Cyberpunk 2077

Cyberpunk 2077

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Forblaze Nov 4, 2022 @ 8:37pm
Ending Question
I just finished the game and was thinking about the endings. Is it me or is suicide the best ending from the world's perspective?

The Arasaka ending results in Arasaka getting an essentially immortal dictator. I suppose with the trend of technology this is inevitable, but you're at least delaying it.

All other endings just involve killing a bunch of people for essentially no reason and then making an alt into some kind of super AI whose intentions are unknown (unless I missed them).

Committing suicide weakens Arasaka (and presumably militech if the potential war that's alluded to in the Arasaka ending happens) and slows down Alt's plan for the foreseeable future. Seems like all upsides for none of the down.
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well pretty much after you get the relic into your head, your only end could be a dead so you know we cant remove the relic so yea and in the end you have it in your head for long time so it change your mind so you dying
Vela Darney Nov 10, 2022 @ 12:39pm 
Originally posted by Forblaze:
Committing suicide weakens Arasaka (and presumably militech if the potential war that's alluded to in the Arasaka ending happens) and slows down Alt's plan for the foreseeable future. Seems like all upsides for none of the down.

I dunno - did you see the voicemails during the credits of the suicide ending? I'd pretty much consider traumatizing and emotionally damaging my friends for the rest of their lives a downside ... but maybe that's just me. (Judy's is particularly heartwrenching.)
Forblaze Nov 10, 2022 @ 3:09pm 
Originally posted by Vela Darney:
Originally posted by Forblaze:
Committing suicide weakens Arasaka (and presumably militech if the potential war that's alluded to in the Arasaka ending happens) and slows down Alt's plan for the foreseeable future. Seems like all upsides for none of the down.

I dunno - did you see the voicemails during the credits of the suicide ending? I'd pretty much consider traumatizing and emotionally damaging my friends for the rest of their lives a downside ... but maybe that's just me. (Judy's is particularly heartwrenching.)

I don't think you can really weigh that against the global consequences.
Zebedee Nov 10, 2022 @ 3:46pm 
Alt ending is better than it seems but (currently at least) the game doesn't signal that. Alt is running safe havens for AIs (including "ghosts" - or those digitised by Arasaka's use of Soulkiller) outside of corporate control. At the time of Cyberpunk Red, 2045, Alt and other AI were trying to arrange a deal with Netwatch to clean up the net which might be a positive for humanity with getting access to lost information/research.

There's a few strands in the background lore to the whole 'Saburo will never die' thing too. Hanako is researching how to use Soulkiller to put people into clones (very, very vaguely nodded at in the Arasaka ending some 30 years after Red).
Vela Darney Nov 10, 2022 @ 4:19pm 
Originally posted by Forblaze:
Originally posted by Vela Darney:

I dunno - did you see the voicemails during the credits of the suicide ending? I'd pretty much consider traumatizing and emotionally damaging my friends for the rest of their lives a downside ... but maybe that's just me. (Judy's is particularly heartwrenching.)

I don't think you can really weigh that against the global consequences.

So you're not gonna give a ♥♥♥♥ about hurting the people closest to you (close enough to consider family), the people you LOVE because you wanna play the big savior? Oh boy, that's quite the savior complex ...

And besides, we don't know the world DOESN'T go to ♥♥♥♥ if V kills themselves. There's still Hanako and Yorinobu fighting for control of Arasaka and depending on who wins, either Yorinobu will slowly destroy Arasaka from the inside (not ideal cos it creates a power vacuum and we know how that kind of thing tends to go) or Hanako will bring back Saburo (in which case, the world and especially Night City is ♥♥♥♥♥♥, too - we're talking about the guy who was considering bombing Night City into the ground purely on a whim, because he could, did you read that guy's diar?). Looking at these options, personally, I'd rather go with NOT traumatizing all my loved ones by killing myself and also help out Yorinobu by attacking 'Saka Tower once again because a new corpo war IS preferable over Saburo becoming more or less immortal. At least, in a corpo war, you got a chance of making it out alive ...
Forblaze Nov 10, 2022 @ 4:44pm 
Originally posted by Vela Darney:
So you're not gonna give a ♥♥♥♥ about hurting the people closest to you (close enough to consider family), the people you LOVE because you wanna play the big savior? Oh boy, that's quite the savior complex ...

I'm not really sure why you're taking this so personally.

