Why is Ray Reconstruction locked behind Path Tracing

[Purzifal]

Ray Reconstruction should be able to run without Path Tracing but i know the tech is best used with it. or is this just another dumb nVidea thing locking every new feature behind the latest teck to force people to upgrade

Here is the thing, This basically makes no sense at all especially for those on older hardware. personally i have a 2080Ti and with just the original Ray Tracing on medium i struggle to maintain 40 FPS with DLSS on quality.

Ray Reconstruction would have greatly improved the performance and would be able to increase the performance and could have been able to possibly increase the ray tracing quality.

Performance numbers with 2080Ti, 1440p

• Path Tracing, No DLSS = 2 FPS
  
• Path Tracing, DLSS Performance = 9 FPS
  
• Path Tracing, DLSS Performance + RR = 22 FPS
  
• Ray Tracing Medium + DLSS Quality = 40 FPS avg

if the perfomance scales perfectly Ray Tracing Medium + DLSS Quality + RR = assumed 98 FPS avg but this can only go on assumptions

CDPR this was your time to showcase what DLSS 3.5 could do for the lower end hardware but you just failed.

[TwisTeD SenSe]

Cause nvidia is a money hungry corpo and wants you to buy a 40 series and soon a 50 series graphics card.
20 and 30 series only hope is if amd makes their frame gen tech work on them (if it ever releases and actually works reasonably).

[Maviba]

Because of Path tracing being a technical requirement for ray reconstruction to work.

[MysticalPotato]

Originally posted by Purzifal:

Ray Reconstruction should be able to run without Path Tracing but i know the tech is best used with it. or is this just another dumb nVidea thing locking every new feature behind the latest teck to force people to upgrade

Here is the thing, This basically makes no sense at all especially for those on older hardware. personally i have a 2080Ti and with just the original Ray Tracing on medium i struggle to maintain 40 FPS with DLSS on quality.

Ray Reconstruction would have greatly improved the performance and would be able to increase the performance and could have been able to possibly increase the ray tracing quality.

Performance numbers with 2080Ti
Path Tracing, No DLSS = 2 FPS
Path Tracing, DLSS Performance = 9 FPS
Path Tracing, DLSS Performance + RR = 22 FPS
Ray Tracing Medium + DLSS Quality = 40 FPS avg

if the perfomance scales perfectly Ray Tracing Medium + DLSS Quality + RR = assumed 98 FPS avg but this can only go on assumptions

CDPR this was your time to showcase what DLSS 3.5 could do for the lower end hardware but you just failed.

Agree. Nvidia stated ALL RTX CARDS can use Ray reconstruction, yet we cannot enable it without path tracing, which itself requires a 4x series card.

[MysticalPotato]

Originally posted by Maviba:

Because of Path tracing being a technical requirement for ray reconstruction to work.

Wrong. Go and look at Nvidia's own article. Or are you saying they don't understand how their own technology works?

[Scotty D C]

Originally posted by Maviba:

Because of Path tracing being a technical requirement for ray reconstruction to work.

that is not at all true even nvidia has said the opposite

[pjedilord]

Ray Reconstruction is def not special,people think is?

[Raytraced]

Where the hell do people get this notion that RR is supposed to increase performance? Nvidia clearly stated that any performance increase is a side effect and mostly depends on the complexity of the original denoiser it replaces. Regarding current Path Tracing limitation, CDPR mentioned that they had to carefully tweak RR to work acceptably in most situations and considering that Path Tracing is a single global lighting model, it makes sense for them to implement RR for it first assuming strict release deadlines as apposed to implementing it for each individual RT type like GI/Shadows/Reflections (for which it is not uncommon to use different denoisers, potentialy tripling the work required for transition to RR).

[Dephase]

Ah, so that's why it's greyed out for me. I have maxed out ray tracing settings + DLSS quality + Frame Gen but path tracing off (maybe it's just me but I haven't noticed that big difference between PT and normal RT so I never used that after the 1st time).

[MysticalPotato]

Originally posted by Scotty D C:

Originally posted by Maviba:

Because of Path tracing being a technical requirement for ray reconstruction to work.

that is not at all true even nvidia has said the opposite

Wrong

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-2077-2-0-nvidia-ray-reconstruction/

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/22/23841148/nvidia-dlss-3-5-ray-reconstruction-ray-tracing-quality

"Nvidia is introducing DLSS 3.5 this fall with a new AI-powered Ray Reconstruction technique that’s designed to improve the quality of ray tracing. Unlike DLSS 3’s Frame Generation, which was limited to just RTX 40-series GPUs, DLSS 3.5 will boost ray tracing across all RTX-series GPUs going back to the RTX 20 series"

This is from NVIDIA. I'll believe them over you anyday.

What does it say when you hover over Path tracing hmmm? Go and look. I'll wait.

Stop spreading misinformation

[☃︎❄️IceColdCubes❄☃]

Originally posted by TwisTeD SenSe:

Cause nvidia is a money hungry corpo and wants you to buy a 40 series and soon a 50 series graphics card.
20 and 30 series only hope is if amd makes their frame gen tech work on them (if it ever releases and actually works reasonably).

