Should we talk about shove? Grapple? Prone?

[Panic Fire]

Terms

Shove
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.

The target of your shove must be no more than one size larger than you, and it must be within your reach. You make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you win the contest, you either knock the target prone or push it 5 feet away from you.

Grappling

When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.

The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you, and it must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check, a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the grappled condition. The condition specifies the things that end it, and you can release the target whenever you like (no action required).

Escaping a Grapple. A grappled creature can use its action to escape. To do so, it must succeed on a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by your Strength (Athletics) check.

Moving a Grappled Creature. When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.

Prone
Combatants often find themselves lying on the ground, either because they are knocked down or because they throw themselves down. In the game, they are prone.

You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet of movement to stand up. You can't stand up if you don't have enough movement left or if your speed is 0.

To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation. Every foot of movement while crawling costs 1 extra foot. Crawling 1 foot in difficult terrain, therefore, costs 3 feet of movement.


A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.

Currently in the game Shove is a bonus action instead of an action. The reasoning behind this is of course Larian wanted characters to feel like they can do more things in combat so they gave everyone a bonus action ability to shove.

However Shove in BG3 is extremely powerful due to it being a bonus action, its utility (battlefield control and removing debuffs like sleep), its ability to be used offensively with gravity. I feel that bonus action shove is simply to powerful in the game, as well it is actually stealing the thunder of a lot of other things as well.

(Shield Master comes to mind, its supposed to get shove as a bonus action after an attack action is made during the turn)

What I would like to see is Shove to return to being an action that can replace an attack from your attack action. This would significantly nerf shove, so I would also like to see it be able to shove a creature prone as well.

Grapple also isn't in the game, when really it should be. We already have something similar to it with throwing enemies so I can see it being not that hard to add. It would synergies well with shove and team work in the game though of course would be situational at times.

Finally we should add the ability to go prone with our characters. This would allow more strategic choices to make as well slightly buff the Athlete feat (which I feel would still need a buff as well, maybe a maximum jumpheight or distance increase)

Weaponizing your bonus action is a very important thing in 5e. Some classes its very easy, while others it can be very difficult. This is also a form of balancing. Clerics get very powerful spell choices for there bonus action. Melee characters can choose to duel wield to weaponize it. That's of course my opinion.

Do you think we should unbonus action shove or is there a better solution? Or should we leave it be the way it is?

Should grapple and prone come in as player actions?

[dolby]

Well this kinds of problems occur on mutiple things in BG 3 the question is how you want to solve it do you want to stick to 5e or not. There are loads of thing one can do to make shove more interesting more in line with video format even 5e.
It was the same thing with backstab at the end they removed it sadly. Backstab had potential but they used the easy way to fix it instead of fixing jump and all other things that it effected...

If you want it to be more like 5e well then i guess the solution is to make it like it's in 5e. There is no technical reason that's preventing it... like with most changes they did..

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I like shove being a bonus action, as finding things to actually do with your bonus action can be difficult in 5e RAW.

However, I think the physics needs to be tweaked so that you can't send your shoved target 100's of meters away with a shove, that is kind of ridiculous.

I agree we should have the option to go prone at will - this can be useful for taking cover from ranged attacks, or otherwise hiding.

I'm not sure how they'd implement grapple, it may just be an issue of it being too difficult to animate and manage in a video game right now, but if it were possible, sure, why not.

[dolby]

Цитата допису Pan Darius Kairos:

I agree we should have the option to go prone at will - this can be useful for taking cover from ranged attacks, or otherwise hiding.

Geting the AI to do it well and make it look good is a different story. On paper it's fine with abit of testing and teaking sure why not. if they can make it look cool.

Цитата допису Pan Darius Kairos:

I'm not sure how they'd implement grapple, it may just be an issue of it being too difficult to animate and manage in a video game right now, but if it were possible, sure, why not.

Not the case at all, Wartales a TB game has similar animations that could work for grapple and for misses - parry and stuff and they are an indy dev. Characters just enter wrestle mode when you attack someone.

Something similar could be used here but you have to make extra animations so there is that...