Kind of a Lore Question

[ozzma]

So I always wonder about this ever since reading Ghost in the Shell. You can get hand, partial and full arm implants in the game, but do the borgs who do that lose the sense of touch in there hands?

It seems like it wouid be more of a downgrade in that case, not unlike Yo-yo in 'Agents of Shield', though she didn't have much of a choice. V does.

[fauxpas]

Not 100% sure but the monk Maelstrom forcibly implanted complains about hus implants "itching" so I assume you have sensations.

[NorthernDavid]

Pretty sure that in the pen and paper game one of the things mentioned was that cyberlimbs had a neural interface so there would be some feedback, if it is of the same quality as natural hands is another question.

[Silverbane7]

i think it depends on the type of replacement, and if it has skin thats designed to look like human.
the metalic arms and legs, probably have less feel than the synthetic skin ones. probably have greater strength, but less feeling.
the synth ones will have finer motor control and feeling, because they are designed to be more human like.

thing is, it depends on what body you chose from what i can tell.
there are quite a few full borg bodies (in the chromebook's, ive seen books 1 thru 3 but havent had a look in book4 yet) available.
most of them are work models, like the Brimstone (firefighter model) the Copernicus (spaceflight model) or the basic Alpha Series (its just a human shaped borg, basic)
there was a special model that was designed to look exactly like a human, even back in 2020. that one was for stealth and infiltration, but was also used by full borg folks if they wanted to be less borg, more flesh like (tho i think the flesh is synthetic, it probably is designed to feel just like a regular human, and that means all the reglular human parts too lol)

it all boils down to style, in cyberpunk.
if you have a choice, you could choose to change out what you have, for something more 'edge'

its not as easy in 2077 as it was in 2015 or 2020. back then, you could be anyone or anything. the big bug eyes you see on one of the UsCracks girls? that was a thing back in the day. so was full body conversions to things we used to call 'exotics'
shark man. snake woman. doberman dog cop. you could get that done if you wanted.
or, green skin and teeth to be an ork. pointy ears and synthetic luster skin to be an elf.
hell, we had things called 'playbeings' who were a rich chooms wet dream.... bunny ears, tails, hormones and pheremones lmao.
that all went with the recesion and the Red.
tech is just starting to catch up in 2077.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by NorthernDavid:

Pretty sure that in the pen and paper game one of the things mentioned was that cyberlimbs had a neural interface so there would be some feedback, if it is of the same quality as natural hands is another question.

One of the Rippers claims it's not as good as organic feelings, but he also claims a hand will affect concentration.

[Zebedee]

The Chromebooks Silverbane mentions have it that cyborgs do (did?) have a sense of touch and use pain editors to remove their ability to feel pain/heat/cold as they need.

[ozzma]

That makes sense. I was thinking it was more like Ghost in the Shell where in one's sense of touch was adjustable. Better then human in the manga at least, but having it also be togglable would be a unalloyed(if you'll forgive the pun) improvement.

I struggled with going Gorilla in my first play-through because I thought it might numb V and that felt a bit evil.

[Rabidnid]

Originally posted by ozzma:

That makes sense. I was thinking it was more like Ghost in the Shell where in one's sense of touch was adjustable. Better then human in the manga at least, but having it also be togglable would be a unalloyed(if you'll forgive the pun) improvement.

I struggled with going Gorilla in my first play-through because I thought it might numb V and that felt a bit evil.

The game is very unsubtle. There are billboards of cyber arms grabbing boobs to make it clear that they have full sensation.

[Wakipai Pero #PLAYGG]

DOKTOR, TURN OFF MY PAIN INHIBITORS

[Alex_x86]

If you can wire up eye implants to the visual nerves why wouldn't it be impossible to wire up sensory implants to the rest of the nerve system?

[ozzma]

So as a related follow up, what might this mean for the people that seem to have metallic skin?

Some of the ritzy servants in corporate buddings seem to have Gold Flesh head to toe, is that an affect or a full epidermis replacement?

[psionyx]

Originally posted by ozzma:

So I always wonder about this ever since reading Ghost in the Shell. You can get hand, partial and full arm implants in the game, but do the borgs who do that lose the sense of touch in there hands?

It seems like it wouid be more of a downgrade in that case, not unlike Yo-yo in 'Agents of Shield', though she didn't have much of a choice. V does.

