Spider and the Fly

[Soth]

Thanks CDPR for designing a mission where my entire build up til now is absolutely useless...no stealth options, no escape, no blind spots, just swarmed by enemies. Good job guys, good job ^^

[Zaum]

git gut

[🚛 Akehiko ⬛️💀🟧]

Can't relate, stealth pistol build still carried through

[Bogmore]

Which part?

[Blood of Kerensky]

Originally posted by Soth:

Thanks CDPR for designing a mission where my entire build up til now is absolutely useless...no stealth options, no escape, no blind spots, just swarmed by enemies. Good job guys, good job ^^

No, you are just bad, that's it. Did the mission twice already on very hard with two different builds. Did it as a netrunner and never got hit, thanks to contagion quickhack and being able to sit in cover. Did it as a samurai and just ran in and beheaded one after the other.

[Soth]

Originally posted by Bogmore:

Which part?

The arena fight where we're waiting for Songbird to power up the tank...

[charly4711]

It depends a lot on level (and more properly perks and gear).
I tried with my somewhat stealthy low body netrunner at lvl 31 and couldn't even get past those barghest coming at you while Songbird is activating the Chimera. I did kinda feel like you, because that part forces you to to take on enemies a lot more head-on than I would normally do with that build. You can only use optical camo to rush to the opposite corner of the room, so often.
At level 41 with appropriate perks and equipment, more attention to armour, it was still hard, but doable. Still on VH, that part and the final fight with the Chimera were among the hardest challenges I've seen in CP2077. I'm not opposed to having more challenging stuff in the game, but I don't very much appreciate arcade game style boss-fights that depend on you jumping in the right moment, etc. That's not why I'm playing a netrunner (who in my mind is the equivalent of the mage in fantasy RPGs, i. e. somebody who's about controlling the battlefield.) So, I'll be happy if those things don't proliferate (and QTEs likewise.)

The central issue with the DLC, however, is IMO that it needs to go into the middle of the main story. In TW3 Blood and Wine was tacked on _after_ the main story. So, you could easily extend the max level, bring in powerful new gear, add insane bosses without breaking the balance for the regular main story (unless the player decided to finish B&W before the main story but that's their choice, then.) In CP2077 where you could very well finish the main story at around lvl 25-30, adding more content in the middle of the game and raising the lvl max means you can outlevel the game not just by 20 levels but by 30. And so people, though the story kinda fits in the middle, take it as something for the end of the game, and then it suddenly feels out of place when you've just annihilated the Voodoo Boys and then can't even progress the main DLC mission because it's so much harder and you need to reload a save from before parcouring in that parking lot, saving the president, etc.
And then, once you're strong enough for that, if the remaining content for the end of the game had been left as it was, it would have been a cake-walk ... and enter level scaling.

All this is an effect of having the DLC in the middle of the game.

[[ENG] Swarożyc]

bruh, how many times do you want to pop heads in stealth mode?
If anything 1.63 stealth was too easy.
I've had 11 attribute points in stealth and if I wanted to, I could go trough whole game undetected. and I was using sandevistan, not cyberdeck which has way more refined stealth options.
That should be possible only on 20+ points plus cyberware.
Also I don't know if you remember, but Cyberpunk had alot of missions where fight was mandatory.
Still, update allows for even more powerfull combinations, and even updated police is not a big threat.

[Soth]

Originally posted by charly4711:

It depends a lot on level (and more properly perks and gear).
I tried with my somewhat stealthy low body netrunner at lvl 31 and couldn't even get past those barghest coming at you while Songbird is activating the Chimera. I did kinda feel like you, because that part forces you to to take on enemies a lot more head-on than I would normally do with that build. You can only use optical camo to rush to the opposite corner of the room, so often.
At level 41 with appropriate perks and equipment, more attention to armour, it was still hard, but doable. Still on VH, that part and the final fight with the Chimera were among the hardest challenges I've seen in CP2077. I'm not opposed to having more challenging stuff in the game, but I don't very much appreciate arcade game style boss-fights that depend on you jumping in the right moment, etc. That's not why I'm playing a netrunner (who in my mind is the equivalent of the mage in fantasy RPGs, i. e. somebody who's about controlling the battlefield.) So, I'll be happy if those things don't proliferate (and QTEs likewise.)

The central issue with the DLC, however, is IMO that it needs to go into the middle of the main story. In TW3 Blood and Wine was tacked on _after_ the main story. So, you could easily extend the max level, bring in powerful new gear, add insane bosses without breaking the balance for the regular main story (unless the player decided to finish B&W before the main story but that's their choice, then.) In CP2077 where you could very well finish the main story at around lvl 25-30, adding more content in the middle of the game and raising the lvl max means you can outlevel the game not just by 20 levels but by 30. And so people, though the story kinda fits in the middle, take it as something for the end of the game, and then it suddenly feels out of place when you've just annihilated the Voodoo Boys and then can't even progress the main DLC mission because it's so much harder and you need to reload a save from before parcouring in that parking lot, saving the president, etc.
And then, once you're strong enough for that, if the remaining content for the end of the game had been left as it was, it would have been a cake-walk ... and enter level scaling.

All this is an effect of having the DLC in the middle of the game.

Thanks for this well-thought out and detailed reply. I totally agree with you. I've since managed to complete this by basically popping Sandy, huffing meds and running in circles. Such great design, but at least my Very Hard run is still intact.

I actually enjoyed the following Chimera fight a lot more to be honest.

[=^・^=]

Totaly agree, this mission is bad design, game overall gives you different way to deal with problems and than... BAM, enjoy only tank build mission...

[Nachtflügel]

I'm afraid the entire Phantom Liberty main story is basically a shooter, netrunners are not welcome. I worry about Cyberpunk 2, they might abandon the idea of stealth and netrunning entirely.

I don't play the story in Dogtown any more, only do the gigs and side missions. Last time I played the story, a bug stopped me from finishing literally seconds before the end. I love Cyberpunk, but I hate Phantom Liberty. It's unbalanced and broken as hell.

[tbloyzz]

Yeah, this quest is the killer if you plan to have a pure "very hard" playthrough and start PL too early. Tried it with an early 20s build and barely took out a handful of these guys. Mission impossible. You basically have the choice between temporary reducing the difficulty or not going there before you are 40ish, which in essence is bad quest design.

[tbloyzz]

Originally posted by Nachtflügel:

I'm afraid the entire Phantom Liberty main story is basically a shooter, netrunners are not welcome. I worry about Cyberpunk 2, they might abandon the idea of stealth and netrunning entirely.

I don't play the story in Dogtown any more, only do the gigs and side missions. Last time I played the story, a bug stopped me from finishing literally seconds before the end. I love Cyberpunk, but I hate Phantom Liberty. It's unbalanced and broken as hell.

This I would disagree with. PL provides you with the most OP chrome for a Netrunner, which is the COX-2. The problem is, this thing does not only require a good amount of chrome space, it does also significantly reduce your RAM. This changes once you use the COX-2 and the Rippler and upgrade both to 5++. Latest when you have the Tier 4 Memory Wipe, you can play entire missions without using any weapon and without being noticed. Not saying all, but many.