Casual controls with no penalty = no buy

[svoulzor]

https://i.imgur.com/YucQQFr.jpeg

[Tyrone Biggums]

just say your bad at fighting games its ok

[Plookie Duke]

huh? im confused....

[SaulD]

Originally posted by Bub Rub:

huh? im confused....:poemg:

Just to provide some context, Cygames confirmed that there won't be any functional differences anymore between Simple inputs and Technical/Motion inputs in Rising. In GBVS Vanilla, specials launched with a simple input came at the cost of a longer cooldown and less damage, or some other altered properties (less hits, shorter range, etc.).

If both control schemes are equally efficient it means that Simple inputs can do everything Technical inputs can do but better since they are easier to pull off and more reliable than motion inputs.

Moreover it removes an additional layer of depth from the game. In vanilla, Technical inputs made your specials stronger, to the point where it’s the default way to perform specials, but it also had its drawbacks that made Simple inputs appealing and useful in their own way.

Once you get into mid- and high-level play in GBVS, you understand the need to use both Simple and Technical inputs, and it’s this decision making that adds depth.

In Rising, however, the added strengths of Technical inputs are gone, and so too is the meaningful decision to use it by extension, so we’re left wondering why the Technical input is even present in the first place since the Simple input is easier, faster, and more reliable?

[Evan]

After 200 hours of GB VS i strongly believe that making simple and tech inputs the same is a good thing. It will make easier to learn a new character, so you don't need to keep this in mind.

It's kinda annoying to remember, since each character suffer differently from tech <-> simple inputs difference. It's not a universal thing in terms of longer CD or less damage and each one need to be checked individually. As for the overall gameplay, that doesn't matter for anything. If new players will have easier time - isn't that a good thing then? They still can't do a thing against veteran players, who lay frametraps, block 99% stuff and punish each window available.

TL;DR This will not change anything at middle or high level of play.

As for the control scheme it's the same as choosing a controller, keyboard or an arcade stick. People are free to use with what they are comfortable.

[Shizuma]

This is an interesting point. I've been surprised and confused about that choice at first when I've heard about it earlier this week. But the more I think about it, the less of a problem it seems to be.

GBVS "technical" inputs are already not that technical, quoting Fu ku ha ra here : "for the veteran player, you could say accurate inputs have become second nature". This is absolutely true, especially for qcf inputs. DP inputs are debatable, because having it on one button makes it more mash friendly, but that's it.

We're not talking about KOF pretzel inputs here, we're talking about GBVS inputs, which were already easy and pretty lenient. So I don't really see any downside to that choice in a game like GBVS.

EDIT: I had to edit Fu ku ha ra's name because steam consider it as an insult...

[Zeus]

Originally posted by Evan:

After 200 hours of GB VS i strongly believe that making simple and tech inputs the same is a good thing. It will make easier to learn a new character, so you don't need to keep this in mind.

It's kinda annoying to remember, since each character suffer differently from tech <-> simple inputs difference. It's not a universal thing in terms of longer CD or less damage and each one need to be checked individually. As for the overall gameplay, that doesn't matter for anything. If new players will have easier time - isn't that a good thing then? They still can't do a thing against veteran players, who lay frametraps, block 99% stuff and punish each window available.

TL;DR This will not change anything at middle or high level of play.

As for the control scheme it's the same as choosing a controller, keyboard or an arcade stick. People are free to use with what they are comfortable.

idk man im just used to the regular inputs i heckin love doing quarter circles but the simple inputs have one button specials so it makes it easier to hit confirm stuff and with charge characters you dont even have to charge you can just do the special. theres other stuff but my take is that simple inputs are very strong and i would be shooting myself in the foot not to use it. but i dont want to, but i kinda "have" to. why would i choose the harder control scheme when there is no longer a cooldown penalty for simple inputs. so i have to learn this game from now on with one button specials, and it feels so bad cause ive never played a fighter where with no motion inputs except tekken. its like the devs just screwed over existing fg players to welcome newer ones that might not even stick with the game. so basically now simple inputs is pretty much the meta so i gotta learn simple inputs.

[Shizuma]

Originally posted by Zeus:

idk man im just used to the regular inputs i heckin love doing quarter circles but the simple inputs have one button specials so it makes it easier to hit confirm stuff and with charge characters you dont even have to charge you can just do the special. theres other stuff but my take is that simple inputs are very strong and i would be shooting myself in the foot not to use it. but i dont want to, but i kinda "have" to. why would i choose the harder control scheme when there is no longer a cooldown penalty for simple inputs. so i have to learn this game from now on with one button specials, and it feels so bad cause ive never played a fighter where with no motion inputs except tekken. its like the devs just screwed over existing fg players to welcome newer ones that might not even stick with the game. so basically now simple inputs is pretty much the meta so i gotta learn simple inputs.

It's been 3 decades that I do qcf almost on a daily basis, and I honestly don't care using 6+P instead of 236+P.
The transition was quite easy in DNF, using only a button for supers. In this game, except for MS button inputs, you have easy control scheme. Every inputs with S button are only directionnal ones. There are many combos that are difficult to do however, with microdashes, kara jumps and some inputs that needs to be timed precision. These are the things making combos difficult, in a fighting game I rarely drop a combo because I miss qcf motion, but because of button input timing.