Originally posted by Vela Darney:
And besides, we don't know the world DOESN'T go to ♥♥♥♥ if V kills themselves. There's still Hanako and Yorinobu fighting for control of Arasaka and depending on who wins, either Yorinobu will slowly destroy Arasaka from the inside (not ideal cos it creates a power vacuum and we know how that kind of thing tends to go) or Hanako will bring back Saburo (in which case, the world and especially Night City is ♥♥♥♥♥♥, too - we're talking about the guy who was considering bombing Night City into the ground purely on a whim, because he could, did you read that guy's diar?).

In the Panam ending, you can hear over the radio that Hanako was killed. So we can infer that Hanako proceeds with her plan to interrupt the shareholder meeting without you and is killed. I would presume that you committing suicide wouldn't change this, so we can presume she dies in the suicide ending. In the Arasaka ending, we hear on TV about how Saburo coming back may prevent a war between Arasaka and Militech and that Yorinobu in particular was antagonizing them. So we can assume that if Yorinobu retains power and you don't hurt Arasaka that the war with Militech will happen, hurting both corps.

Originally posted by Vela Darney:
Looking at these options, personally, I'd rather go with NOT traumatizing all my loved ones by killing myself and also help out Yorinobu by attacking 'Saka Tower once again because a new corpo war IS preferable over Saburo becoming more or less immortal. At least, in a corpo war, you got a chance of making it out alive ...

Well no, you don't make it out alive in any ending. V will die no matter what, and attacking Arasaka tower gives Alt some nondescript power and unclear intentions. Someone else said her intentions aren't malicious, so maybe it's fine, but we already see how lethal she is in that ending *before* she integrates all of the engrams in mikoshi. Attacking Arasaka tower is also said to be a pretty big blow to them in the Sun ending, so it may not even be guaranteed that Yorinobu proceeds with his presumed plan for a war.
Last edited by Forblaze; Nov 10, 2022 @ 4:45pm
Vela Darney Nov 10, 2022 @ 6:03pm 
Originally posted by Forblaze:
Well no, you don't make it out alive in any ending. V will die no matter what, and attacking Arasaka tower gives Alt some nondescript power and unclear intentions. Someone else said her intentions aren't malicious, so maybe it's fine, but we already see how lethal she is in that ending *before* she integrates all of the engrams in mikoshi. Attacking Arasaka tower is also said to be a pretty big blow to them in the Sun ending, so it may not even be guaranteed that Yorinobu proceeds with his presumed plan for a war.

I never said V makes it out alive. Fyi, that was a general "you" as in "you all out there", not specifically talking aobut V. When I mean V specifically, I'll say V. Of course, V dies after six months, no matter what (unless, of course, you assume that either Mr. Blue Eyes might be able to help them, which I, personally, wouldn't put behind him, I mean, he's with the faction that can REWRITE MINDS ... or you assume the Aldecaldos might indeed manage to find someone who can help V, which I also wouldn't put into the realm of the impossible because we KNOW the Aldecaldos will move heaven and Earth for V, OR, if you go with the Arasaka ending, there's always that option of going into Mikoshi and maybe being resurrected, like, 50 years in the future or so).

BUT - V has six months. Six months to get their things in order, six months to spend with their loved ones, properly saying goodbye and at least trying to give them the closure they need. And maybe give themselves that closure, too. Personally, if I were V's friend, I'd prefer that over finding V up on that roof with their brains splattered all over the place and not even a farewell letter. Live your best life for those six months, throw one hell of a farewell party with all your friends/family, give them lots of good memories that'll make them smile (or even laugh) when they think of you and then, rest in peace.

Edit: Forgot Alt. I don't like Alt. I don't trust Alt. I think Alt's a calculating, manipulative ♥♥♥♥♥ who's subtly trying (through the poem she quotes in Mikoshi) to manipulate V into giving their body to Johnny (at that point, she KNOWS V's gonna die). I don't know why she'd want Johnny back and alive in a new body. Maybe Alt needs V for some purpose we don't know of (yet). Maybe she wants to punish Johnny for killing her and see him miserable (because he did the one thing he said he wouldn't and basically "killed" V). Maybe she needs Johnny out in the real world so, when the time comes, she can contact him and call in a favour, cos he definitely owes her for killing her. I don't know her agenda and for the time being, I don't care about her agenda cos, for the time being, she's the problem of Netwatch and the Voodoo Boys.

