SO MANY HEADSHOTS AND NO DEAD????

[The Former]

I'm tired of having to reply to these complaints one by one, so here. He's a thread. Very first trailer.

https://youtu.be/DvVjkqB3LH0?t=17

Look at it. Look at it and tell me why you think your level 4 character is having trouble killing Maelstrom gangers with headshots.

Bullets aren't deadly because they're bullets and "guns are badass lolol". Bullets are deadly because they rupture arteries and puncture organs. When those arteries are gone, flesh replaced by metal limbs... When those organs are artificial and are protected by a layer of sub-dermal armor... When the brain is encased in titanium... No. Bullets are not going to be that effective on the regular.

[The Former]

Publicado originalmente por Jixijenga:

I'll make this very simple for you.

Publicado originalmente por Knight-Errant:

This is what I stated. I stated nothing about the quality of the gameplay.

This is what you claim.

My entire post was purely centered around the complaint that headshots weren't instakilling enemies. People were saying that was stupid.

This is what you said.

You claim that it's not about gameplay, then proceed to respond to people talking about gameplay, criticizing the gameplay, and discussing with each other the issues they have about the gameplay with a post that can be summed up as a flippant and arrogant dismissal. Then, when someone responds to what you're doing with a straightforward response, you claim it's all in bad faith.

Either you made a blunder and did not intend for your thread to come off as it did or you're doubling down on misbehavior. No matter what your angle is I'm not actually interested in repeating everything I've said multiple times until one of us gets bored or some hot-head comes along and forces the mods to close this thread.

You might want to know that I teach English for a living before you attempt to obfuscate and misdirect any further. This isn't going to work on me. I see exactly what your aim is and I'm always going to pull you back to basics:

I am discussing the notion of bullet sponges. Not as a gameplay mechanic, but on the grounds that people think it's "stupid". That obviously if you shoot an enemy in the head they should die instantly, because that's how it logically works. I am not addressing whether this is good or bad for gameplay. I am addressing why it is logical, in this universe, to assume a headshot will not necessarily instakill.

Does this technically touch on gameplay? Obviously. We're talking about a game, anything I say will touch on gameplay. But my argument is not centered around gameplay. It never was, and no amount of careful framing and adjusting context will change that.

You seem to be suggesting, on the other hand, that the gameplay is boring because of the bullet sponge mechanic. Because there are plenty of games featuring bosses with high HP that are lauded for their combat. Dark Souls is literally, "Here's a boss with a ton of HP, learn the exact patterns to fight him with and repeat them until victory is achieved," and people love it. It's absolutely possible to have fun combat without enforcing one-hit-kill rules.

So you see, even if this were what you thought it was, your argument is in bad faith. You are distorting my topic of discussion, then deliberately ignoring the above truth, all in an effort to make a stranger on the internet look foolish. If you wish to debate me on the actual topic at hand, I invite you, but I have a feeling the long post you largely ignored won that debate quite handily. This, I would wager, is most likely why you opted to start twisting the discussion after that point.

[Dovahbear]

Related to the topic, I just want to point out that the Overwatch sniper rifle exists.

If you want to smoke gonks with one head shot, accept no substitute.

[The Former]

Publicado originalmente por Dovahbear:

Related to the topic, I just want to point out that the Overwatch sniper rifle exists.

If you want to smoke gonks with one head shot, accept no substitute.

What, Widowmaker's? Or a sniper rifle literally named "Overwatch"?

[Lovecraft's Cat]

This notion is a bit half baked. Yes our bullets would be not as effective against advanced armor. So what would happen is.... drumrolls.... we'd phase out the obsolete bullets for advanced ones.

So. Point is invalid.

