has mantis blades, and as much as I love them they are pointless against something who can slow down time (And has more cybernetics if we are talking near finale David, not just general David). But if "canon" V goes netrunning then I agree with Markus Reese, David would lose.

Someone here mentioned that David was killed my Adam, and that Adam was killed by V so by that logic V should be stronger by David. This argument an important flaw: Adam Smasher was portrayed very poorly in this game in regards to how much he would be a threat, that is why people find his fight boring and why there is a mod out there that makes him into an actual boss. Seriously, if you read up what he has gone through and what he is capable of then you start to realize that CDPR did Smasher dirty in this game.

[⎝⧹Za Furan⧸⎠]

V win.
He/She can use Sandevistan infinite times a day without needing the meds.

[Yuri]

V would win in a "fair" fight. David was already going through Cyberpsychosis signs when he was fully chromed, the implants are great and all, but they need an organic body and, specially, a mind to sustain, I don't know, such a dissonance, a divergency between psyche and chrome, it's kind of a topic the game and the anime deals on, the impact of these changes not only on the body, but on the mind, V reacts more "normally" to its implemantation and could focus better, make better decisions in combat.

[Nope]

Originally posted by EJR:

Someone here mentioned that David was killed my Adam, and that Adam was killed by V so by that logic V should be stronger by David. This argument an important flaw: Adam Smasher was portrayed very poorly in this game in regards to how much he would be a threat, that is why people find his fight boring and why there is a mod out there that makes him into an actual boss. Seriously, if you read up what he has gone through and what he is capable of then you start to realize that CDPR did Smasher dirty in this game.

It was mentioned that V triumph over Adam Smasher is because the story say V won that fight, the gameplay side can be anything you want, be it the most braindead fight ever or “mod it till it break” almost impossible fight won’t change the canon outcome
Even if they make Edgerunner into it own game, unless they change the story, even if you won the in-game gameplay fight, a cutscene will still play that Adam smashed David

Gameplay and Canon often don’t mix together

[Caramel_Clown]

Originally posted by Draconifors:

Haven't seen the anime, have zero interest in ever seeing the anime (or any other anime).

Video game >>>>>>> anime, both in general and in regards to characters.

So, you don't know. What do you know about the characters then?

[J]

"Peak V" vs "Peak David"? Lots of discussions, but it's really, really simple.
V pulls Militech Canto and blackwall his ass into oblivion.

[vile]

Originally posted by Nope:

Originally posted by EJR:

Someone here mentioned that David was killed my Adam, and that Adam was killed by V so by that logic V should be stronger by David. This argument an important flaw: Adam Smasher was portrayed very poorly in this game in regards to how much he would be a threat, that is why people find his fight boring and why there is a mod out there that makes him into an actual boss. Seriously, if you read up what he has gone through and what he is capable of then you start to realize that CDPR did Smasher dirty in this game.

It was mentioned that V triumph over Adam Smasher is because the story say V won that fight, the gameplay side can be anything you want, be it the most braindead fight ever or “mod it till it break” almost impossible fight won’t change the canon outcome
Even if they make Edgerunner into it own game, unless they change the story, even if you won the in-game gameplay fight, a cutscene will still play that Adam smashed David

Gameplay and Canon often don’t mix together

People tend to forget that Mike Pondsmith chose CDPR to adapt his universe and has been working closely with them on every aspect of the game. He's the reason Blackhand isn't in the game, and he's the DJ of Morro Rock Radio.

Trying to argue whether or not the story of 2077 is canon is absolutely ridiculous. He helped write it.

[EJR]

Originally posted by Nope:

Originally posted by EJR:

Someone here mentioned that David was killed my Adam, and that Adam was killed by V so by that logic V should be stronger by David. This argument an important flaw: Adam Smasher was portrayed very poorly in this game in regards to how much he would be a threat, that is why people find his fight boring and why there is a mod out there that makes him into an actual boss. Seriously, if you read up what he has gone through and what he is capable of then you start to realize that CDPR did Smasher dirty in this game.

It was mentioned that V triumph over Adam Smasher is because the story say V won that fight, the gameplay side can be anything you want, be it the most braindead fight ever or “mod it till it break” almost impossible fight won’t change the canon outcome
Even if they make Edgerunner into it own game, unless they change the story, even if you won the in-game gameplay fight, a cutscene will still play that Adam smashed David

Gameplay and Canon often don’t mix together

If the canon says V beat Smasher then that's fine, he was an obstacle you have to get pass to save yourself. But whether the fight was boring or impossible you can still complain that such a fight was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if the devs failed to make it feel memorable. Doesn't even need to be a fight, just needs to be an encounter.

It's like the Sequel trilogy of Star Wars. Yes, we acknowledge (Often reluctantly) that it's canon, but we still complain about it being written poorly.

[Markus Reese]

Originally posted by J:

"Peak V" vs "Peak David"? Lots of discussions, but it's really, really simple.
V pulls Militech Canto and blackwall his ass into oblivion.

I was going to comment about items being universal, but that is a V specific iconic. Though then we need to consider then if we are going pre or post full body conversion David. I had been looking at pre because the conversion essentially kills him. But then he would have the gravity control that would pop V like a bug?

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Markus Reese:

Originally posted by J:

"Peak V" vs "Peak David"? Lots of discussions, but it's really, really simple.
V pulls Militech Canto and blackwall his ass into oblivion.

I was going to comment about items being universal, but that is a V specific iconic. Though then we need to consider then if we are going pre or post full body conversion David. I had been looking at pre because the conversion essentially kills him. But then he would have the gravity control that would pop V like a bug?

Not really. It didn't kill Faraday, whom we can assume had gotten some upgrades with his wealth to make himself more resilient.

V would be a lot tougher, and a V with a Sandivestan build wouldn't be in a single spot long enough for for the anti-grav field to affect him/her because it's a concentrated area that is affected.