Ray Tracing... Can't see a difference.

[Gelfan_Dothea]

I typically don't use Ray Tracing, because it's a gimmick that's not worth the FPS drop, but out of curiosity I decided to try the Overdrive setting to see if all the pretty lights made the game pop.

Nope. Couldn't even tell Ray Tracing was on, except for the fact my FPS dropped from 97 to 10. Anyone else? Where are these cinematic visuals Ray Tracing was supposed to bring?

[Thricycle]

Originally posted by LORd_RiVE:

Originally posted by Thricycle:

While i agree with your sentiment that this lighting technology is just better than what we currently use primarily, I do think in current games, it can look worse from an artistic point of view in some scenes. Some scenes in CP77, while technically are lit better, overall look worse than the prebaked lighting done by an artist. This doesnt happen in many scenes, but is definitely true in some scenes. It does definitely fix all of the major issues with baked lighting, and is just a much better method, just pointing out that artistic integrity and overall visual look and feel are just as important as pure technical fidelity.

It all boilds down to how long artists playing around with little light sources on maps to make the scenes look best (basically faking everything to make it look nice), but also at the same time make it totally unrealistic. It looks better for your eyes, but realistically, not all places and nooks and crannies must look amazing and well lit because thats just not how the world works. Places without light sources must be completely dark and not this light graying something because there is a baked world light in the entire map making everything visible no matter how dark is in the game (like even during night time, everything is just visible).

Artistic =/= Realistic.

Yes, I agree, this is exactly what i was saying in a previous post. I 1000% artistic =/= Realistic, thats my point, I also don't think realistic is always better than artistic, I prefer realistic, but i'm just pointing out how someone may find no RT to look better at times in these hybrid games. I think this will change when games are made with RT in mind as their primary lighting technique, but for now, with the hybrid games, I totally get how someone can find RT to not look much better than original IN SOME SCENES, most are just much better with RT

[Azrael]

Originally posted by Thricycle:

Yes, I agree, this is exactly what i was saying in a previous post. I 1000% artistic =/= Realistic, thats my point, I also don't think realistic is always better than artistic, I prefer realistic, but i'm just pointing out how someone may find no RT to look better at times in these hybrid games. I think this will change when games are made with RT in mind as their primary lighting technique, but for now, with the hybrid games, I totally get how someone can find RT to not look much better than original IN SOME SCENES, most are just much better with RT

I already feel sorry for lighting artists and game designers because now they'll have to work twice and in a team to make sure not just the cooked lights look good, but also they have to strategically put light sources on maps in mind that those light sources will actually shine light into the worlds, while casting realistic and dynamic shadows. They basically have to work twice until path tracing will be the norm and there will be no more cooked/faked lights in maps.

[Peh]

Originally posted by Gelfan_Dothea:

Originally posted by Peh:

Day and night difference if you know what to look out for:

Example:
No RT:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554059063785291807/1145303624440881222/photomode_27082023_122247.png

You can see the light bleeding though the texture. Looks very fake and illogical.

RT overdrive:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554059063785291807/1145303585597435954/photomode_27082023_122219.png

Now that part is in shadow. Also the buildings are a bit brighter in this scene. That's because the sun light that is hitting the dam is reflected on the buildings aswell.
There is no shadow map in RT. So all shadows are actually a side effect of rays being blocked by objects. This leads to realistic shadows for the whole scene.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554059063785291807/1145303350255046676/photomode_27082023_122508.png

Here you can see the sun light being blocked by a cloud.

Sorry, the No RT looks better to me. I get what RT does, and I'm sure it's more realistic, but it's just not something you can really notice while running around. The RT image looks darker and therefore hides a lot of the finer detail. I don't like that. But I also wouldn't notice it.

I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be intellectual dishonest about it.
You are saying the no RT looks better while it shows obvious visual issues and you also say that the RT one looks darker while in fact the no RT is the darker one, since there is no bounce lighting onto the buildings and environment. They stay in the dark.

If you don't notice the difference, that's fine, but you shouldn't claim that it is a gimmick, since Rasterisation and all the other feature are the actual gimmick trying to immitate reality. RT is the real deal. I can agree on the point, that scenery in games are first made with fake lighting in mind, and RT is an after thought which can ruin a scene artistically. Yet, for a game like that, Path tracing works.
Driving through the town, top buildings seeing reflected on the cars hood and windows, light rays playing with the environment and shadows being accurate. You will see these things if you keep playing with RT. But to each their own.

[Nooneyouknow]

Originally posted by Gelfan_Dothea:

Originally posted by Peh:

Day and night difference if you know what to look out for:

Example:
No RT:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554059063785291807/1145303624440881222/photomode_27082023_122247.png

You can see the light bleeding though the texture. Looks very fake and illogical.

RT overdrive:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554059063785291807/1145303585597435954/photomode_27082023_122219.png

Now that part is in shadow. Also the buildings are a bit brighter in this scene. That's because the sun light that is hitting the dam is reflected on the buildings aswell.
There is no shadow map in RT. So all shadows are actually a side effect of rays being blocked by objects. This leads to realistic shadows for the whole scene.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554059063785291807/1145303350255046676/photomode_27082023_122508.png

Here you can see the sun light being blocked by a cloud.

