I can't be the only one. (Perk system)

[Nik]

I can't be the only one who thinks the new perk system is absolutely dissapointing. The perks went from "this has an actual impact on your game" to "this has either no impact or you have to go out of your way to see the impact". I'm not saying that pre 2.0 all the perks were perfect and some of them certainly were completely useless but atleast taking a perk (atleast early - mid game, late game was more of "I guess I'll take this idk) made a difference and gave a satisfying feedback. Now I'm "forced" to take perks that do either nothing for me or unlock a "cool ability" that I'm never gonna use because I could not care less. I've been going through all the perks and I can't see myself taking more than maybe two abilities out of all the ones that have been added. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the perks are great and I can't way to unlock them (The ones that are more oldschool in terms of what they do to your character) but it feels like we traded an actual progression and impact on the game for cool animations and good for nothing point dumps.
(inb4 man children will comment "nooo you can't have an OP character :((((((". Crazy how this is a single player rpg-like game)

I don't mean this as a slander to the game at all, I've been loving it since literal day 1, the game is absolutely in my top 10, if not top 5. The 2.0 update is amazing, runs better than ever, looks better than ever, and all the improvements (with their fair share of bugs, let's be honest.) are amazing. Sure, there's stuff I don't inherently like but I'm sure it's just a case of getting used to it. I do, however, think that the perk system change is such a dissapoiting turn for the game.

[H3X]

Originally posted by Blackheart:

Originally posted by MustardTiger:

This is why I'm going back to 1.63, my char uses shotguns. I do not want to melee. Literally all the good shotgun perks force melee. Bad.

Where did you find that? I'm looking at shotgun perk tree and there is literally nothing melee related except for quick melee, which is just a bash with a weapon, so you don't even have to switch weapons to trigger it and besides it's not like you need to use it, you could easily blast anyone without relying on that.

The shotgun capstone is tied to melee, and alternating kills. So you are more or less required to play a hybrid with blunt weapons to get anything much out of it

[MustardTiger]

Originally posted by Blackheart:

Originally posted by MustardTiger:

This is why I'm going back to 1.63, my char uses shotguns. I do not want to melee. Literally all the good shotgun perks force melee. Bad.

Where did you find that? I'm looking at shotgun perk tree and there is literally nothing melee related except for quick melee, which is just a bash with a weapon, so you don't even have to switch weapons to trigger it and besides it's not like you need to use it, you could easily blast anyone without relying on that.

The perks require low stamina and you lower your stamina by doing melee.

[H3X]

That in itself is the biggest concern I have with 2.0... You can't have a tech skill focused netrunner that likes using a shotty for example, without taking the Body perks and having to level it, then also play around the perk behaviour to render it half decent.

You have to take the technical skill weapons and elemental attributes because that's all you have unless you want to half suck at multiple classes. Perk points are still a thing.

There's also things like the "Like a Feather" perk which implies that without investment the weapon actually has a carry weight and movement reduction. Which is great for low tier builds, being low tier perk although should it really be a thing at all?

Take a looksee and tell me where the shotgun perks are not directly tied to face up melee combat? At which point arguably a melee weapon will be better since they at least have perks that aren't stacking buffs and ALL of the core shotgun perks are a stacking buff, mostly relating to low stamina, which you lose by melee, right?

[H3X]

But that was a netrunner that wanted to use the weapon right? Where's the build gone? Down the funnel. It's sad

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by H3X:

Originally posted by Blackheart:

Where did you find that? I'm looking at shotgun perk tree and there is literally nothing melee related except for quick melee, which is just a bash with a weapon, so you don't even have to switch weapons to trigger it and besides it's not like you need to use it, you could easily blast anyone without relying on that.

The shotgun capstone is tied to melee, and alternating kills. So you are more or less required to play a hybrid with blunt weapons to get anything much out of it

Only the last major perk has anything to do with melee, first two don't. And you can easily skip last one if you don't want it. I don't see a problem. And it's not blunt weapon, it's quick melee which goes well with shotty. Bad guy comes around the corner, you bash him in the face (and get 100% shotty damage boost for that) and then shoot him in the face. Simple as f***. Don't understand the problem. Many games have exactly same idea with shotties.
You guys act as if every shotgun related perk, you simply MUST get it and it also MUST completely and entirely fit your playstyle. That's kinda absurd. I mostly use pistols and prior to 2.0, I didn't get all pistol related perks because I didn't feel like I needed some. My playstyle wouldn't make use of those skills, but some other player might have had a different style and found those perks useful. Simple as that.
I'm still confused about your blunt weapons argument. What do they have to do with shotguns? I'm sorry If I'm missing something obvious, but I don't see any perks that work with the two, let alone any must have or ones that would "force" you to play in any way you claim.

[H3X]

Originally posted by Blackheart:

Only the last major perk has anything to do with melee, first two don't. And you can easily skip last one if you don't want it. I don't see a problem. And it's not blunt weapon, it's quick melee which goes well with shotty. Bad guy comes around the corner, you bash him in the face (and get 100% shotty damage boost for that) and then shoot him in the face. Simple as f***. Don't understand the problem. Many games have exactly same idea with shotties.
You guys act as if every shotgun related perk, you simply MUST get it and it also MUST completely and entirely fit your playstyle. That's kinda absurd. I mostly use pistols and prior to 2.0, I didn't get all pistol related perks because I didn't feel like I needed some. My playstyle wouldn't make use of those skills, but some other player might have had a different style and found those perks useful. Simple as that.
I'm still confused about your blunt weapons argument. What do they have to do with shotguns? I'm sorry If I'm missing something obvious, but I don't see any perks that work with the two, let alone any must have or ones that would "force" you to play in any way you claim.

