Rework Item Descriptions (Poisoners Robe in particular)

[RhodosGuard]

Look, I have no problem with the robe doing self-damage, but please add that to the description of the item.
It's either a bug, then please fix it, or it's a part of the items effect, then please add some description about it to the item.
I mean, I understand it's supposedly a representation of a curse, but curses are kinda wild, when there is no attunement.

[Haven]

I think it's the staff of crones that is doing the damage, not the robe?

[RhodosGuard]

Could be, but the item description for the Staff does also not mention the self damage, unless you count off-hand remarks in the flavor text.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Could be, but the item description for the Staff does also not mention the self damage, unless you count off-hand remarks in the flavor text.

If you're using Staff of Crones + Poisoner's Robe, then it's almost certainly the Staff that's doing damage to you, not the Robe.

But it's easy to test this - take the Robe off and hit something with the Ray, see what hsppens. Then unequip the Staff and put the Robe on, hit something with a different attack and see what happens.

I'm willing to bet it was the Staff that was hurting you all along.

[RhodosGuard]

Really isn't the point though, the point is, that we have to do this experiment at all, because it's not in the item descriptions.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Really isn't the point though, the point is, that we have to do this experiment at all, because it's not in the item descriptions.

I'm pretty sure it's in the Staff's description, unless they changed it recrntly, it has been since launch.

[RhodosGuard]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191784
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191811
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191798

These are the relevant Screenshots from my current playthrough, but I feel either really blind or stupid, because I cant see where the damage comes from.

And as I said, the only hints I see are in flavor text.

[Panic Fire]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191784
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191811
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191798

These are the relevant Screenshots from my current playthrough, but I feel either really blind or stupid, because I cant see where the damage comes from.

And as I said, the only hints I see are in flavor text.

Staff of Cronus lets you cast a 1st level spell infinitely Which would put it as an extremely powerful item. The downside is it also casts the spell at you when you use it. You can see exactly what its doing in the combat log.

Not every item will tell you that its cursed in some way. Though logical thought should be

1. This is an item owned by a HAG
2. This item is outrageously powerful for the level and area its found it. (casting a 1st level spell infinitely is part of a level 18 wizard feature)

Most people would proceed with prudence.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191784
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191811
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191798

These are the relevant Screenshots from my current playthrough, but I feel either really blind or stupid, because I cant see where the damage comes from.

And as I said, the only hints I see are in flavor text.

Staff of Cronus lets you cast a 1st level spell infinitely Which would put it as an extremely powerful item. The downside is it also casts the spell at you when you use it. You can see exactly what its doing in the combat log.

Not every item will tell you that its cursed in some way. Though logical thought should be

1. This is an item owned by a HAG
2. This item is outrageously powerful for the level and area its found it. (casting a 1st level spell infinitely is part of a level 18 wizard feature)

Most people would proceed with prudence.

But this is not a table session of DnD where Wizard goes "hippety hoppety Identify!" and can tell you "Yes this is cursed and does this and this"
This is a CRPG, where you are presented with an item having an effect, with a downside you are not educated about.

If at least Identify was in the game, or there was some hint besides me taking damage when I cast the spell, then I'd let it pass with the idea, that the game expects you to identify the item.

And the thing is, you can find some kind of logical explanation for any item to be cursed in some way, and yet it is only with the items that have an actual curse, where people use this excuse.

Armor found in a secret room in an ancient drow temple? It might be cursed!
Ring found in a Tower guarded by Arcane Turrets? It might be cursed!

You can buy 2 items from Ethel, yet those are not cursed.
Hags also need powerful items to use themselves, and you might not actually curse your own items.

And yes, it has a powerful effect. But you also fight one of the harder bosses of the game for it, where the encounter can have up to 9 hostiles in it (if you manage to sneak past the masks she summons them into the fight, and will always split into 5 on her second turn, making it a 9v4 in which 5 enemies can cast Hold Person)

Why can't the reward for a hard encounter be powerful, and if it has a downside, why can I not figure out that downside without experiencing it?

