How Cyberpsychosis works and why V doesnt get affected. From Mike Pondsmith himself(creator of Cyberpunk).

[Alt]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/xklzsx/why_doesnt_v_get_cyberpsychosis/ipffmf4/?context=3
"Okay, so time to (partially) explain CYBERPSYCHOSIS.

First of all, Cyberpsychosis is a disorder that in part depends on the subject's overall internal susceptibility. Just like every person who drinks a lot at parties doesn't end up an alcoholic in the gutter, not everyone who gets loaded up on cyberware is going to automatically go cyberpsycho. You have to have an inherent susceptibility, which (in the TRPG) is represented by the player's Humanity Stat. Humanity is not just a measure of one aspect of personality, but an overall measure of several elements including the subject's ability to emphasize and relate with others, their ability to absorb and rebound from mental and physical stressors, their ability to show compassion and flexibility to others, and whether they are able to balance their worldview through other methods.

So, in some ways, I tend to treat cyberware as an addiction--heavy anabolic steroid use being my favorite model. Not everyone who juices ends up crazy mad with roid rage. But those who are more susceptible to the need to take more steroids are more likely to hit a point where they do flip into roid rage. (Take a look at this article from Livescience https://www.livescience.com/38354-what-is-roid-rage.html for a pretty good idea of how roid rage works--notice that it's got the same basic profile as cyberpsychosis).

David's starting Humanity was probably already pretty high. And before things went to crap, he had a loving mother, a career path, and no more hassle than the average poor guy in a wealthy Ivy League school. So he had lots of buffer. But even so, he still, even after losing all that, was able to make friends, build a replacement family, and (after some prompting) even get a girlfriend. And a mentor (Maine) to create a supportive father figure. So he could definitely handle the stress of added cyberware up to a point.

Most people in Night City don't have the level of Humanity to pull this kind of stunt off without going cyberpsychotic. So David is one in a million. And that's why Arasaka wants him.

V is a different case. We don't know V's background, but even if V was a full on Corpo, they were able to hold it together even when they ended up with a dead Rockerboy in their heads (Yah, tell me about it; Johnny Silverhand's been in my head for the last three decades.) In fact, having Johnny in their head probably helped V, because Siilverhand's rage and attitude probably acted as a buffer for the psychological hits V is taking. It's like having a time share with a guy who's already half cyberpsycho and doesn't mind if V slaps stuff on their shared body; he's already crazy and violent.

So that's a rough explanation of the roots of cyberpsychosis. If I ever get band width, I'm going to start writing/posting some stuff about what I had in mind as I put together the Night City universe. But for now, you'll have to go with what I've got here. Have fun, and remember not to chip mili-spec cyberware, like your mother warned you about.

And no, cyberpsychosis isn't caused by AI net demons. Gimme a break, chooms!"

[Grobut]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

You absolutely can and do buy military cyberware as V. It shouldn't be available over-the-counter but it is, for gameplay's sake. Here is the description of the "Falcon" Sandevistan for example;

"Manufactured by Militech, the "Falcon" is hands down...

No no no no, not the same thing. Not even the same ballpark.

Militech consumer grade scop, and the stuff they actually keep to themselves and their own agents, completely different thing.

V couldn't destroy an M1-Abrams for instance, but there exist military grade implants that absolutely can in this setting. That's what i mean by "military grade", the real deal heavy stuff.

That's the stuff the humanity stat was created to limit, because in the P&P game, you can buy much more powerful cyberware (you can't just waltz into a Ripper's office and get it, but there are ways of obtaining it from the black market).

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Grobut:

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

You absolutely can and do buy military cyberware as V. It shouldn't be available over-the-counter but it is, for gameplay's sake. Here is the description of the "Falcon" Sandevistan for example;

"Manufactured by Militech, the "Falcon" is hands down...

No no no no, not the same thing. Not even the same ballpark.

Militech consumer grade scop, and the stuff they actually keep to themselves and their own agents, completely different thing.

V couldn't destroy an M1-Abrams for instance, but there exist military grade implants that absolutely can in this setting. That's what i mean by "military grade", the real deal heavy stuff.

That's the stuff the humanity stat was created to limit, because in the P&P game, you can buy much more powerful cyberware (you can't just waltz into a Ripper's office and get it, but there are ways of obtaining it from the black market).

It literally says right in the description that elite Militech soldiers used it and it's only "now" available to consumers; like I said, for gameplay purposes there is no line drawn between civil and military, or legal and illegal for that matter. If the game had been the RPG that was promised maybe things could have been different.

