Keanu Reeves , Idris Elba vs. spending money on actual game design

[BlackSunEmpire]

Why are they always doing that ?
Wouldnt the money be better spend on:

- flashing out the abandoned casino
- implementing a gang war and reputation system
- implementing a wanted system for police chases
- adding more things to do and explore inside the city
- developing true racing AI and having real street races
- making some of the megatowers or rooftops accessible for the player

?

[Booba]

引用自 HYST JDM12983：

I think it's funny how the original poster kept saying "if money isn't an issue, just open up more studies and hire more people"; like that can be done with the snap of a finger or something - no matter how much money you have.

Money makes the world go 'round. It buys and leases equipment and all the various resources and infrastructure needed to make video games. Unlimited wealth would even give CD Projekt Red the ability to outbid every other employer on the planet and guarantee that their studios are filled by all the best people, or else augmented by developers working from a virtual office.

Could it be done with a "snap of the fingers?" No. But then, it takes years to develop a video game anyway and most modern studios grow and evolve in tandem with working on projects -and I don't even know why I'm bothering writing all of this. You're just being snobbish and pedantic as a means to circumvent the point that the OP was making in the first place.

And it's a good point. The money spent on Keanu Reeves -not only paying for his voice but licensing his face- would have been better spent on Mark Meer and a software engineer or two.

As much as I liked seeing the big Keanu-reveal, and as much as I enjoyed all the love, goodwill and memes he fostered with the "you're beautiful" banter, it didn't make for a better game. Just the opposite. Johnny Silverhand ended up being a quantifiable negative, and quite possibly the biggest mistake of this game's development. And that's just really unfortunate.

[white but not quite]

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

引用自 learning is stupid!🤣：

Yup. Moreover, art made exclusively for profit is not going to take any risks, that's why you often see a rehash of the same old crap. It's safe.

As said, large 3D adventure games with 100+ different enemy types simply cant be made by indie games. So if you want to consume them, you have to consume tripple A.

And I agree, it shouldn't be this way. But what do you propose we do? Dismantle the entire system and build socialism?

[Tanoomba]

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

Making a large 3 dimensional action adventure with impressive landscapes, 5-10 large legacy dungeons and hundreds of different enemies plus 20+ different bosses, like Bloodborne or Sekiro, is just not possible for indie studios.

They can achive that in 2D, in games like Hollow Knight, but not in 3D.
They simply do not have the funding and man/womanpower.

So if you want to have a decent 3D action adventure game, which is challenging to play and where you have to figure out stuff on your own, you are mostly out of luck nowadays.

Sure, and I'd like a big-budget Hollywood blockbuster with adrenaline-pumping action scenes, no pandering to foreign audiences, profound and challenging observations about life, intellectual humor and frontal nudity.

We can't always get what we want. Big studios don't produce material to cater to individual wants, they try to cater to the masses and as such there are many things they simply won't do because it would cut into their bottom line. We aren't owed having our desires catered to by AAA studios.

[Tanoomba]

引用自 Scuba Steve：

And it's a good point. The money spent on Keanu Reeves -not only paying for his voice but licensing his face- would have been better spent on Mark Meer and a software engineer or two.

It's not a good point because it wasn't a choice between one or the other. Again, we have no reason to believe lack of funding played any role at all in CP77's development.

引用自 Scuba Steve：

Johnny Silverhand ended up being a quantifiable negative, and quite possibly the biggest mistake of this game's development. And that's just really unfortunate.

No, not "quantifiable". I don't consider Reeves a good actor, but I enjoy his roles and I liked him in CP77. His involvement made the game more fun for me.

[BlackSunEmpire]

引用自 learning is stupid!🤣：

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

As said, large 3D adventure games with 100+ different enemy types simply cant be made by indie games. So if you want to consume them, you have to consume tripple A.

And I agree, it shouldn't be that way. But what do you propose we do? Dismantle the entire system and build socialism?

