How Cyberpsychosis works and why V doesnt get affected. From Mike Pondsmith himself(creator of Cyberpunk).

[Alt]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/xklzsx/why_doesnt_v_get_cyberpsychosis/ipffmf4/?context=3
"Okay, so time to (partially) explain CYBERPSYCHOSIS.

First of all, Cyberpsychosis is a disorder that in part depends on the subject's overall internal susceptibility. Just like every person who drinks a lot at parties doesn't end up an alcoholic in the gutter, not everyone who gets loaded up on cyberware is going to automatically go cyberpsycho. You have to have an inherent susceptibility, which (in the TRPG) is represented by the player's Humanity Stat. Humanity is not just a measure of one aspect of personality, but an overall measure of several elements including the subject's ability to emphasize and relate with others, their ability to absorb and rebound from mental and physical stressors, their ability to show compassion and flexibility to others, and whether they are able to balance their worldview through other methods.

So, in some ways, I tend to treat cyberware as an addiction--heavy anabolic steroid use being my favorite model. Not everyone who juices ends up crazy mad with roid rage. But those who are more susceptible to the need to take more steroids are more likely to hit a point where they do flip into roid rage. (Take a look at this article from Livescience https://www.livescience.com/38354-what-is-roid-rage.html for a pretty good idea of how roid rage works--notice that it's got the same basic profile as cyberpsychosis).

David's starting Humanity was probably already pretty high. And before things went to crap, he had a loving mother, a career path, and no more hassle than the average poor guy in a wealthy Ivy League school. So he had lots of buffer. But even so, he still, even after losing all that, was able to make friends, build a replacement family, and (after some prompting) even get a girlfriend. And a mentor (Maine) to create a supportive father figure. So he could definitely handle the stress of added cyberware up to a point.

Most people in Night City don't have the level of Humanity to pull this kind of stunt off without going cyberpsychotic. So David is one in a million. And that's why Arasaka wants him.

V is a different case. We don't know V's background, but even if V was a full on Corpo, they were able to hold it together even when they ended up with a dead Rockerboy in their heads (Yah, tell me about it; Johnny Silverhand's been in my head for the last three decades.) In fact, having Johnny in their head probably helped V, because Siilverhand's rage and attitude probably acted as a buffer for the psychological hits V is taking. It's like having a time share with a guy who's already half cyberpsycho and doesn't mind if V slaps stuff on their shared body; he's already crazy and violent.

So that's a rough explanation of the roots of cyberpsychosis. If I ever get band width, I'm going to start writing/posting some stuff about what I had in mind as I put together the Night City universe. But for now, you'll have to go with what I've got here. Have fun, and remember not to chip mili-spec cyberware, like your mother warned you about.

And no, cyberpsychosis isn't caused by AI net demons. Gimme a break, chooms!"

[Tanoomba]

RACHMANOVSKI の投稿を引用：

Anime as story telling medium objectively has died since the bubble burst. Now it's just commercial product to sell fleshlight and pachinko machine.

That's not how objectivity works.

[Grobut]

Tech-Priest の投稿を引用：

Lets be honest, V doesn't have that much chrome.

This is a pretty important point. ^

Even if you buy and install all the chrome the game will let you, you're still a lightweight compared to the average Maelstrom goon, so you're not exactly pushing the envelope here. You're not chromed to the gills like Smasher is, and you can't buy any top grade military tech, it's all legal over the counter stuff.

In the Pen and Paper game, you could get and install much heavier hardware, like shoulder-mounted rocket pods and such, like Smasher has actually, and the humanity stat mainly existed just to ensure you coulden't buy and install all of these goodies.

What David got his hands on was not regular over the counter stuff..

[Hao Zhao]

Cyberpsychosis happens over months or years. V doesn't get it because all of CP2077 takes place over a few weeks

But the real reason is that the developers just couldn't be bothered to develop an additional system that would place a soft limit on the cyberware the player can install and then punish the player for exceeding that limit

[Sea Base]

Alt の投稿を引用：

Sea Base の投稿を引用：

Please point out where in Edgerunners where there are philosophical debates that draw in religious texts or their equivalent to highlight different aspects of the various components to the arguments that characters take with each other...

The Cyberpunk anime is great, but trying to say it's as deep as the first GitS is kinda laughable. But that is an unfair standard to try to match.

its in the same message. I already said that in order to tell a deep story you dont need to spend so much time on all that brooding and dip into religious texts. People seems to love pointing out singles sentences the moment they see them, without reading whole message and thinking over it before responding

Sea Base の投稿を引用：

As for the cyberpsycho stuff, as others have pointed out, V has very little chrome and V has Johnny to pin all perceived psychological displacements on, thus there is no self destructive self questioning forcing a further hunger to self medicate that feeds into an addiction cycle.