Sorry, the No RT looks better to me. I get what RT does, and I'm sure it's more realistic, but it's just not something you can really notice while running around. The RT image looks darker and therefore hides a lot of the finer detail. I don't like that. But I also wouldn't notice it.

Are you only looking at the bottom right corner? That's the only part of the RT image that's darker, and it's not enough to hide any detail there, what's hidden is simply from the perspective.

[Peh]

I just leave it here
https://youtu.be/s58tbglH4AU?si=4HpyEORsdfcQtME7

That's a really good comparision video.

[☻]

The game's original implementation of RTX had better reflections and more realistic light bounce and shadows but only outdoors. Later, they added real time shadows to more than just the outdoor sun and they could add more ray traced light sources in all areas. This allowed them to disable the pre baked lighting and fully light the entire game with ray traced effects which makes the game look darker in many instances but more realistic and moody.

Basically, RTX overdrive is a re-lighting of the game now that the power to handle it is available. Shadows adjust how sharp or soft they are based on distance and angle, realistically sharp or soft reflections appear based on the surface material doing the reflecting, proper tone mapping and realistic light bounce are added to everywhere in the game and can be effected in real time. How drastic of an effect this has on the image depends on the lighting of the scene but I think it's generally noticeable most of the time and it runs at 80FPS 4K or 120FPS 1440P on the high end cards that are meant for this sort of thing.

I can think back the last few years and most ultra settings vs high in games are not that different. Games like Read Dead Redemption 2 for example. RTX is pretty much ultra settings for light, shadow and reflections right now. RTX provides a larger graphical leap than most graphics options we have had in the past few years. Ray tracing will continue to be more effective as more power becomes available to use more ray traced functions in the future.

Leaps in graphical fidelity require much more power than they used to relatively. So it's true that the graphical enhancement vs the power/performance needed is getting worse but ray tracing is a path forward and better than what we had before which were pretty much minor tweaks that did almost nothing. The days of huge graphical enhancements that could be achieved in a single generation of graphic cards are gone and games are starting to reach photo realistic levels of quality, it makes sense that things will slow down in the graphics world so ray tracing is a source of excitement to graphics fans that put big money down on high tech cards. Effects meant for high tech cards now, will be playable on mid range cards a few years later so everyone has something to look forward to eventually.

[TypeNeko]

If your not seeing much of a difference then it's likely you don't have a monitor capable of it. Your better off just turning it off.

Most people don't consider the limitations of their own monitor. If you don't have a good enough monitor that can do HDR 400 true black or have good color accuracy your not going to get the most out of ray tracing. Ray tracing is going to make the biggest difference in shadows and reflections only if you can have true blacks. The higher contrast ratios and better color accuracy is also needed when your in a highly lit environment where the light can wash out details on most cheap monitors. It's not a difference that you can actually see in a presentation or picture unless you have the hardware on your end to display it side by side.

Yes that's right not only are you going to need $1200+ for the video card but your also going to need to break the bank and spend $1200+ on a good enough monitor too.

[☻]

^Yeah I agree. When you consider high end computer hardware you have to look at the limitations of each component in your system. Buying a high end graphic card won't fix a CPU bottleneck. In the same way, your monitor needs to be able to display modern color accuracy in order to show off the shaded pixels as they are being rendered. High refresh monitors with HDR capability and OLED pixel accuracy are a popular choice at the moment.

[RexEasily(xGunner)]

I saw some difference with RT on vs Off. It was noticeable but honestly it wasn't noticeable enough to make that much of a difference for the sacrificed fps to enable it.

[Azrael]

Originally posted by RexEasily(xGunner):

I saw some difference with RT on vs Off. It was noticeable but honestly it wasn't noticeable enough to make that much of a difference for the sacrificed fps to enable it.

We're talking about 2 different things here. RT in itself is not that demanding and not that huge visual change than Path tracing (overdrive) compared to anything really.
RT in itself does not even affect the fps that much, on the other hand

4090 on path tracing alone produce a whooping 18 fps
4090 on path tracing with DLSS enabled produce ~85 fps
4090 on path tracing with DLSS 3.5 produce ~110 fps

The default ray tracing makes some light sources,shadows and reflections better and more nice, but Pathtracing is what makes the game look amazing.

[kth]

Originally posted by Gelfan_Dothea:

It does look worse with RT on

holy mother of cope

[Setech]

Funnily enough, just the other day I had a friend tell me this then post 2 pictures and asked me to point out the differences:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2059887766556380412/B81477ABA0853C084B7418A2615CD716CAD6A487/

[Gelfan_Dothea]

I'm guessing the top one has the RT, because it shows less detail. Could be wrong though, since the bottom is casting reflections that the top isn't.

[Jim]

I have a Samsung G9 Odyssey and a 4080, and with ray tracing and HDR on the game looks staggeringly awesome at good frame rates. OP, if you are running at 10fps I am guessing your hardware isn't really up to it.

[Setech]

Originally posted by Gelfan_Dothea:

I'm guessing the top one has the RT, because it shows less detail. Could be wrong though, since the bottom is casting reflections that the top isn't.

The top one is indeed RT, as evident by the broken reflections on the floors that get fixed by RT. The ceiling stops having lighting that doesn't have a source, so it's properly dark. The glass wall with the poster also now reflects properly from off screen and so on.

Small things, but then again we were pretty good at faking lighting before we could simulate it, so there's that.