There is no reason in a game like GBVS, being already an easy one to keep technical inputs. It makes sense for me however in other fighting games to keep it, because this is part of the game, but it doesn't in GBVS, from which inputs are already the most basic ones.

[Zeus]

Originally posted by Shizuma:

Originally posted by Zeus:

idk man im just used to the regular inputs i heckin love doing quarter circles but the simple inputs have one button specials so it makes it easier to hit confirm stuff and with charge characters you dont even have to charge you can just do the special. theres other stuff but my take is that simple inputs are very strong and i would be shooting myself in the foot not to use it. but i dont want to, but i kinda "have" to. why would i choose the harder control scheme when there is no longer a cooldown penalty for simple inputs. so i have to learn this game from now on with one button specials, and it feels so bad cause ive never played a fighter where with no motion inputs except tekken. its like the devs just screwed over existing fg players to welcome newer ones that might not even stick with the game. so basically now simple inputs is pretty much the meta so i gotta learn simple inputs.

It's been 3 decades that I do qcf almost on a daily basis, and I honestly don't care using 6+P instead of 236+P.
The transition was quite easy in DNF, using only a button for supers. In this game, except for MS button inputs, you have easy control scheme. Every inputs with S button are only directionnal ones. There are many combos that are difficult to do however, with microdashes, kara jumps and some inputs that needs to be timed precision. These are the things making combos difficult, in a fighting game I rarely drop a combo because I miss qcf motion, but because of button input timing.

There is no reason in a game like GBVS, being already an easy one to keep technical inputs. It makes sense for me however in other fighting games to keep it, because this is part of the game, but it doesn't in GBVS, from which inputs are already the most basic ones.

ok i see what youre saying where how the game already isnt technically difficult so its not that big of a deal. i agree now that i think about it if a game like SF6 had this it would be much worse cause the execution requirements are a lot higher. but granblue is already easy executioanlly so might as well go all the way and use simple inputs. i think i will get used to it. i was even considering not playing the game at all but im glad i came to my senses i am looking forward to it

[天佑中共🐥the light]

I agree

[天佑中共🐥the light]

full damage one button deadly rave is stupid. 20% damage cut for casuls or riot

[Shizuma]

Originally posted by Zeus:

ok i see what youre saying where how the game already isnt technically difficult so its not that big of a deal. i agree now that i think about it if a game like SF6 had this it would be much worse cause the execution requirements are a lot higher. but granblue is already easy executioanlly so might as well go all the way and use simple inputs. i think i will get used to it. i was even considering not playing the game at all but im glad i came to my senses i am looking forward to it

Yes that was my point. It depends from one game to another and I don't feel this is such a big deal for Granblue to transition everything.

Makes me jump on this below :

Originally posted by 天佑中共🐥Revelation 22:22:

full damage one button deadly rave is stupid. 20% damage cut for casuls or riot

Exactly, I even dislike deadly rave input in KOFXIV and KOFXV, that move is designed to have multiple button inputs, it makes no sense to simplify it. I feel the same about Raging Storm, that is also meant to be difficult on purpose, not to have some instant RS on reaction.

[dash slamson]

on one side I agree that less decision making because there is no more need to choose between simple/motion is means that we lose some depth in the technical part of the game; on the other side, I would argue that it's not such a big deal compared with huge benefits of more accessibility, both in learning new char and in getting in the game for first timers.

most difficult part of fightings are not imputing specials anyway, its decisions and strategy mostly, so what's the big deal?

[Kairi5431]

Originally posted by dash slamson:

on one side I agree that less decision making because there is no more need to choose between simple/motion is means that we lose some depth in the technical part of the game; on the other side, I would argue that it's not such a big deal compared with huge benefits of more accessibility, both in learning new char and in getting in the game for first timers.

most difficult part of fightings are not imputing specials anyway, its decisions and strategy mostly, so what's the big deal?

With all due respect that heavily depends on the game being played and the character you are using, some of those inputs and combos in other games are absolutely killer on your hands.

Edit: also yeah I would prefer to still have a damage loss on simple input, I don't necessarily care if cool down is the same on both and I would say more like a 10% loss than the 20% someone else mentioned so new players won't get screwed as badly for using it

[Shizuma]

Originally posted by Kairi5431:

With all due respect that heavily depends on the game being played and the character you are using, some of those inputs and combos in other games are absolutely killer on your hands.

Totally agree, but that are no characters that requires some directional input motions in this game.

Originally posted by Kairi5431:

also yeah I would prefer to still have a damage loss on simple input,

Do you feel it will have some impact on intermediate/high level gameplay to have simple inputs on par with technical ones?

[Kairi5431]

Originally posted by Shizuma:

Do you feel it will have some impact on intermediate/high level gameplay to have simple inputs on par with technical ones?

Realistically I don't know about high level play to say anything on that matter, it just gets boring for me if I have 0 reason to ever do a motion input and I'm not gonna do a motion input if I know there is absolutely no benefit to doing it over a one button input. Fighting game developers these days are acting like new players can't handle a few motions, but realistically the only reason that is true is because they have this obsession with making super tight combos that even longer term fighting game players struggle to do without hurting their hands in majority of their games despite wanting to appeal to casuals. Unfortunately it feels like every genre is starting to slowly just turn into "how can we sell as many units as possible to the people who don't care" and it shows, games aren't necessarily bad because of it but you can see where the compromises happen to grab a few extra sales.