Why this game still using Delay Netcode when GGPO is now Free?

[King Hadu]

This netcode doesn't work at all, it is very horrible for any sort of long distance gaming it is completely outdated.

I will be happy to purchase this if GGPO is added

[Shaia_Tempari]

I passed on this game due to netcode. 100% would have bought otherwise, looks interesting.

[Prismatic Lollipop]

floofyfunster の投稿を引用：

I passed on this game due to netcode. 100% would have bought otherwise, looks interesting.

the netcode excuse is a very cheap one at this point.
i wish this many people complained about the actual bad ROLLBACK netcode SF V had, and kept having for many years, to this day.

you guys are just weird.

[PegAsi]

Prismatic Lollipop の投稿を引用：

floofyfunster の投稿を引用：

I passed on this game due to netcode. 100% would have bought otherwise, looks interesting.

the netcode excuse is a very cheap one at this point.
i wish this many people complained about the actual bad ROLLBACK netcode SF V had, and kept having for many years, to this day.

you guys are just weird.

what are you talking about? People have been complaining about SF:V for years. Not just the netcode, but every aspect of it. SF:V has been getting dunked on for years now. They are somewhat the main reason the community has gotten so vocal about netcode lately. Capcom was getting blown up over their netcode AGAIN recently due to the Altimor patch showing how lazy they are.

No its not a cheap point. We have so many games that have bad netcode simply because japanese devs and publishers don't care.

[Prismatic Lollipop]

PegAsi の投稿を引用：

Prismatic Lollipop の投稿を引用：

the netcode excuse is a very cheap one at this point.
i wish this many people complained about the actual bad ROLLBACK netcode SF V had, and kept having for many years, to this day.

you guys are just weird.

what are you talking about? People have been complaining about SF:V for years. Not just the netcode, but every aspect of it. SF:V has been getting dunked on for years now. They are somewhat the main reason the community has gotten so vocal about netcode lately. Capcom was getting blown up over their netcode AGAIN recently due to the Altimor patch showing how lazy they are.

No its not a cheap point. We have so many games that have bad netcode simply because japanese devs and publishers don't care.

tekken 7 and granblue have a very solid netcode, and both are based on delay.
i don't know where you live, but my experience in europe and even partially outside of europe have been positive so far.

[PegAsi]

Prismatic Lollipop の投稿を引用：

PegAsi の投稿を引用：

what are you talking about? People have been complaining about SF:V for years. Not just the netcode, but every aspect of it. SF:V has been getting dunked on for years now. They are somewhat the main reason the community has gotten so vocal about netcode lately. Capcom was getting blown up over their netcode AGAIN recently due to the Altimor patch showing how lazy they are.

No its not a cheap point. We have so many games that have bad netcode simply because japanese devs and publishers don't care.

tekken 7 and granblue have a very solid netcode, and both are based on delay.
i don't know where you live, but my experience in europe and even partially outside of europe have been positive so far.

they are both good under good circumstances when both players have good connections, but what happens when one side starts to fall behind?

That's what determines if a game's netcode is good or bad. Even guilty gear is okay under good situations. Low distance between players, both have good internet and etc, but when that isn't the case is the problem.

[Prismatic Lollipop]

PegAsi の投稿を引用：

Prismatic Lollipop の投稿を引用：

tekken 7 and granblue have a very solid netcode, and both are based on delay.
i don't know where you live, but my experience in europe and even partially outside of europe have been positive so far.

they are both good under good circumstances when both players have good connections, but what happens when one side starts to fall behind?

That's what determines if a game's netcode is good or bad. Even guilty gear is okay under good situations. Low distance between players, both have good internet and etc, but when that isn't the case is the problem.

if someone has really bad network or plays via wifi, then no netcode in the world can fix that for them.
don't expect magic.

[libraryshareaccinactive]

Prismatic Lollipop の投稿を引用：

PegAsi の投稿を引用：

they are both good under good circumstances when both players have good connections, but what happens when one side starts to fall behind?

That's what determines if a game's netcode is good or bad. Even guilty gear is okay under good situations. Low distance between players, both have good internet and etc, but when that isn't the case is the problem.

if someone has really bad network or plays via wifi, then no netcode in the world can fix that for them.
don't expect magic.

SFV's roll back netcode was proven to be poorly implemented wifi or not, like its an actual fact, no opinions on the matter. Good connections didn't matter either because of the ping check system they had in between rounds not being able to regulate itself properly. Even variable FPS drops affected this ping check system latency aside. MVCI is an example of good roll back netcode, it's the same one as the SFV but implemented correctly.


The fact that you're even saying you'd prefer delay over rollback in any case is enough reason to dismiss you, but I don't want to argue, so i'll let you go off, I won't read what you say next. (letting you know)

(frame delay settings exist for a reason if you have an issue with roll back) So there's literally no reason not to have it if it's proven better in most scenarios.

And if " cheaters " is your only argument then you are insane, cause the chances of encountering a cheater is extremely low. Most people don't even know how to use a lag switch or hack.

Even in Dota 2 and CSGO most people will not encounter a cheater, and if they do its once in a blue moon.

[Prismatic Lollipop]

today was a good day の投稿を引用：

Prismatic Lollipop の投稿を引用：

if someone has really bad network or plays via wifi, then no netcode in the world can fix that for them.
don't expect magic.

SFV's roll back netcode was proven to be poorly implemented wifi or not, like its an actual fact, no opinions on the matter. Good connections didn't matter either because of the ping check system they had in between rounds not being able to regulate itself properly. Even variable FPS drops affected this ping check system latency aside. MVCI is an example of good roll back netcode, it's the same one as the SFV but implemented correctly.