David destroyed more than an M1-Abrams, he destroyed an entire fleet of armoured Militech vehicles and maybe a hundred of their soldiers. And he got zeroed with ease by Smasher. And Smasher got smashed by V. What else can we interpret from that, except that V has some very advanced chrome?

[D0P3F15H]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by D0P3F15H:

Hey the Relic's already nebulous enough to revive V from being shot in the head so let's say it also prevent them from going psycho too?

I mentioned in another thread that this was pretty much already my head canon explanation. The Relic's nanobots repair and overwrite the brain, so they also inadvertently fix any brain damage from cyberpsychosis in the process. That explanation actually feels better to me than the one Mike Pondsmith went with, of Johnny just being so sassy that he buffers all the crazy with his rebel peptalks. But it's his Universe.

Hell why can't it be both? Johnny's a combat vet so he knows how to keep his cool, and the Relic wants a viable brain.

Good work team, we answered the question.

[Grobut]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

David destroyed more than an M1-Abrams, he destroyed an entire fleet of armoured Militech vehicles and maybe a hundred of their soldiers. And he got zeroed with ease by Smasher. And Smasher got smashed by V. What else can we interpret from that, except that V has some very advanced chrome?

Ohh i dont know, maybe the fact that Edgerunners is an over the top animu with lots of overindulgent violence, because animu, and CP77 is a videogame where the player needs to be able to defeat the boss, because videogame.

Maybe that?

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Grobut:

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

David destroyed more than an M1-Abrams, he destroyed an entire fleet of armoured Militech vehicles and maybe a hundred of their soldiers. And he got zeroed with ease by Smasher. And Smasher got smashed by V. What else can we interpret from that, except that V has some very advanced chrome?

Ohh i dont know, maybe the fact that Edgerunners is an over the top animu with lots of overindulgent violence, because animu, and CP77 is a videogame where the player needs to be able to defeat the boss, because videogame.

Maybe that?

Mike Pondsmith was a creative consultant and he OK'd literally all of this. It's all made up, so what exactly is the difference? This is canon now.

[Alt]

Originally posted by D0P3F15H:

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

I mentioned in another thread that this was pretty much already my head canon explanation. The Relic's nanobots repair and overwrite the brain, so they also inadvertently fix any brain damage from cyberpsychosis in the process. That explanation actually feels better to me than the one Mike Pondsmith went with, of Johnny just being so sassy that he buffers all the crazy with his rebel peptalks. But it's his Universe.

Hell why can't it be both? Johnny's a combat vet so he knows how to keep his cool, and the Relic wants a viable brain.

Good work team, we answered the question.

Considering this is what answered to people Mike Pondsmith himself. People still continue speculate even in the thread where it got answered by creator of Cyberpunk universe...

[D0P3F15H]

Originally posted by Alt:

Originally posted by D0P3F15H:

Hell why can't it be both? Johnny's a combat vet so he knows how to keep his cool, and the Relic wants a viable brain.

Good work team, we answered the question.

Considering this is what answered to people Mike Pondsmith himself. People still continue speculate even in the thread where it got answered by creator of Cyberpunk universe...

I, for one, haven't seen of heard these interviews. But it's pretty cool the design still lead to the same conclusion, so props for that!

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Alt:

Originally posted by D0P3F15H:

Hell why can't it be both? Johnny's a combat vet so he knows how to keep his cool, and the Relic wants a viable brain.

Good work team, we answered the question.

Considering this is what answered to people Mike Pondsmith himself. People still continue speculate even in the thread where it got answered by creator of Cyberpunk universe...

I'm not speculating, I said that was my head canon explanation. And that I prefer it to Mike Pondsmith's canon explanation which is, no offence to him, odd. Having a split personality and hallucinating an edgelord rocker everywhere you go surely wouldn't help anybody's mental state, it'd make it worse.

[D0P3F15H]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by Alt:

Considering this is what answered to people Mike Pondsmith himself. People still continue speculate even in the thread where it got answered by creator of Cyberpunk universe...

I'm not speculating, I said that was my head canon explanation. And that I prefer it to Mike Pondsmith's canon explanation which is, no offence to him, odd. Having a split personality and hallucinating an edgelord rocker everywhere you go surely wouldn't help anybody's mental state, it'd make it worse.

My dude, the Reilic did the work and the Engram was at best a stabiliser. Though as you say might have done more damage than good.