Dont need to tell me that, already pointed this out. But i would not say V has little chrome. In the game you can replace legs, hands, skin, strengthen your muscles and bones. And im not even talking about Sandavistan. V just doesnt have enough time to stop and think to fall into that pit of despair that could potentially lead to cyberpsychosis. Not with dead rocker boy in her/his head and looming death. I would say doing all those GiG's and side quests, between main missions, allows V to be clear headed, to not think about that depressing sh*t. + funny, wholesome and not so wholesome moments with Johnny

I did read your whole message and those moments are incredibly shallow. They show one facet, one emotion, one context. There is no thinking involved, nor is there any character revelation. That's kinda apart of the charm of the story, a fatalistic movement by all the characters because they do not fundamentally change or think about what is happening to them.
That's not deep though, and it's audience appeal is down to that same formula of fatalism being applied but with a tragic ending, where as the vast majority of the time in media its a happy ending.

Honestly just sounds like GitS core story went right over your head if you think that matches.

[D0P3F15H]

RACHMANOVSKI の投稿を引用：

No, I understand perfectly. Cyberpsychosis vs. Humanity. David Humanity supposedly High.

Pondsmith can say anything he want and you can believe anything you want. But what I talk is about character depiction, David is bland. Rebecca has personality. David has nothing.

The anime is a 6 or 7 tops.

Anime as story telling medium objectively has died since the bubble burst. Now it's just commercial product to sell fleshlight and pachinko machine.

Edgerunners wasn't necessarily a bad anime, it just does not hit most of great story telling and/or visual story telling checklist compared to AKIRA or the original Ghost in the Shell.

My man I agree 100%. I watched the first 3 episodes and thought "who are these characters and why should I care enough to watch another 3 hours?" and stopped.

Then a few days later I thought I should at least try to see if it answered the questions, anime can be slow to give you answers sometimes after all -cough-Ghost In The Shell-cough-, and guess what..

The animation is great, obviously I like the world it's set in, but meh to everything else. 6.5 out of 10 like you said

[SnuffSaid]

Grobut の投稿を引用：

Tech-Priest の投稿を引用：

Lets be honest, V doesn't have that much chrome.

This is a pretty important point. ^

Even if you buy and install all the chrome the game will let you, you're still a lightweight compared to the average Maelstrom goon, so you're not exactly pushing the envelope here. You're not chromed to the gills like Smasher is, and you can't buy any top grade military tech, it's all legal over the counter stuff.

In the Pen and Paper game, you could get and install much heavier hardware, like shoulder-mounted rocket pods and such, like Smasher has actually, and the humanity stat mainly existed just to ensure you coulden't buy and install all of these goodies.

What David got his hands on was not regular over the counter stuff..

You absolutely can and do buy military cyberware as V. It shouldn't be available over-the-counter but it is, for gameplay's sake. Here is the description of the "Falcon" Sandevistan for example;

"Manufactured by Militech, the "Falcon" is hands down the best and most advanced Sandevistan model out there. Previously used only by elite Militech soldiers, its now available to the average consumer. The nickname is no accident - the peregrine falcon was once one of the fastest animals in the world, as this implant is among cyberware."

There is no other explanation for V being able to assault Arasaka Tower AND beat Smasher, than them packing serious chrome. I guess we're supposed to see it like Morgan Blackhand where even though it doesn't look as extreme, it gets the job done.

[D0P3F15H]

SnuffSaid の投稿を引用：

Grobut の投稿を引用：

This is a pretty important point. ^

Even if you buy and install all the chrome the game will let you, you're still a lightweight compared to the average Maelstrom goon, so you're not exactly pushing the envelope here. You're not chromed to the gills like Smasher is, and you can't buy any top grade military tech, it's all legal over the counter stuff.

In the Pen and Paper game, you could get and install much heavier hardware, like shoulder-mounted rocket pods and such, like Smasher has actually, and the humanity stat mainly existed just to ensure you coulden't buy and install all of these goodies.

What David got his hands on was not regular over the counter stuff..

You absolutely can and do buy military cyberware as V. It shouldn't be available over-the-counter but it is, for gameplay's sake. Here is the description of the "Falcon" Sandevistan for example;

"Manufactured by Militech, the "Falcon" is hands down the best and most advanced Sandevistan model out there. Previously used only by elite Militech soldiers, its now available to the average consumer. The nickname is no accident - the peregrine falcon was once one of the fastest animals in the world, as this implant is among cyberware."

There is no other explanation for V being able to assault Arasaka Tower AND beat Smasher, than them packing serious chrome. I guess we're supposed to see it like Morgan Blackhand where even though it doesn't look as extreme, it gets the job done.

You can be fully-modded with cyberware and still go scuba-diving like it ain't a thing but in GITS it's directly commented on that the character who goes scuba-diving is almost crazy for doing so since their cyberware makes them so heavy they risk falling to be bottom and never being able to get back up.

One component doesn't make the body

[Sea Base]

D0P3F15H の投稿を引用：

SnuffSaid の投稿を引用：

You absolutely can and do buy military cyberware as V. It shouldn't be available over-the-counter but it is, for gameplay's sake. Here is the description of the "Falcon" Sandevistan for example;

"Manufactured by Militech, the "Falcon" is hands down the best and most advanced Sandevistan model out there. Previously used only by elite Militech soldiers, its now available to the average consumer. The nickname is no accident - the peregrine falcon was once one of the fastest animals in the world, as this implant is among cyberware."