[1MantisPhoenix]

P.s. I found a sniper in the beginning the double headshotted the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and it had a Gauss Rifle look ;) [got the achievement hee-hee] :D

[Julymorning]

Publicado originalmente por {Twitch.TV/1MantisPhoenix/∞:

Publicado originalmente por Bozz 💀:

mate some dudes in the game have titan skeletons and artificial organs etc... I mean it makes sense that you can't headshot kill them if they have metal plate augumentations in the head .... try at least to read the lore before complaining like a baby

Tell that to the noobs, Who:
A: cannot read an enemie's weakness
B: Cannot read the headshot multiplier ON THEIR GUNS IN THEIR INVENTORY:
C: Just can't make sense of WHY Crafting exists?
D: People that take highest DPS weapons but are SELLING their crap guns instead of scrapping + upgrading their best weapons.

I bet you my level 12 blunt-melee character was dealing 40x What these complaining noobs SHOOT:

Exactly this. I am level 15 now and I have good guns, mostly rare, and I upgrade them constantly and if I get better weapons I dismantle the previous ones and upgrade new ones. Especially, so far, I haven't encountered a single trash mob that I can't one shot with my sniper rifle. Only bosses take more damage. With my assault rifle or pistol it only takes 3-4 headshots to kill a guy. If you have trash guns with bad scopes and mods obviously you aren't going to be rewarded. This is an RPG not Doom Eternal.

[The Former]

Publicado originalmente por Scyth:

This notion is a bit half baked. Yes our bullets would be not as effective against advanced armor. So what would happen is.... drumrolls.... we'd phase out the obsolete bullets for advanced ones.

So. Point is invalid.

Not so, the universe has baked this in. Extensive reading over the Chromebooks and such has led me to realize Pondsmith had an arms race going back-and-forth in his head all the while. Weapons and armor are two sides of the same coin. When one advances, so does the other. Such has it been, such will it be.

[Rinky]

This is an RPG element. Same with Destiny and Division. It is not because of lore, just because devs decide to make the game in old RPG style. If you actually think that devs made enemies being able to tank multiple headshots and magazines of bodyshots, because of lore and some kind of metal plates or aDvAnCeD aRmOr, you are a moron thinking that devs are as stupid as you.

Objectively this mechanic is part of genre, so can't complain. Subjectively, IMO, this ♥♥♥♥ sucks. I would much more prefer realistic game without healthbars and DPS ♥♥♥♥

[1MantisPhoenix]

Publicado originalmente por Knight-Errant:

Publicado originalmente por Scyth:

This notion is a bit half baked. Yes our bullets would be not as effective against advanced armor. So what would happen is.... drumrolls.... we'd phase out the obsolete bullets for advanced ones.

So. Point is invalid.

Not so, the universe has baked this in. Extensive reading over the Chromebooks and such has led me to realize Pondsmith had an arms race going back-and-forth in his head all the while. Weapons and armor are two sides of the same coin. When one advances, so does the other. Such has it been, such will it be.

ie. if you're not upgrading the newest weapons you're picking up,
and likewise with clothing, upgrading the armour to withstand the guns you're most likely using, you won't be dealing, or resisting what you are currently capable of.

[Jixijenga]

Publicado originalmente por Knight-Errant:

You might want to know that I teach English for a living before you attempt to obfuscate and misdirect any further.

You might want to know that I design intercontinental delivery systems for a living before you attempt to use your irrelevant profession to fabricate a sense of authority in a discussion on the internet.

I am discussing the notion of bullet sponges. Not as a gameplay mechanic, but on the grounds that people think it's "stupid".

Yes, when people dislike something they will tend to call it all sorts of mean things.

That obviously if you shoot an enemy in the head they should die instantly, because that's how it logically works.

Yes, logically.

I am not addressing whether this is good or bad for gameplay. I am addressing why it is logical, in this universe, to assume a headshot will not necessarily instakill.

I already said I have no interest in repeating myself, but I will make an exception. We have established that people are, clearly, upset about something. They don't like it. They're angry at it. They're talking about how mad they are at it. Then you come along and tell them that they're wrong because common sense is dumb and here's why they're all idiots for being upset in the first place. Take your logic somewhere else, simple gamers!

Does this technically touch on gameplay? Obviously.