Maybe I'm taking this suicide thing so personally because, throughout that game, there's all those people V helps with one thing or another. And in some small way, V indeed manages to make things better for them (if you do it right). V helps River save his nephew - so River does NOT go and ruin his life by killing Peter Pan and does NOT end up in prison. Judy finally leaves Night City, one way or another (which is good, that city's killing her). Kerry's pulled out of his depression and I'm pretty sure he indeed will go on tour with Us Cracks, and they'll have a blast. Panam and Saul together are THE perfect leaders for the Aldecaldos since they balance each other out nicely (as much as I like Panam, she on her own wouldn't be right as leader for the Aldecaldos - too impulsive). Rogue gets to retire and enjoy whatever it is she enjoys (maybe go visit her son, who knows?). Mama Welles doesn't have to bury yet another kid (read: V, whom she's pretty much adopted). And Misty and Vik seem to be doing well, too.

And then, V goes and blows their brains out and ruins all of that (again)? Mama Welles loses another kid. Vik blames himself because he didn't do more. Panam and Judy are both devastated in their own way (especially devastating for Judy in case you romance her - she's only just lost Evelyn to suicide and now V goes and does the same thing? Wouldn't be surprised if she threw herself off a megabuilding not long after her voicemail). Kerry falls back into depression (and I got a feeling, before long, will end up in the shower with a gun again and this time, no one will stop him).

Why bother helping them at all if you're gonna ruin it again? Could just as well save yourself the effort. I guess I can see how one could consider the suicide ending "balanced" since, in the greater scheme of things, it might be the ending where V doesn't tip the scales either way. Personally, though, I call it the "selfish ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ending" because it destroys everything V's accomplished in Night City (maybe not for themselves but for other people).

As for Yorinobu - his big goal is to destroy Arasaka. Everything his father built. Whether he goes about that by slowly dismantling it from the inside by "restructuring" it (he already stopped the Relic program in the Sun ending, costing them billions) or by starting a war with Militech ... *shrugs* I guess anything goes. And we of course can ASSUME that Hanako got killed at the shareholder meeting even without V's interference. It's just as likely that she only died in that meeting because of the chaos V caused with their attack on the tower. Or that she wasn't even there because V wasn't there to help break her out of Arasaka mansion. Or that she didn't get killed and managed to go through with her plans, which means poor Yori's toast. Really, anything goes, in case of the suicide ending.
Last edited by Vela Darney; Nov 10, 2022 @ 6:09pm
Forblaze Nov 10, 2022 @ 7:49pm 
Sorry but nothing you're saying is really that persuasive. You just can't compare "Mama Welles would be sad" to "everything gets worse for everyone in the world"

It's also a bit hypocritical considering attacking Arasaka tower will involve killing everyone there when Alt gets patched in. You think nameless guard #56 didn't have friends and families that would be equally sad?
Leynx & Fenrir Nov 11, 2022 @ 2:43am 
The suicide and running alone in Arasaka are like the only endings / paths that give agency to the player in a kind of [censored] that [censored]!

Plus, with both you do not harm anyone else (Possible to do with running alone in Arasaka as well)

Originally posted by Forblaze:
It's also a bit hypocritical considering attacking Arasaka tower will involve killing everyone there when Alt gets patched in. You think nameless guard #56 didn't have friends and families that would be equally sad?

That could be right from classic Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery

NB: Regarding Hanako's death, I though it was Alt's doing since she fried the brain of anyone connected in the tower
Last edited by Leynx & Fenrir; Nov 11, 2022 @ 2:56am
Vela Darney Nov 11, 2022 @ 8:37am 
Originally posted by Forblaze:
Sorry but nothing you're saying is really that persuasive. You just can't compare "Mama Welles would be sad" to "everything gets worse for everyone in the world"

It's also a bit hypocritical considering attacking Arasaka tower will involve killing everyone there when Alt gets patched in. You think nameless guard #56 didn't have friends and families that would be equally sad?

Guess I'm just selfish, then, cos I don't give a flying ♥♥♥♥ about "everyone in the world", but I DO give a ♥♥♥♥ about the people I care about. Guess it's just a matter of perspective - do you want to be someone who saves the rest of the world but is an absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to their loved ones? I'll stick with calling the suicide end the "selfish ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ end".

As for being hypocritical - you think nameless 'Saka guard #56 did never EVER kill anyone on orders from their Arasaka bosses who didn't deserve it? Cos if you do, you've clearly not run across that one Arasaka "clean-up" operation under that one bridge, where they killed an ENTIRE CAMP OF HOMELESS just to get ONE SINGLE person (cos they didn't want any witnesses). I, personally, don't see a problem with killing people who have no problem with killing innocent bystanders just because. (Yes, I did make sure not a single one of those Araska goons there made it back home that day and no, I don't regret it. They had it coming.) Those 'Saka guards aren't just Average Joe Security Guard who's doing the rounds making sure no one steals anyrthing after hours - they're killers.