There is no other explanation for V being able to assault Arasaka Tower AND beat Smasher, than them packing serious chrome. I guess we're supposed to see it like Morgan Blackhand where even though it doesn't look as extreme, it gets the job done.

You can be fully-modded with cyberware and still go scuba-diving like it ain't a thing but in GITS it's directly commented on that the character who goes scuba-diving is almost crazy for doing so since their cyberware makes them so heavy they risk falling to be bottom and never being able to get back up.

One component doesn't make the body

In GitS, it's not even cyberware when they are talking about the major or Batu, they are full body and brain mechanical, the whole package, rather than a collection of cyber upgrades. They are even less human than Adam Smasher, who still has his OG brain locked away in that shell.

Which is one of the distinctions they talk about in GitS, full body cyborgs (mechanical brains included) vs having any number of augments.

That might be a consideration for Adam being so cyberised but not psycho, his body is a complete package system built by one corp bespoke for him. Infering from this that his nerve input is less chaotic with cross component traffic as it's unified, resulting in less neurological stress which would add to going psycho if it were there.

[D0P3F15H]

Sea Base の投稿を引用：

D0P3F15H の投稿を引用：

You can be fully-modded with cyberware and still go scuba-diving like it ain't a thing but in GITS it's directly commented on that the character who goes scuba-diving is almost crazy for doing so since their cyberware makes them so heavy they risk falling to be bottom and never being able to get back up.

One component doesn't make the body

In GitS, it's not even cyberware when they are talking about the major or Batu, they are full body and brain mechanical, the whole package, rather than a collection of cyber upgrades. They are even less human than Adam Smasher, who still has his OG brain locked away in that shell.

Which is one of the distinctions they talk about in GitS, full body cyborgs (mechanical brains included) vs having any number of augments.

Hang on, I wrote out a whole thing here, but what's the question again?

What are we arguing exactly? V doesn't get psychoed because they're not teched up enough, but the cyberware should be enough to do so?

Seems that may be a design choice

[Bahamut_A6M5]

Short answer is V isn't affected by cyberpsychosis because CP2077 hasn't a Humanity stat so a normalized system for consistently determining how and who is affected by cyberpsychosis can't exist. Ergo, V can't go cyberpsycho because someone at CDPR arbitrarily decided that (plot armor).

[D0P3F15H]

Bahamut_A6M5 の投稿を引用：

Short answer is V isn't affected by cyberpsychosis because CP2077 hasn't a Humanity stat so a normalized system for consistently determining how and who is affected by cyberpsychosis can't exist. Ergo, V can't go cyberpsycho because someone at CDPR arbitrarily decided that (plot armor).

-chefs kiss-
Gold Star
Some might say CP2077 is a single-player-focused story-driven power fantasy, and adding the risk to go psycho might get in the way of that.

[SnuffSaid]

Bahamut_A6M5 の投稿を引用：

Short answer is V isn't affected by cyberpsychosis because CP2077 hasn't a Humanity stat so a normalized system for consistently determining how and who is affected by cyberpsychosis can't exist. Ergo, V can't go cyberpsycho because someone at CDPR arbitrarily decided that (plot armor).

Aren't most of the humanity losses determined by dice roll?

Maybe V rolled a lot of 1's.

[Sea Base]

D0P3F15H の投稿を引用：

Sea Base の投稿を引用：

In GitS, it's not even cyberware when they are talking about the major or Batu, they are full body and brain mechanical, the whole package, rather than a collection of cyber upgrades. They are even less human than Adam Smasher, who still has his OG brain locked away in that shell.

Which is one of the distinctions they talk about in GitS, full body cyborgs (mechanical brains included) vs having any number of augments.

Hang on, I wrote out a whole thing here, but what's the question again?

What are we arguing exactly? V doesn't get psychoed because they're not teched up enough, but the cyberware should be enough to do so?

Seems that may be a design choice

Not an argument, just adding to your point :)

[D0P3F15H]

SnuffSaid の投稿を引用：

Bahamut_A6M5 の投稿を引用：

Short answer is V isn't affected by cyberpsychosis because CP2077 hasn't a Humanity stat so a normalized system for consistently determining how and who is affected by cyberpsychosis can't exist. Ergo, V can't go cyberpsycho because someone at CDPR arbitrarily decided that (plot armor).

Aren't most of the humanity losses determined by dice roll?

Maybe V rolled a lot of 1's.

Hey the Relic's already nebulous enough to revive V from being shot in the head so let's say it also prevent them from going psycho too?

[SnuffSaid]

D0P3F15H の投稿を引用：

SnuffSaid の投稿を引用：

Aren't most of the humanity losses determined by dice roll?

Maybe V rolled a lot of 1's.

Hey the Relic's already nebulous enough to revive V from being shot in the head so let's say it also prevent them from going psycho too?

I mentioned in another thread that this was pretty much already my head canon explanation. The Relic's nanobots repair and overwrite the brain, so they also inadvertently fix any brain damage from cyberpsychosis in the process. That explanation actually feels better to me than the one Mike Pondsmith went with, of Johnny just being so sassy that he buffers all the crazy with his rebel peptalks. But it's his Universe.