The fact that you're even saying you'd prefer delay over rollback in any case is enough reason to dismiss you, but I don't want to argue, so i'll let you go off, I won't read what you say next. (letting you know)

(frame delay settings exist for a reason if you have an issue with roll back) So there's literally no reason not to have it if it's proven better in most scenarios.

And if " cheaters " is your only argument then you are insane, cause the chances of encountering a cheater is extremely low.

what kind of tone is that supposed to be?
you call me names and drag my opinion through the dirt, just to say that YOUR opinion is the actually correct one, without a single reason or fact, and tell me not to reply because you won't read it anyway.

the only insane person here is you, especially with that first impression you gave me.
furthermore, delay based netcode can work as well as a rollback netcode, if both are implemented well.
end of story.

[PegAsi]

Prismatic Lollipop の投稿を引用：

PegAsi の投稿を引用：

they are both good under good circumstances when both players have good connections, but what happens when one side starts to fall behind?

That's what determines if a game's netcode is good or bad. Even guilty gear is okay under good situations. Low distance between players, both have good internet and etc, but when that isn't the case is the problem.

if someone has really bad network or plays via wifi, then no netcode in the world can fix that for them.
don't expect magic.

You'd be surprised . Yes if someone has wal mart internet , it will be bad, no doubt about it lol. But lets say you and me play, i assume we both have pretty good internet. If we play each other in this game, it might lag a whole lot. EU vs NA is not good. If we play each other in mk11 , Them fightin herds or skullgirls , it will more than likely be pretty playable.

[Prismatic Lollipop]

PegAsi の投稿を引用：

Prismatic Lollipop の投稿を引用：

if someone has really bad network or plays via wifi, then no netcode in the world can fix that for them.
don't expect magic.

You'd be surprised . Yes if someone has wal mart internet , it will be bad, no doubt about it lol. But lets say you and me play, i assume we both have pretty good internet. If we play each other in this game, it might lag a whole lot. EU vs NA is not good. If we play each other in mk11 , Them fightin herds or skullgirls , it will more than likely be pretty playable.

then again, i also fought people playing in the US over Tekken 7 and it was pretty solid, 2 frames of delay at max i think.
had to double check if they were actually from the US.
we can try granblue though, and see how it plays out.
i don't have MK11 on steam.

[DJukor]

Because arksistem does not care about having a healthy online community.
They want you to play the game then forget it ever existed so you can buy the next game.
Honestly they literally do make a new fighter of not 2 once a year.
Or a new revision of an existing one.

I am not gonna pretend they don't make amazing games but fact is they dont care about improving the netcode or adding cross play because they are convinced it will not help sales. They do however believe story mode and SP content is more important.

If granblue has cross play and good netcode it would last years.
But then many people would be less likely to buy the next GG.

[LL Cheese Z]

I've had plenty of good experiences w/ delay netcode. But I still dont buy them based on principle. FGC (particularly the JP-dev'd games for the most part) need to gtfo of the dark ages.

[Ignus]

floofyfunster の投稿を引用：

I passed on this game due to netcode. 100% would have bought otherwise, looks interesting.

Same here. I'm done with the ancient delay based netcode from japanese devs. I may buy their games on sale later. From now on, I'll consider them offline only.

It's ridiculous small indie games have better netcode than the big older japanese Fighting franchises. Skullgirls made a huge difference years ago. And today, that pony game Them's Fightin herds and even fkn' Fight of Animals play better online than SFV and GGXrd.

[Ignus]

On Topic:

GGPO is just a middleware, it's not a Rollback module or a Rollback plugin. You can't just slap GGPO to your game and suddenly have Rollback netcode.

GGPO will help with serialization and synchronization, but the developer still has to implement Rollback on their own.


Why Japanese developers, ArcSys specifically, use Delay based instead of Rollback?
Rather than the "not invented here rule" (debunked since they've been using Unreal engine for a while) or network infrastructure being faster in Japan. It seems it has to do with ArcSys development cycle.

I read somewhere about a publisher who worked with ArcSys, and described the way they develop a Fighting game. They said ArcSys will start creating the Fighting Game as if it was meant for Arcades, or local offline play only. ArcSys focus a lot on how the developing game should work, how it should follow the intended gameplay, how it feels and how it looks; all of this, in an offline environment. When they are happy with the first prototypes, then it's time to "add" the online capabilities. It's almost an afterthought.

Delay based netcode is a lot easier to implement to a nearly finished game than Rollback netcode. Although NetherRealm already demonstrated it's possible[arstechnica.com] to add Rollback later, it's not an easy task. Generally, if you're going to implement Rollback netcode in your game, it's better to start with it early in development.

So it seems ArcSys and most Japanese devs think quality netcode it's a second rate feature in their Fighting games. That's the way they work, that's the way they have done it for decades and they seem too stubborn to change. The idea is dismissed just by saying a "super programmer" would be required or that Rollback wouldn't really work with the game.[arstechnica.com]

That's why I decided to vote with my wallet. I'm not buying a Fighting game on release date that doesn't have a proper implementation of Rollback netcode. If I'm too interested in it, I may buy it later on a sale. I don't care how "dead" the game becomes then, because for me, a Fighting game without proper Rollback netcode, it's an offline game.

[Gamefreak]

Weeb trash の投稿を引用：

Japan doesn't care about netcode, because they literally have god tier internet that is easy to access unlike us.

They live on a small island so they don't have to deal with going against people thousands of miles away from them. Their internet is actually pretty bad depending on what part of the country you look at.