At this point you cant do anything.
There are just to many casuals, whales and simps who buy no matter the quality.

If most people would be selfaware, we simply could boycott companies like EA or Activision and support companies which are producing quality games. But most people arent selfaware, most of them are consume zombies which care about the hypetrains more then the actual games behind the hypetrains.

The only thing you can do is support indie studios and early access games.
And of course advocate to your government for restricting and disabling online gambling and "surprise mechanics" in games.

And maybe educate your own child that it does not turn out like those milking cows.

[orcaa]

引用自 Scuba Steve：

引用自 HYST JDM12983：

I think it's funny how the original poster kept saying "if money isn't an issue, just open up more studies and hire more people"; like that can be done with the snap of a finger or something - no matter how much money you have.

Money makes the world go 'round. It buys and leases equipment and all the various resources and infrastructure needed to make video games. Unlimited wealth would even give CD Projekt Red the ability to outbid every other employer on the planet and guarantee that their studios are filled by all the best people, or else augmented by developers working from a virtual office.

Could it be done with a "snap of the fingers?" No. But then, it takes years to develop a video game anyway and most modern studios grow and evolve in tandem with working on projects -and I don't even know why I'm bothering writing all of this. You're just being snobbish and pedantic as a means to circumvent the point that the OP was making in the first place.

And it's a good point. The money spent on Keanu Reeves -not only paying for his voice but licensing his face- would have been better spent on Mark Meer and a software engineer or two.

As much as I liked seeing the big Keanu-reveal, and as much as I enjoyed all the love, goodwill and memes he fostered with the "you're beautiful" banter, it didn't make for a better game. Just the opposite. Johnny Silverhand ended up being a quantifiable negative, and quite possibly the biggest mistake of this game's development. And that's just really unfortunate.

I find it interesting that people say this kind of thing but does anybody know what it actually cost to get Keanu to do this game and to license his face compared to the cost of hiring " a software engineer or two " that would have improved the game ?
Or is this just another idle speculation thing that is just some people's unsupported opinion ? Or is there some info someplace that shows the detailed cost breakdowns of the project ?

[white but not quite]

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

If most people would be selfaware, we simply could boycott companies like EA or Activision

How would we "simply boycott" them? Wouldn't that have to be organized and coordinated somehow?

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

And of course advocate to your government for restricting and disabling online gambling and "surprise mechanics" in games.

Haha my "government" is waging a war in Eastern Europe as we speak.

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

There are just to many casuals, whales and simps who buy no matter the quality.

Are there though? How do you figure?

[BlackSunEmpire]

引用自 learning is stupid!🤣：

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

If most people would be selfaware, we simply could boycott companies like EA or Activision

How would we "simply boycott" them? Wouldn't that have to be organized and coordinated somehow?

Not necessarily.
People would just have to come independently from each other to the conclusion that consuming psychological taps like online casinos or progression treadmills are not beneficial for them.

Just like millions of people come every day independently to the conclusion that walking into moving traffic or jumping out of a 3rd floor window is not healthy for them, without having to coordinate that over the internet.

But most gamers are addicts, who rather consume trash than consume nothing at all for only one month, so that will never happen ;)

[white but not quite]

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

引用自 learning is stupid!🤣：

How would we "simply boycott" them? Wouldn't that have to be organized and coordinated somehow?

Not necessarily.
People would just have to come independently from each other to the conclusion that consuming psychological taps like online casinos or progression treadmills are not beneficial for them.

Just like millions of people come every day independently to the conclusion that walking into moving traffic or jumping out of a 3rd floor window is not healthy for them, without having to coordinate that over the internet.

But most gamers are addicts, so that will never happen ;)

What prevents us from walking into traffic is the self-preservation instinct. How would that work for consuming art and entertainment?

Also, do you think that people choose to be addicted? Do you see that as a personal failing?

