Cyberware Upgrades Not RNG Fiesta

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Im not 100% that i fully understand how it works yet. But here's what i got so far. So as of 2.0 you get tiers of items going like this: T1 .. T1+ .. T2 .. T2+ .. etc etc .. T5 .. T5+ .. T5++ Which basically means there are 11 grades of item power creep, and its similar to both cyberware and weapons, but i only want to talk about cyberware here.

Every even grade of item adds another stat modifier to a cyberware piece. And we also have a Driver Update perk in tech tree that unlocks +1 stat modifier. Which means, for example both T1 and T1+ may have up to 2 stat modifiers, whereas T5 and higher may have up to 6 stat modifiers.

Now at first glance it doesnt look all that bad, right? There is even a perk Chipware Connoisseur, which reads "when upgrading cyberware, you can choose from two stat modifier options. Third option is avaliable at grade 3 and higher". So normally you would think ok, maybe i start with basic white T1 piece of cyberware and literally upgrade it to max while choosing the stats that i want to add along the way. Sort of "tailor it" to my build as i go. That would be a cool system right?

But in reality it obviously doesnt work like that. The first problem you encounter is that as you progress through the game you get better assortment of cyberware to choose from meaning most cyberware is locked behind XP level. And as you hit certain breakponts in XP you no longer able to buy gear of lower grades. So forget about "tailoring" anything. But why is it bad? Well see the modifiers that you get on certain pieces are fixed. So for example if you are doing a netrunner build you might want to stack stats like: quickhack damage, ram recovery on kill, dot damage, maybe lower enemy detection and such. But the items that are sold at the shops all have the same fixed stat pool and far from having every single stat that you want.

So the last hope is Chipware Connoisseur perk, can it help replace the undesired stats on items in favour of those that you want? Ofc not. I would be surprised if it did, cause that would actually be a good mechanic. The way i understand it, for every piece of cyberware there are 3 possible modifier lists. Lets call them A B C. List A is what you get from the shops. Lists B and C is what you can choose from when upgrading, thanks to the perk. So in the end, there are 3 different versions of each cyberware piece, some of which might suit your build better than others. But that is the only control you get over it.

Overall the system is obviously pretty trashy. I wish we could pick and choose modifiers that we want. I wish we could maybe even stack the modifiers instead of having 6 different ones having just quickhack damage x6. Heck i would even prefer fishing for "perfect rolls" with full RNG stat fiesta, like in diablo games for example. But instead all we get is a choice between poop#1, poop#2 and poop#3, that is IF you have the perk. Without the perk you will always be getting poop#1.

Have fun.

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Originally posted by Pyromancer Oswald:

Why would you think that?

Why would i think what? lol XD

Bro i tested it. You can buy 2 exact same items and try to upgrade them both. You get the same exact upgrade "choices". And if you think you are clever you may choose option B for one item and option C for the other. So now they have slightly different stats. But then you upgrade them once more, maybe expecting even more diviation in options. Nop XD same options for both again.

[Crimsomrider]

Yeah I don't like it either that as a Netrunner I am forced to choose "explosion damage/headshot multiplier" on some pieces, when all I really want is "Quickhack damage/RAM recovery and reduced visibility".

So I am forced to go fully into RAM Recovery even if the other two stats are useless for me as a Netrunner.

[aSleepingPanda]

So I've noticed over my new playthrough that you will be presented with different random modifiers. I'm not sure how to force the game to reroll them though. They don't change on vendor restock, reloading of the save, or on level up. I'm not sure what else to test because those seem like the most obvious triggers.

I'm willing to exploit the way the system is set up atm to get good stats for my build once I figure out how the system works, but ... if there was a deterministic way to choose the stats you got that would be so much better. I also found that in the early game I was very short on crafting materials so I would opt to replace my cyberware instead of upgrading. That also felt bad imo and could be adjusted.

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Originally posted by aSleepingPanda:

I'm not sure how to force the game to reroll them though.

Yea well thats the whole point YOU CANT. As i said, the modifiers are all fixed in place, and they wont change no matter what you do, skip time / reload / different vendor etc. Even worse, the upgrade options at any given grade are all the same. Did you even read throught the post? I know its huge so i dont really blame you.

The design of the system is super lazy. Because if you let people choose modifiers at will or god forbid even stack them, then you would have to account for all outcomes. You would need to make sure that it would not break the game. Instead by providing just an illusion of choice you save yourself all the headache.

[aSleepingPanda]

The system is uncheesable. I'll explain how I understand it.

Your character will at all times have 3 sets to choose when upgrading a piece of cyberware. 1 default set specific for each individual piece and 2 bonus sets with "random" rolls.

These 3 sets apply to every piece of gear you have. This means that no matter what gear you upgrade the bonus sets will be exactly the same.

Once you upgrade a piece of gear regardless of what set is used you will lose access to your 2 bonus sets and be given 2 new sets.

The "random" rolls on your 2 bonus set of modifiers are actually predetermined. Lets say you're level 40 and haven't upgraded a single piece of cyberware in your playthrough. Now let's say you upgrade 4 cyberware and record the 8 bonus sets you see. If you then loaded a save of that character at level 20, and upgraded 4 cyberware, you would see the exact 8 bonus sets you previously recorded.

As far as I can tell the 2 bonus sets are predetermined. If you're aware of seeds then that is probably what is happening here. At some point in time the game generates a seed for your character and maps out every single bonus set that character could ever see and the order that they will see them in.

The cheapest way to progress through your seed is to buy eye implants for $13,569, spend 10 crafting material upgrading them, and then selling them for $5,187. But this sounds like a massive waste of time.