The ones I do feel sorry for are the office workers who got caught up in the mess. Even Johnny, with all his hatred for Arasaka, didn't want to kill that kind of people - they were supposed to evacuate before the bomb went off, but since the bomb went off too early ... Those folks are just people who're trying to make a living in a system that's built to grind them down where, for every one of them breaking down, there's at least a handful of others eager and ready to take that place.
r.linder Nov 12, 2022 @ 10:49am 
The worst thing you can possibly do is help Arasaka, the best thing you can do is help destroy them by helping Alt destroy Mikoshi. They are one of the greatest evils in the franchise, and for what Yorinobu was trying to do to his family's legacy, he was a hero. He could have just submitted and done what he was told, but he chose to put an end to his father's tyranny. By stopping him and allowing Saburo to return, you're allowing Mikoshi to continue to exist, and you're allowing Arasaka to continue to develop its experimental Relic, the same technology that's killing you and stripping you of everything that makes you who you are. There's no telling where Saburo would take it after revealing that he was successfully able to take his son's body and extend his own lifespan another 50+ years, which he could potentially just repeat with future generations of his family.

Killing yourself doesn't benefit anyone, not a single person. You only hurt people that care about you, and your death was a pointless waste when it would have made more sense to use your remaining lifespan to do something useful.

The best ending in the game is chaining (Don't Fear) The Reaper into Temperance, because nobody V cares about has to die just to get V into Mikoshi, and both V and Johnny survive in Temperance, just in different ways. Johnny may keep V's body, but it's a willing sacrifice on V's part, but that's not the end for V as Alt takes them (along with everyone else that was trapped inside Mikoshi) to the Ghost City in Hong Kong, China that she'd built for Kang Tao years prior. It's a digital paradise for human AI, it's not the end for V, it's just a new chapter.
Akira Nov 20, 2022 @ 7:59pm 
Originally posted by 尺.し工几句ヨ尺:
it's not the end for V, it's just a new chapter.
It's not the end to V's copy, V him/herself dies either way.

That's the entire philosophical point of the game. Alt stating that Soulkiller does "precisely" what it's names implies, that she and the Johnny V meets are not the Alt and Johnny who once walked the earth. The whole point in the monks quests and V questioning them "is a construct a life?"

It's a hell of a homage to Ghost in the Shell and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

"You know very well everything changes."
r.linder Nov 20, 2022 @ 9:48pm 
Originally posted by Akira:
Originally posted by 尺.し工几句ヨ尺:
it's not the end for V, it's just a new chapter.
It's not the end to V's copy, V him/herself dies either way.

That's the entire philosophical point of the game. Alt stating that Soulkiller does "precisely" what it's names implies, that she and the Johnny V meets are not the Alt and Johnny who once walked the earth. The whole point in the monks quests and V questioning them "is a construct a life?"

It's a hell of a homage to Ghost in the Shell and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

"You know very well everything changes."
It's certainly debatable and determined by one's philosophical standpoint on what constitutes humanity or sentient life, which mostly encompasses the mind, the body is nothing more than a vessel and there's still no concrete scientific evidence that the "soul" exists, so all we have to go on is the mind.

I'd say that constructs are "alive" being that they're pretty much perfect copies of the mind they were ripped from, even if it is digitized, the Relic is just the key to bridging the brain and the data contained.
Last edited by r.linder; Nov 20, 2022 @ 9:50pm
Damedius Sep 26, 2023 @ 7:38am 
Is it really the ending that is the problem or the entire premise and narrative of Cyberpunk 2077 the problem?

Being forced to slot a chip or else it will be destroyed, followed by you're going to die so let's do some side quests for the next 40 hours.

I would argue that the narrative was trash from the start and was only saved by good voice acting.
r.linder Sep 26, 2023 @ 3:41pm 
Originally posted by Damedius:
Is it really the ending that is the problem or the entire premise and narrative of Cyberpunk 2077 the problem?

Being forced to slot a chip or else it will be destroyed, followed by you're going to die so let's do some side quests for the next 40 hours.

I would argue that the narrative was trash from the start and was only saved by good voice acting.
Nah, narrative is fine, you just haven’t grasped what all of it is supposed to mean yet.
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