Then you're not reading mate. All of the three shotgun skills are directly tied to Stamina. All or most of the side skills from that awful tree require stamina loss to function properly.

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by MustardTiger:

Originally posted by Blackheart:

Where did you find that? I'm looking at shotgun perk tree and there is literally nothing melee related except for quick melee, which is just a bash with a weapon, so you don't even have to switch weapons to trigger it and besides it's not like you need to use it, you could easily blast anyone without relying on that.

The perks require low stamina and you lower your stamina by doing melee.

There are total three perks I see that do that. Three out of 10. Simply put one point less into it if you don't need it?? You gonna tell me you absolutely must have those perks in order to play shotgun build? lol. Also, pretty sure you can lower stamina with dashing if you prefer over melee? Just an idea.
Again, you guys act as every perk must be taken in order to be able to play this build or enjoy it. Not every player who plays with shotgun will play the same way. Maybe someone enjoy playing exactly with that - melee + shotgun and this half of a perk will benefit them - did you think about that? Or must every half of the perk fit your playstyle perfectly?
Edit: Corrected some info.

[MustardTiger]

Originally posted by Blackheart:

Originally posted by H3X:

The shotgun capstone is tied to melee, and alternating kills. So you are more or less required to play a hybrid with blunt weapons to get anything much out of it

Only the last major perk has anything to do with melee, first two don't. And you can easily skip last one if you don't want it. I don't see a problem. And it's not blunt weapon, it's quick melee which goes well with shotty. Bad guy comes around the corner, you bash him in the face (and get 100% shotty damage boost for that) and then shoot him in the face. Simple as f***. Don't understand the problem. Many games have exactly same idea with shotties.
You guys act as if every shotgun related perk, you simply MUST get it and it also MUST completely and entirely fit your playstyle. That's kinda absurd. I mostly use pistols and prior to 2.0, I didn't get all pistol related perks because I didn't feel like I needed some. My playstyle wouldn't make use of those skills, but some other player might have had a different style and found those perks useful. Simple as that.
I'm still confused about your blunt weapons argument. What do they have to do with shotguns? I'm sorry If I'm missing something obvious, but I don't see any perks that work with the two, let alone any must have or ones that would "force" you to play in any way you claim.

Do you see where it says "while at low stamina" on the shotgun perks?????? How do you get to low stamina???????

[VILE]

You guys should look at the passive perks you gain from leveling skills to level 60, I need a compiled list of those skills. Because those were completely revamped.

[H3X]

Originally posted by VILE:

You guys should look at the passive perks you gain from leveling skills to level 60, I need a compiled list of those skills. Because those were completely revamped.

Most of them suck.

[MustardTiger]

Originally posted by MacGyver:

every body that is complaining are the people that didnt start a new game. they are mad their build is gone. cry more.

tbh that is partly true. I was midway through my first playthrough then bam. I think I won't mind so much when starting a new game. But still, shotgun shouldn't be COMPLETELY reliant on melee... I will cry more

[H3X]

Originally posted by MustardTiger:

Originally posted by MacGyver:

every body that is complaining are the people that didnt start a new game. they are mad their build is gone. cry more.

tbh that is partly true. I was midway through my first playthrough then bam. I think I won't mind so much when starting a new game. But still, shotgun shouldn't be COMPLETELY reliant on melee... I will cry more

They recommended folks start a new one, which for a large alteration to mechanics makes complete sense. Unfortunately not all of the large changes to mechanics make sense, themselves

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by MustardTiger:

Originally posted by Blackheart:

Only the last major perk has anything to do with melee, first two don't. And you can easily skip last one if you don't want it. I don't see a problem. And it's not blunt weapon, it's quick melee which goes well with shotty. Bad guy comes around the corner, you bash him in the face (and get 100% shotty damage boost for that) and then shoot him in the face. Simple as f***. Don't understand the problem. Many games have exactly same idea with shotties.
You guys act as if every shotgun related perk, you simply MUST get it and it also MUST completely and entirely fit your playstyle. That's kinda absurd. I mostly use pistols and prior to 2.0, I didn't get all pistol related perks because I didn't feel like I needed some. My playstyle wouldn't make use of those skills, but some other player might have had a different style and found those perks useful. Simple as that.
I'm still confused about your blunt weapons argument. What do they have to do with shotguns? I'm sorry If I'm missing something obvious, but I don't see any perks that work with the two, let alone any must have or ones that would "force" you to play in any way you claim.

Do you see where it says "while at low stamina" on the shotgun perks?????? How do you get to low stamina???????

By sprinting and dashing, which you'll probably be doing if you want to get close to enemies with shotgun.

[Volkbrecht]

What I really liked about the old perk system is that it let me discover my build while playing. In my first playthrough I would literally go "Hm, I do this a lot, I should put some points into it." And since we had so many points, there was even room to reconsider along the way without having to respecc completely. In later playthroughs, I was able to consciously select a main ability ('this time, I'll be a sneaky ninja, or a big buff baddy'), then let myself be surprised what would work well with that.

The new talent trees take that away, they railroad the player pretty tightly into one premeditated talent tree for quite a long time, and tie abilities together that previously wouldn't necessarily have to be connected. To me a clear downgrade, that cooled off my desire to play through another time. Will just slaughter my way through Dogtown and then shelve it for good.

[H3X]

Originally posted by Blackheart:

Originally posted by MustardTiger:

Do you see where it says "while at low stamina" on the shotgun perks?????? How do you get to low stamina???????

By sprinting and dashing, which you'll probably be doing if you want to get close to enemies with shotgun.

Tech Shotguns and many of the Smart shotguns would like to have a word with that strategy...