[TechCluster1980]

They made so much mess with cyberware and upgrades, I don't like it, why spoil something that was good, now there are so many unnecessary options, it reminds me more and more of The division 2, so many upgrade options that are as useful as an umbrella in hell...

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Originally posted by aSleepingPanda:

I'll explain how I understand it.

You mean to say that if i want to upgrade something at any given time i will be getting the same options over and over. But if i want to change the options i need to upgrade something else first so the seed shifts one state forward and now if i go back to upgrade the first item that i wanted i will get maybe different options. This is just not what i see from my testing. No matter what you do the upgrade options at any given grade are exactly the same.

The way i see it the items are coded like this - [item id]+[item grade]+[item state] where [item state can be 1, 2 or 3. Depending on your upgrade choice. And it defines the list of modifiers that you get, which is always predetermined and hard coded into the game. I dont see any randomness at all.

So item upgrades could go like this:

[subdermal armor][T2+][2] -> [subdermal armor][T3][3] -> [subdermal armor][T3+][2]

or

[subdermal armor][T2+][1] -> [subdermal armor][T3][1] -> [subdermal armor][T3+][2]

But in the end both items will have the same exact set of modifiers because they are essentially the same item, they just had a different upgrade history.

Edit: i honestly hope that im wrong on this, i would be happy to be proven wrong.

[aSleepingPanda]

Originally posted by ♡:

Your posts are contradictory.

When I said uncheesable I meant finding a way to perform a quick and repeatable action to generate 2 new sets.

I will be buying/upgrading eye implants every once in while so I can see more of my seeded list, and if I see a good roll I'll replace one of my permanent pieces of cyberwear. But, I'm not going to pursue good rolls the way I initially intended to.

[dot]

I miss where`s the random generation in all this? xD The different set of modifiers are preset as you said, the perk only allows you to pick them as alternatives if they fit better to your playstyle. xD

- There`s 2 alternatives until T2, 3 alternatives from there, and since the vendor always sell you base tier and not the plus, you can always upgrade them and select what preset you prefer for that cyberware.

So many lines and paragraphs to say that xD

[dot]

Originally posted by ♡:

Tbh, I think it would be better if the choosing of these stat groups was just removed entirely; & everyone just got fixed & consistent item stats across every game instance no matter what. Abusing the system like I outlined isn't fun.... (or kind of is sometimes lol - Messing with unintended mechanics can be funny). But stuff like this is just going to confuse the hell out of casuals that try to watch Cyberpunk build videos now. It's now gone from "Just find this item, this weapon, etc", to "Same as before, but now abuse all these stats across every item piece until you get this", which will just frustrate some people trying to make the perfect god tier roll that someone else got. We've now gone from a hypothetical video that I could make less than 5mins long, to something with about 20mins long worth of explanation to see how it all comes together.

So let me understand what you are saying, are you saying that items modifiers sets are randomized? Because I`m getting the same sets to choose from across several upgrades on the same cyberware... or what? if for example we are talking about the basic kiroshis, if I buy a another basic kiroshis no that it will have 2 different alternative sets that the other basic kiroshis? Basic kiroshis only, not meaning differences between basic and doomsayer or sentry or whatever else, but the same cyberware.

[aSleepingPanda]

You don't have to buy an expensive piece of cyberware to progress through your seeded list. The 2 bonus sets apply to every piece of cyberware and once you upgrade you get 2 new sets that again apply to every piece of cyberware.

If I didn't like the 2 bonus sets I was given I would buy a Kiroshi Eye implant for 13k and upgrade. This progresses your seeded list. Repeat as necessary until you find a roll you like. You can buy 7 eye implants at a time which means you can see 14 different bonus sets.

[dot]

Oooh Oook, now I think I understand what you are saying. That`s a weird way to do it for me ngl xD

[Y'shtola]

Originally posted by aSleepingPanda:

The system is uncheesable. I'll explain how I understand it.

Your character will at all times have 3 sets to choose when upgrading a piece of cyberware. 1 default set specific for each individual piece and 2 bonus sets with "random" rolls.

These 3 sets apply to every piece of gear you have. This means that no matter what gear you upgrade the bonus sets will be exactly the same.

Once you upgrade a piece of gear regardless of what set is used you will lose access to your 2 bonus sets and be given 2 new sets.

The "random" rolls on your 2 bonus set of modifiers are actually predetermined. Lets say you're level 40 and haven't upgraded a single piece of cyberware in your playthrough. Now let's say you upgrade 4 cyberware and record the 8 bonus sets you see. If you then loaded a save of that character at level 20, and upgraded 4 cyberware, you would see the exact 8 bonus sets you previously recorded.

As far as I can tell the 2 bonus sets are predetermined. If you're aware of seeds then that is probably what is happening here. At some point in time the game generates a seed for your character and maps out every single bonus set that character could ever see and the order that they will see them in.

The cheapest way to progress through your seed is to buy eye implants for $13,569, spend 10 crafting material upgrading them, and then selling them for $5,187. But this sounds like a massive waste of time.

If this is the case, it's the exact system No Man's Sky used to have with it's RNG install bonuses. Which you were able to do the following:
1. Purchase like 10 S-tier upgrades for a ship/vehicle/gear.
2. Install them and record what values they have.
3. Install trash C-tier stuff until you reach the number value you want.

Example. If the 8th S-Tier installed had quality values, then you install 7 C-tier items, followed by the 8th S-Tier, to get those values.

The way you'd do that here would be:
1. Save the game.
2. Purchase cheap cyberware, upgrade, record the stats, for however many times. Let's say 5.
3. Then you can reload your save once you know -which- of those is the one you want.

Might take a bit more finesse, but that is what this sounds like.