Again a CRPG is widely different than a tabletop.

And just for comparison: there is an amulet even earlier in the game that lets you cast "Speak with Dead" a level 3 spell an unlimited amount of times.
You find that in a tomb hidden in a temple to Jergal next to the Sarcophogus of a talking undead.
Yet that one is allowed to not be cursed?

Either adjust the item description, or allow me to figure out the side effects of an item before I accidently one-shot my wizard with his own crit.

[Panic Fire]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Staff of Cronus lets you cast a 1st level spell infinitely Which would put it as an extremely powerful item. The downside is it also casts the spell at you when you use it. You can see exactly what its doing in the combat log.

Not every item will tell you that its cursed in some way. Though logical thought should be

1. This is an item owned by a HAG
2. This item is outrageously powerful for the level and area its found it. (casting a 1st level spell infinitely is part of a level 18 wizard feature)

Most people would proceed with prudence.

But this is not a table session of DnD where Wizard goes "hippety hoppety Identify!" and can tell you "Yes this is cursed and does this and this"
This is a CRPG, where you are presented with an item having an effect, with a downside you are not educated about.

If at least Identify was in the game, or there was some hint besides me taking damage when I cast the spell, then I'd let it pass with the idea, that the game expects you to identify the item.

And the thing is, you can find some kind of logical explanation for any item to be cursed in some way, and yet it is only with the items that have an actual curse, where people use this excuse.

Armor found in a secret room in an ancient drow temple? It might be cursed!
Ring found in a Tower guarded by Arcane Turrets? It might be cursed!

You can buy 2 items from Ethel, yet those are not cursed.
Hags also need powerful items to use themselves, and you might not actually curse your own items.

And yes, it has a powerful effect. But you also fight one of the harder bosses of the game for it, where the encounter can have up to 9 hostiles in it (if you manage to sneak past the masks she summons them into the fight, and will always split into 5 on her second turn, making it a 9v4 in which 5 enemies can cast Hold Person)

Why can't the reward for a hard encounter be powerful, and if it has a downside, why can I not figure out that downside without experiencing it?

Again a CRPG is widely different than a tabletop.

And just for comparison: there is an amulet even earlier in the game that lets you cast "Speak with Dead" a level 3 spell an unlimited amount of times.
You find that in a tomb hidden in a temple to Jergal next to the Sarcophogus of a talking undead.
Yet that one is allowed to not be cursed?

Either adjust the item description, or allow me to figure out the side effects of an item before I accidently one-shot my wizard with his own crit.

Its not a powerful item. Its an item with an effect similar to a level 18 wizard. That's a Tier 4 ability. Nor is the punishment severe, its literally tanking one hit from a 1st level spell to figure out, or quite a few more if you are oblivious. And its also not hidden about this after the fact as its readily listed in the combat log when you use the item. Items with secret effects both good and bad has always been a staple of the CRPG.

The amulet lets you cast speak with the dead once per longrest, The spell itself lets you recast it an infinite number of times per longrest. And much like Speak with Animals, Speak with the Dead, and Detect Thoughts are spells that expand the conversation possibilities which is why Larian is giving them away basically so readily (because they want people to experience all the ♥♥♥♥ they put in the game) I agree though they shouldn't be that powerful.

However Ray of Sickness is a level 1 dmg spells. That you can cast as much as you want. This is a class feature of a level 18 Wizard.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

But this is not a table session of DnD where Wizard goes "hippety hoppety Identify!" and can tell you "Yes this is cursed and does this and this"
This is a CRPG, where you are presented with an item having an effect, with a downside you are not educated about.

If at least Identify was in the game, or there was some hint besides me taking damage when I cast the spell, then I'd let it pass with the idea, that the game expects you to identify the item.

