The Relic is an example of ludonarrative dissonance

[Doom MD]

“Omg my mind is being taken over! I don’t have much time!” Is what the narrative is trying to convey. By contrast, the gameplay gives you absolutely no time limits and aggressively tried to distract you. If my brain were being eaten away by a mind virus I would probably not distract myself corralling a bunch of rogue AI cabs.

[Vellari]

Hmm, why yes it is.

You know what else in computer games is "ludonarrative dissonance". Pretty much everything, most common being "I'm the hero of <insert realm/city/whatever>, but I also killed 10000 monsters/enemies/people getting there"

[skOsH♥]

If the game actually had a time limit, how many people would play it?

That's like having a permanent arrest feature in Grand Theft Auto, whereby if you escape too many wanted levels, then when the police finally catch you, you can't play the game anymore.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Vellari:

Hmm, why yes it is.

You know what else in computer games is "ludonarrative dissonance". Pretty much everything, most common being "I'm the hero of <insert realm/city/whatever>, but I also killed 10000 monsters/enemies/people getting there"

Originally posted by d¢:

If the game actually had a time limit, how many people would play it?

That's like having a permanent arrest feature in Grand Theft Auto, whereby if you escape too many wanted levels, then when the police finally catch you, you can't play the game anymore.

Right? I like realism and immersion as much as the next guy, but this "ludonarrative dissonance" I keep seeing in various games is just nonsensical. It's like people have never heard of suspension of disbelief, or simply sacrificing a bit of realism for the sake of gameplay.

[Northwold]

I would be more troubled by the fact that almost every game allows you to carry the entire warehouse stock of a furniture store, weapons merchant, restaurant and clothier in your pocket (or, indeed, g-string), a point memorably spoofed as long ago as the Monkey Island games.

"Ludonarrative dissonance", by the way, is a term that was coined to make its author sound important, just like "cinemanarrative dissonance" before it. We know what narrative dissonance is. We know we are talking about a film, a game, or whatever. So instead of making people sound intellectual it just ends up sounding absurd.

[Doom MD]

Originally posted by d¢:

If the game actually had a time limit, how many people would play it?

That's like having a permanent arrest feature in Grand Theft Auto, whereby if you escape too many wanted levels, then when the police finally catch you, you can't play the game anymore.

The original fallout had it and it is one of the best games ever made from both a gameplay and narrative perspective. The problem is the story keeps telling V how little time he has, yet the gameplay is 100% diametrically opposed to this. To add further, there are many quests where the giver will say “let’s meet up tonight to take care of it” or whatever and you the player are free to mess about for weeks on end before showing up. The entire point is, why are you going to keep hammering the player about time when it doesn’t matter? The player’s response is to have their immersion reduced and to filter everything in terms of “gaminess”. Players become skeptical of what the game is presenting them when their suspension of disbelief is challenged.

[Bishop-Six]

Fallout 4:
"omg omg where is my son???"

*starts building settlements for the next 12 months*

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Northwold:

I would be more troubled by the fact that almost every game allows you to carry the entire warehouse stock of a furniture store, weapons merchant, restaurant and clothier in your pocket (or, indeed, g-string), a point memorably spoofed as long ago as the Monkey Island games.

"Ludonarrative dissonance", by the way, is a term that was coined to make its author sound important, just like "cinemanarrative dissonance" before it. We know what narrative dissonance is. We know we are talking about a film, a game, or whatever. So instead of making people sound intellectual it just ends up sounding absurd.

Too true, on both counts. It's like calling water "dihydrogen monoxide" or people who write out 2077 in Roman numerals. It doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look pretentious.

[Vellari]

Originally posted by Doom MD:

Originally posted by d¢:

If the game actually had a time limit, how many people would play it?

That's like having a permanent arrest feature in Grand Theft Auto, whereby if you escape too many wanted levels, then when the police finally catch you, you can't play the game anymore.

The original fallout had it and it is one of the best games ever made from both a gameplay and narrative perspective. The problem is the story keeps telling V how little time he has, yet the gameplay is 100% diametrically opposed to this. To add further, there are many quests where the giver will say “let’s meet up tonight to take care of it” or whatever and you the player are free to mess about for weeks on end before showing up. The entire point is, why are you going to keep hammering the player about time when it doesn’t matter? The player’s response is to have their immersion reduced and to filter everything in terms of “gaminess”. Players become skeptical of what the game is presenting them when their suspension of disbelief is challenged.

Yup, that's the big problem with story driven games in an open world setting. Sense of urgency vs player agency. At best I've seen games that have individual (side) quests time out, but would be brutal to fail the entire game for "I was just exploring" reasons.

Ps. Personally, I'm mostly fine with this personally.

[Northwold]

Originally posted by O.Gefr.Löring.363VD:

Fallout 4:
"omg omg where is my son???"

*starts building settlements for the next 12 months*

Or indeed Witcher 3 "I must find Ciri she is in grave danger". "Hmm, actually I want to pick flowers."

[Doom MD]

Originally posted by O.Gefr.Löring.363VD:

Fallout 4:
"omg omg where is my son???"

*starts building settlements for the next 12 months*

100% correct. I absolutely despised F4 for this.

[Doom MD]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by Northwold:

I would be more troubled by the fact that almost every game allows you to carry the entire warehouse stock of a furniture store, weapons merchant, restaurant and clothier in your pocket (or, indeed, g-string), a point memorably spoofed as long ago as the Monkey Island games.

"Ludonarrative dissonance", by the way, is a term that was coined to make its author sound important, just like "cinemanarrative dissonance" before it. We know what narrative dissonance is. We know we are talking about a film, a game, or whatever. So instead of making people sound intellectual it just ends up sounding absurd.

Too true, on both counts. It's like calling water "dihydrogen monoxide" or people who write out 2077 in Roman numerals. It doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look pretentious.

It got you to click, though, didn’t it?

[Dracon]

Haha side quests go Brrrrrrrrrrr

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Doom MD:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Too true, on both counts. It's like calling water "dihydrogen monoxide" or people who write out 2077 in Roman numerals. It doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look pretentious.

It got you to click, though, didn’t it?

If all you wanted was attention (i.e.: for people to click here), you could've tried doing something constructive instead. At least then, the responses would've been mostly positive.

[Weaver]

And? Have you never played a video game before?

In Fallout 4 someone kidnapped your baby and killed your spouse and you can still screw around for years completely ignoring the game plot.
Skyrim end of the world, Dragons, but you can screw around for years completely ignoring the game plot.
All the Farcry games ever.
And the list goes on for games that have the exact same "very short time window in narrative, forever in game play" dissonance going on.

And then there is about every game ever where you as the main character/characters can take any number of injuries and just slap a bandage on it, take an air hypo, and be just fine, but every other character during gameplay, and you during cut scenes can be knocked out or killed very easily, Jackie being the prime example in Cyberpunk. V can take an number of bullets to the face and shrug it off with a medical item or just slow healing, meanwhile Jackie takes a hit and bleeds out?

Absolutely nothing about this is new, or unusual, it's all part of video games, and entertainment in general, suspension of disbelief, and not thinking too hard about things.

[Doom MD]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by Doom MD:

It got you to click, though, didn’t it?

If all you wanted was attention (i.e.: for people to click here), you could've tried doing something constructive instead. At least then, the responses would've been mostly positive.

How is this thread not constructive? I’m finding it a rather enjoyable higher level discussion. I don’t get the impression there is much negativity about the whole thing even from folks who disagree.

PS not only did this thread get you to click . It also got you to respond.