Edit: This is why I say Devil ending is the only proper ending

[r.linder]

Don't forget that the Relic also changes V so much that not even Arasaka can find a compatible vessel for V's engram, because V's phenotype has become completely unique as a result of the Relic, because his/her mind was effectively merging with Johnny's.

[Bahamut_A6M5]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by Alt:

Considering this is what answered to people Mike Pondsmith himself. People still continue speculate even in the thread where it got answered by creator of Cyberpunk universe...

I'm not speculating, I said that was my head canon explanation. And that I prefer it to Mike Pondsmith's canon explanation which is, no offence to him, odd. Having a split personality and hallucinating an edgelord rocker everywhere you go surely wouldn't help anybody's mental state, it'd make it worse.

This is most sensible. Mechanically speaking, I would go into saying that having Johnny's engram at best could mean "sharing" (that is, splitting in half) the psycological impact cyberware has: V takes half the humanity points loss, Johnny takes the other half. That still wouldn't prevent V from going cuckoo if too much chrome was implanted.

Still, there's an issue. Cyberpsychosis is psycological damage, not brain damage. Brain might still be perfectly fine (neuron-wise), but still suffer from some neurosis. I mean, if nanotechnology could heal PTSD by "rewiring" neural pathways or neurons, Mitch, Scorpion or Johnny himself wouldn't have walked away from a war suffering it.

[Alt]

Originally posted by D0P3F15H:

Originally posted by Alt:

Considering this is what answered to people Mike Pondsmith himself. People still continue speculate even in the thread where it got answered by creator of Cyberpunk universe...

I, for one, haven't seen of heard these interviews. But it's pretty cool the design still lead to the same conclusion, so props for that!

It is literally written in my post. I quoted original response by Mike Pondsmith :)

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Bahamut_A6M5:

Still, there's an issue. Cyberpsychosis is psycological damage, not brain damage. Brain might still be perfectly fine (neuron-wise), but still suffer from some neurosis. I mean, if nanotechnology could heal PTSD by "rewiring" neural pathways or neurons, Mitch, Scorpion or Johnny himself wouldn't have walked away from a war suffering it.

If the Relic can erase and alter every single aspect of a personality, memories, quirks, the whole nine yards, you would have to assume fixing psychological damage like PTSD would be child's play by comparison. You'd also have to assume that it must happen for Soulkiller to achieve it's goal. Johnny didn't have cyberpsychosis at the time he became an engram, so when Soulkiller has finished it's program any cyberpsychosis V picked up during the "walking ghost phase" would be eradicated along with their personality, memories and everything else.

[D0P3F15H]

Originally posted by Alt:

Originally posted by D0P3F15H:

I, for one, haven't seen of heard these interviews. But it's pretty cool the design still lead to the same conclusion, so props for that!

It is literally written in my post. I quoted original response by Mike Pondsmith :)

Considering I honestly tl;dr that post and still came to a similar conclusion props to Pondsmith for having a reason for V not going psycho that could be worked out by a bunch of idiots in an afternoon :P

[Bahamut_A6M5]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by Bahamut_A6M5:

Still, there's an issue. Cyberpsychosis is psycological damage, not brain damage. Brain might still be perfectly fine (neuron-wise), but still suffer from some neurosis. I mean, if nanotechnology could heal PTSD by "rewiring" neural pathways or neurons, Mitch, Scorpion or Johnny himself wouldn't have walked away from a war suffering it.

If the Relic can erase and alter every single aspect of a personality, memories, quirks, the whole nine yards, you would have to assume fixing psychological damage like PTSD would be child's play by comparison. You'd also have to assume that it must happen for Soulkiller to achieve it's goal. Johnny didn't have cyberpsychosis at the time he became an engram, so when Soulkiller has finished it's program any cyberpsychosis V picked up during the "walking ghost phase" would be eradicated along with their personality, memories and everything else.

But the Relic doesn't erase, rewrites. The Relic is rewritting V's neural pathways to accomodate Johnny's personality. And in the process, as V and Johnny interact, changes happens in both V's and Johnny's personalities, which leads to an even more amusing state: V's brain is also naturally creating neural pathways, as the Relic modifies others to fit the reshaped personality of Johnny. So, it's a process about sharing memories, quirks, psychological traits to create a new personality construct which isn't neither V nor Johnny and it's both simultaneously. I don't see the Relic working as perfectly as you intend, but rather a tool for creating an even "nastier" mess.