And the thing is, you can find some kind of logical explanation for any item to be cursed in some way, and yet it is only with the items that have an actual curse, where people use this excuse.

Armor found in a secret room in an ancient drow temple? It might be cursed!
Ring found in a Tower guarded by Arcane Turrets? It might be cursed!

You can buy 2 items from Ethel, yet those are not cursed.
Hags also need powerful items to use themselves, and you might not actually curse your own items.

And yes, it has a powerful effect. But you also fight one of the harder bosses of the game for it, where the encounter can have up to 9 hostiles in it (if you manage to sneak past the masks she summons them into the fight, and will always split into 5 on her second turn, making it a 9v4 in which 5 enemies can cast Hold Person)

Why can't the reward for a hard encounter be powerful, and if it has a downside, why can I not figure out that downside without experiencing it?

Again a CRPG is widely different than a tabletop.

And just for comparison: there is an amulet even earlier in the game that lets you cast "Speak with Dead" a level 3 spell an unlimited amount of times.
You find that in a tomb hidden in a temple to Jergal next to the Sarcophogus of a talking undead.
Yet that one is allowed to not be cursed?

Either adjust the item description, or allow me to figure out the side effects of an item before I accidently one-shot my wizard with his own crit.

Its not a powerful item. Its an item with an effect similar to a level 18 wizard. That's a Tier 4 ability. Nor is the punishment severe, its literally tanking one hit from a 1st level spell to figure out, or quite a few more if you are oblivious. And its also not hidden about this after the fact as its readily listed in the combat log when you use the item. Items with secret effects both good and bad has always been a staple of the CRPG.

The amulet lets you cast speak with the dead once per longrest, The spell itself lets you recast it an infinite number of times per longrest. And much like Speak with Animals, Speak with the Dead, and Detect Thoughts are spells that expand the conversation possibilities which is why Larian is giving them away basically so readily (because they want people to experience all the ♥♥♥♥ they put in the game) I agree though they shouldn't be that powerful.

However Ray of Sickness is a level 1 dmg spells. That you can cast as much as you want. This is a class feature of a level 18 Wizard.

It's an effect similar to a level 18 Wizard feature but restricted to 1 Spell, and bound to an item that you might wanna switch out as more item options become available.
With how precious Spellslots are and how much Damage Ray of Sickness may do, especially to the squishiest of all classes, I'd rather not have to constantly chuck heal potions or cast heal spells on him.
I'd rather prepare the version that doesnt damage me and be able to only cast it up to 6 times every long rest (at level 4) than have a version of the spell that damages my squishiest backliner.

Especially with how long rests are literally 3 clicks away at any moment in time.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191784
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191811
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911191798

These are the relevant Screenshots from my current playthrough, but I feel either really blind or stupid, because I cant see where the damage comes from.

And as I said, the only hints I see are in flavor text.

Huh, looks like they changed the description on the Staff, because the tooltip used to tell you that you'd take damage.

Maybe because it's considered a 'cursed' item and they want you to deal with that.

[RhodosGuard]

The problem with the "It's cursed" argument is still, that there is no curse framework really.
Now that Clerics have remove Curse, I think it may be worth trying to cast it on the staff, but iirc using "Remove Curse" just removes attunement to the cursed item, which also doesnt exist yet in BG3 (putting the idea of "Remove Curse" being an available spell on Clerics in question (unless it also removes conditions like Hex or the literally curse spell))

Like, I understand there being "Hidden Effects" but if there is no framework for those effects to be put into perspective, then most people will see it as a bug.
If a new player encounters this item, he either assumes:

1. it is bugged
2. will be like "Oh it's cursed, so I need to find a way to uncurse it" only to be stumped when there is no reference to it being cursed, or curses on items in general in the game (yet)
3. Will be like "Ugh, no thanks" and use one of the other available staves. Like the One that improves Bless. Or the one that gives them 1d4 to Saving throws when they do not have armor.