Yup you're correct they're money hungry, greedy, its a shame, but as long as people rush to buy them, while they meet target for sales, this will continue, its up to the consumer to put a halt to these practices.

[Purzifal]

Originally posted by MysticalPotato:

Originally posted by Scotty D C:

that is not at all true even nvidia has said the opposite

Wrong

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-2077-2-0-nvidia-ray-reconstruction/

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/22/23841148/nvidia-dlss-3-5-ray-reconstruction-ray-tracing-quality

"Nvidia is introducing DLSS 3.5 this fall with a new AI-powered Ray Reconstruction technique that’s designed to improve the quality of ray tracing. Unlike DLSS 3’s Frame Generation, which was limited to just RTX 40-series GPUs, DLSS 3.5 will boost ray tracing across all RTX-series GPUs going back to the RTX 20 series"

This is from NVIDIA. I'll believe them over you anyday.

What does it say when you hover over Path tracing hmmm? Go and look. I'll wait.

Stop spreading misinformation

i dont know who your saying is wrong but i am guessing your agreeing that RR needs path trracing. problem is the quote you provided did not say anything about path tracing only ray tracing.

Path Tracing is a version of Ray Tracing just more GPU intense, its also an experimental form of Ray Tracing. Ray Reconstruction was created to work on all forms of ray tracing, that's why nVidea states that RR is available for all cards. we know that the 20xx series has no chance on using path tracing, soem 30zz may have some luck runnign PT + RR with playable fps.

i have tested on the 2080Ti and get barley playable results at 1080p, it only gets playable at 720p and i'd rather play without RT than game on a 1440p monitor at 720p.

on a 2080Ti with DLSS Performance, PT On, RR On :-

• 1440p = 20fps avg
  
• 1080p = 33fps avg
  
• 720p = 45fps avg

[MysticalPotato]

Originally posted by Purzifal:

Originally posted by MysticalPotato:

Wrong

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-2077-2-0-nvidia-ray-reconstruction/

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/22/23841148/nvidia-dlss-3-5-ray-reconstruction-ray-tracing-quality

"Nvidia is introducing DLSS 3.5 this fall with a new AI-powered Ray Reconstruction technique that’s designed to improve the quality of ray tracing. Unlike DLSS 3’s Frame Generation, which was limited to just RTX 40-series GPUs, DLSS 3.5 will boost ray tracing across all RTX-series GPUs going back to the RTX 20 series"

This is from NVIDIA. I'll believe them over you anyday.

What does it say when you hover over Path tracing hmmm? Go and look. I'll wait.

Stop spreading misinformation

i dont know who your saying is wrong but i am guessing your agreeing that RR needs path trracing. problem is the quote you provided did not say anything about path tracing only ray tracing.

Path Tracing is a version of Ray Tracing just more GPU intense, its also an experimental form of Ray Tracing. Ray Reconstruction was created to work on all forms of ray tracing, that's why nVidea states that RR is available for all cards. we know that the 20xx series has no chance on using path tracing, soem 30zz may have some luck runnign PT + RR with playable fps.

i have tested on the 2080Ti and get barley playable results at 1080p, it only gets playable at 720p and i'd rather play without RT than game on a 1440p monitor at 720p.

on a 2080Ti with DLSS Performance, PT On, RR On :-

• 1440p = 20fps avg
  
• 1080p = 33fps avg
  
• 720p = 45fps avg

No, Nvidia said RR does not need path tracing but is available for all cards. Path tracing is a 40series feature.

RR is a form of DLSS type AA solution specifically for Ray Tracing and has nothing to do with path tracing.

[Sherigan]

Ok, for anyone interested - i think i found workaround for this. It seems a bit glitchy from time to time, but you can get it to work. What you need to do:

1. Launch the game and set everything in graphics settings, like you would normally run the game. This will overwrite contents of UserSettings.json in Cyberpunk 2077 folder in AppData/Local/CDProjekt Red.

2. Go to aforementioned file and edit it with whatever (Notepad or something).

3. Find option DLSS_D and change "value" to True.

4. Save and close the file, run the game and don't change anything in settings. Even though the option would still be greyed out, it would show "On" instead of "Off" this time.

I did some comparative screenshots and it seems to be working. Of course, i don't guarantee if it won't break anything in-game or in your GPU, but it is the only way that i am aware of to turn it on without Path Tracing (RTX 3070 here).

[BmanFx]

Originally posted by pjedilord:

Ray Reconstruction is def not special,people think is?

You are the special one.

[envirovore]

RayReconstruction is currently locked to Overdrive mode only and not supported with hybrid RT is due to it being easier to implement in path tracing, due to the differences in how the two systems work.

Path tracing is a more accurate one step system than the individually layered system approach of hybrid RT, where each effect simulates only one aspect of light and needs their own denoising solution per layer.

CdPR and NV are working on bringing RayReconstruction to hybrid RT with an update.