[Tanoomba]

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

If most people would be selfaware, we simply could boycott companies like EA or Activision and support companies which are producing quality games. But most people arent selfaware, most of them are consume zombies which care about the hypetrains more then the actual games behind the hypetrains.

Self awareness has nothing to do with it. People buy games they like. By and large, they enjoy the games they buy. You can't fault people for enjoying something just because you don't. It's incredibly condescending to imply the majority of the gaming population are simple-minded fools who don't know any better but to buy terrible games.

[Tanoomba]

引用自 orcaa：

Or is this just another idle speculation thing that is just some people's unsupported opinion ?

Ding ding ding.

[Tanoomba]

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

People would just have to come independently from each other to the conclusion that consuming psychological taps like online casinos or progression treadmills are not beneficial for them.

Video games are, by design, psychological traps. They are Skinner boxes designed to give us little bursts of dopamine and make use feel like like we're accomplishing something by pressing buttons. That's not necessarily a bad thing at all, as videa games have truly grown into an art form with limitless potential and there is tremendous variety in what is being produced.

But it is a fallacy to believe that you are playing video games the "right" way and the unwashed masses are consuming trash. We ALL play games to have fun, and we are allowed to have fun in whatever ways we see fit. While it's true that a lot of what AAA studios produce is formulaic and repetitive, it's also true that a tremendous amount of talent, effort and passion go into their development and by and large they are still a lot of fun to play, at least for most.

[BlackSunEmpire]

引用自 learning is stupid!🤣：

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

Not necessarily.
People would just have to come independently from each other to the conclusion that consuming psychological taps like online casinos or progression treadmills are not beneficial for them.

Just like millions of people come every day independently to the conclusion that walking into moving traffic or jumping out of a 3rd floor window is not healthy for them, without having to coordinate that over the internet.

But most gamers are addicts, so that will never happen ;)

What prevents us from moving into traffic is the self-preservation instinct.
How would that work for consuming art though?

Mhh, I wouldnt call Fifa, COD or Diablo Immortal "art" . Those are rather online casinos and overpriced online shops camouflaged as games.

But you are right about the analogy.
Idk its purely theoretical anyways, because people wont stop consuming those products.
But then again 20 years ago a lot of people smoked cigarettes and nowadays only very few people do, at least in the western world ;)

So maybe something similar will happen in regards to online gambling and grinding progression treadmills in games, who knows.

[white but not quite]

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

Mhh, I wouldnt call Fifa, COD or Diablo Immortal "art" . Those are rather online casinos and overpriced online shops camouflaged as games.

But you are right about the analogy.
Idk its pure theoretical anyways, because people wont stop consuming those products.
But then again 20 years ago a lot of people smoked cigarettes and nowadays only very few people do, at least in the western world ;)

So maybe something similar will happen in regards to online gambling and grinding progression treadmills in games, who knows.

Well I see videogames as a medium of art, even though I do recognize the blatant cashgrabs.

Ok, so you're saying if we encourage people to consume high-brow entertainment, it will in turn incentivize the respective industries to produce better art?

[BlackSunEmpire]

引用自 learning is stupid!🤣：

引用自 BlackSunEmpire：

There are just to many casuals, whales and simps who buy no matter the quality.

Are there though? How do you figure?

You can see it on the salesnumbers for games like BF 2042, Diablo Immortal, literally every Fifa or COD game, Fallout 76, Pokémon Scarlet and Violet, .....

引用自 learning is stupid!🤣：

Ok, so you're saying if we encourage people to consume high-brow entertainment, it will in turn incentivize the respective industries to produce better art?

If nobody buys games with build in online casinos, then they go out of business sooner or later. How would they continue to finance themselves, if they have no income and constantly burn money for salaries ?

Its not even so much supporting "high-brow entertainment", but rather not supporting psychological traps. 20 years ago tripple A studios didn't even build psychological traps.
Online gambling in tripple A games became only a thing over the last 15 years.