I'll stop here. I guess that answers the question about how intentional your misbehavior was when you started this thread.

I'm finished with you.

[shoopy]

Publicado originalmente por Scyth:

This notion is a bit half baked. Yes our bullets would be not as effective against advanced armor. So what would happen is.... drumrolls.... we'd phase out the obsolete bullets for advanced ones.

So. Point is invalid.

Advanced bullets are basically what Tech weapons are. With my tech gun, not only can I kill dudes in one headshot or a couple body shots, I can do it through walls.

[The Former]

Publicado originalmente por RINKAHSHIKACHI:

This is an RPG element. Same with Destiny and Division. It is not because of lore, just because devs decide to make the game in old RPG style. If you actually think that devs made enemies being able to tank multiple headshots, because of lore and some kind of metal plates, you are a moron thinking that devs are as stupid as you.

Objectively this mechanic is part of genre, so can't complain. Subjectively, IMO, this ♥♥♥♥ sucks. I would much more prefer realistic game without healthbars and DPS ♥♥♥♥

I'm going to cut through all the fat of this post and address the actual meat.

This game is based on a tabletop RPG. In that tabletop RPG, people can tank a great deal of damage with the right cyberware. Conversely, the right weapons and skills can largely negate good defensive cyberware.

All that carries over into this game. If your gear and perks are up to snuff, you can pretty effectively dish out the damage you expect. If your enemies' means outclass yours, on the other hand, you're in for a long fight.

I don't mean to suggest the trailer is showing bullet sponging in action. What I mean to suggest is that the trailer is proof that the defensive capabilities of cyberware were in the devs' minds from the start. I can't say for sure if not having that precedent would change the mechanic they opted for, but I imagine it would've had some impact. I think it's at least safe to say they felt comfortable with the method they chose because they knew there was lore precedent.

[Lovecraft's Cat]

Publicado originalmente por Knight-Errant:

Publicado originalmente por Scyth:

This notion is a bit half baked. Yes our bullets would be not as effective against advanced armor. So what would happen is.... drumrolls.... we'd phase out the obsolete bullets for advanced ones.

So. Point is invalid.

Not so, the universe has baked this in. Extensive reading over the Chromebooks and such has led me to realize Pondsmith had an arms race going back-and-forth in his head all the while. Weapons and armor are two sides of the same coin. When one advances, so does the other. Such has it been, such will it be.

OK admittedly I don't know the lore, but this seems like handwaving.

In reality, we already have HEIAP shells miniaturized to 50cal. It's quite literally impossible to stop such a projectile with a thin layer of armor. So I'm sorry to say, the battle between "weapons vs armor" is over, at least on the personnel level, but come to think of it also on the materiel level.

[Rinky]

Publicado originalmente por Knight-Errant:

I'm tired of having to reply to these complaints one by one, so here. He's a thread. Very first trailer.

https://youtu.be/DvVjkqB3LH0?t=17

Look at it. Look at it and tell me why you think your level 4 character is having trouble killing Maelstrom gangers with headshots.

Bullets aren't deadly because they're bullets and "guns are badass lolol". Bullets are deadly because they rupture arteries and puncture organs. When those arteries are gone, flesh replaced by metal limbs... When those organs are artificial and are protected by a layer of sub-dermal armor... When the brain is encased in titanium... No. Bullets are not going to be that effective on the regular.

imagine claiming that any low-tier pawn-like gang member from dupster is superior to you not because you use low-rarity low-level weapon in an old-fashioned RPG game, but because aCcOrDiNg To LoRe he has every organ replaced, everything made out of metal and brain encased in titanium, when he is clearly almost natural, lucky if he has a prosthetic arm or something and sometimes doesnt have enough money to eat food, thats why he bashes vending machines and threatens random ppl from streets.

You sir, are an idiot.

[Gon Freecss]

High damage weapons, with high headshot multiplier and critical heads pops easily.

Its clearly meant to be this way. Same as most rpgs are usually with swords and damage multipliers buffs debuffs etc.