Seeing as their are ads all over the place, advertising the fact that cybernetics can still feel just as good as flesh "It's all about the touch" and show you various sexual acts, done by cyber hands...(pulling of hair on a woman from behind, implying some...doggy style fun, or cupping a breast), I'm going to say they can still feel just fine. I'm sure some crappy versions probably do have a loss of tactile sensation, on the fine detail level, but think about it from a practical sense. Touch let's you know where your limbs are. So if the standard implant left you with a feeling of your hand constantly being asleep...what good would that do? Fine motor skill activities would be completely out of your league. Hell everything would be really. Honestly try and imagine, going through life, with the sensory input that you are used to, simply from your hand feeling things. Without having to look at them at the same time. That would be a HORRIBLE product to try and actually sell to people. The general idea is that the Cyberpunk level of cybernetics, has reached a point as to be nearly indistinguishable from the real thing. So no, I don't think they, as a rule, lose the sense of touch. It wouldn't make any sense from a practical and marketing standpoint, but it also just wouldn't be the direction that the industry would develop that tech you know?

[ozzma]

Originally posted by psionyx:

Originally posted by ozzma:

So I always wonder about this ever since reading Ghost in the Shell. You can get hand, partial and full arm implants in the game, but do the borgs who do that lose the sense of touch in there hands?

It seems like it wouid be more of a downgrade in that case, not unlike Yo-yo in 'Agents of Shield', though she didn't have much of a choice. V does.

Seeing as their are ads all over the place, advertising the fact that cybernetics can still feel just as good as flesh "It's all about the touch" and show you various sexual acts, done by cyber hands...(pulling of hair on a woman from behind, implying some...doggy style fun, or cupping a breast), I'm going to say they can still feel just fine. I'm sure some crappy versions probably do have a loss of tactile sensation, on the fine detail level, but think about it from a practical sense. Touch let's you know where your limbs are. So if the standard implant left you with a feeling of your hand constantly being asleep...what good would that do? Fine motor skill activities would be completely out of your league. Hell everything would be really. Honestly try and imagine, going through life, with the sensory input that you are used to, simply from your hand feeling things. Without having to look at them at the same time. That would be a HORRIBLE product to try and actually sell to people. The general idea is that the Cyberpunk level of cybernetics, has reached a point as to be nearly indistinguishable from the real thing. So no, I don't think they, as a rule, lose the sense of touch. It wouldn't make any sense from a practical and marketing standpoint, but it also just wouldn't be the direction that the industry would develop that tech you know?

Your right of course, but there are instances in fiction when loss of sensitization is an issue. Yo-yo I mentioned, but also cheap veteran's implants in the Ghost in the Shell show, cheaper implants in general as you say.

[psionyx]

Originally posted by ozzma:

Your right of course, but there are instances in fiction when loss of sensitization is an issue. Yo-yo I mentioned, but also cheap veteran's implants in the Ghost in the Shell show, cheaper implants in general as you say.

Sure, I have no doubt there are isolated cases where people would likely lose sensitivity to some degree due to implants. But I would think that would only fall into the realm of individual stories by writers, who wanted to actually explore that as a story element. The loss of sensation, paralleling the loss of humanity. Existential crisis and body horror kind of stories. Like say for example, someone comes up with a character who has a neurological disorder, that means they HAVE to replace their limbs with implants. But that same neurological disorder, means the brain/limb interface has static. So they now persist in a constant state of "limb waking up" sensation, or that sort of slow drag sensation with your limbs you can sometimes get, if you've ever been really high or drunk. Where it feels like there is a sensory delay between your brain telling the arm to move, and it moving. Or to give it an IRL kind of flavor, have them experience phantom limb syndrome, despite having cybernetic limbs. I can 100% see that kind of thing happening on a case by case, if a writer was looking for that kind of story.

But I don't think that as a general rule, it's something that would actually happen. Too many negatives for that to be the standard outcome. Nobody would WANT to lose the sense of touch, and it's just simply dangerous (burning your hand, it's being crushed and you don't know, etc), and impractical.

[fauxpas]

True, but there is a difference between losing all feeling and having ... 95% feeling, good enough for use hut also in agreement with the Ripperdoc's statements.