Let's Talk Warlock Pact Boons

[KILLALLROBOTS!]

Or lack thereof! I figured as EA went on, Larian would improve on the classes they've released along with implementing new ones (esp Warlock) and add some of the other features missing from the core rules. Like Warlock Pact Boons! I get that Pact of the blade might need some retooling to work in a videogame, but pact of the tome seems like a no-brainer. I'm just sick of Pact of the Chain and the fact that it *really* just doesn't gel well with Wyll conceptually.

EDIT: For clarity, I didn't mean the subclasses for patrons, like Fiend and GOO, I meant the pact boon selected at level 3. in 5E, you have three options, Pact of Chain (find familiar + which is implemented), Pact of Blade and Pact of Tome (neither implemented)

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Ritual spells are barely worth it though.

[KOHb]

xposethedarkside eredeti hozzászólása:

In my opinion going with pact of the chain was the best choice if they were only going to give us one boon for EA.
Pact of the blade is weak without hexblade. You either have to split your points in a way to give you some strength, normally a dump stat for warlocks, or go dex/finesse weapon(yuck), or bank on something like finding some type of strength belt, and even then, it's never going to be as powerful as eldritch blast with agonizing blast, especially after level 5 when agonizing blast tags both beams. I mean maybe depending on if you find some really great weapon, but that weapon ain't in the game yet.

Tome might have some utility in the final game, it really depends on if ritual spells have any kind of use or function, right now they don't, so it would just be a bunch of cantrips that aren't eldritch blast.

Chain gives us invisible flying imp, and I don't need to comment on all the battlefield uses the imp has, we all already know, it's pretty good.

And what's wrong with dex/finesse? )

[WeenerTuck813]

Criminal Horse eredeti hozzászólása:

WeenerTuck813 eredeti hozzászólása:

Man you guys don’t like pact of the tome??

Raven Queen + Tome is the best

but it's not PHB

I didn’t say it was.

Just saying pact of the tome is good and def better than a Magic initiate feat

[KOHb]

WeenerTuck813 eredeti hozzászólása:

Just saying pact of the tome is good and def better than a Magic initiate feat

I think all pacts are almost useless in cRPG. While great in PnP


As for the tome:
Main feature — 3 cantrips in cRpgs worth a lot less than in PnP. And usually used only to make damage.
In this case warlock's EB would be better than any other dmg cantrip.
Ability to learn rituals... Well, I haven't noticed any in BG3 :D
A waste pact imo.

Best usage of chain — imp's invisibility. Same not that needed in cRPG, and 10 hp summon without damage will be useless most part of the game.

Pact of the blade
The only useful PHB pact could be blade after lvl 5. But any other weapon based class will outdamage it.
also EB could be much more effective :) Especially at current bugged state.
But maybe later there would be some great martial weapons that fit your warlock and be more effective than EB. But chances are low.

So, all pacts are crap in cRPG :D So there is no good/bad choice.

[GrandMajora]

Pan Darius Kairos eredeti hozzászólása:

Ritual spells are barely worth it though.

I don't know what all the ritual spells are. But I do know you can cast them without expending a spell slot. :-)

[Incunabulum]

Yojo0o eredeti hozzászólása:

It's really misleading when people refer to these as "pacts", because it implies that you're talking about the warlock subclasses.

The choice warlocks make at level 3 is called a "pact boon", and yes, I wish the others were implemented at this stage. It's very odd, for example, that Wyll can't choose Pact of the Blade. I'm not really sure how he's supposed to be the "Blade of the Frontier" otherwise.

'Pacts' and 'Patrons' are different.

Its the 'Patron' that is your subclass.

[xposethedarkside]

Criminal Horse eredeti hozzászólása:

xposethedarkside eredeti hozzászólása:

In my opinion going with pact of the chain was the best choice if they were only going to give us one boon for EA.
Pact of the blade is weak without hexblade. You either have to split your points in a way to give you some strength, normally a dump stat for warlocks, or go dex/finesse weapon(yuck), or bank on something like finding some type of strength belt, and even then, it's never going to be as powerful as eldritch blast with agonizing blast, especially after level 5 when agonizing blast tags both beams. I mean maybe depending on if you find some really great weapon, but that weapon ain't in the game yet.

Tome might have some utility in the final game, it really depends on if ritual spells have any kind of use or function, right now they don't, so it would just be a bunch of cantrips that aren't eldritch blast.

Chain gives us invisible flying imp, and I don't need to comment on all the battlefield uses the imp has, we all already know, it's pretty good.

And what's wrong with dex/finesse? )

Nothing's wrong with it. I just don't think warlock benefits from it the way say a rogue can. If hexblade we're in the game, believe me I'd be singing a different tune about pact of the blade. The two were made for each other, but without hexblade, pact of the blade just feels, incomplete.

But with what we have, agonizing blast is just to much of a boost to EB to bother focusing on anything else.

[KOHb]

xposethedarkside eredeti hozzászólása:

But with what we have, agonizing blast is just to much of a boost to EB to bother focusing on anything else.

Agonizing blast is so broken ATM that if Larian won't fix it — top warlock build would be EB spam bot and the pact choise won't matter at all :)

Tbh, at the moment I don't see any much difference betwee pact's pofits.

[xposethedarkside]

Criminal Horse eredeti hozzászólása:

xposethedarkside eredeti hozzászólása:

But with what we have, agonizing blast is just to much of a boost to EB to bother focusing on anything else.

Agonizing blast is so broken ATM that if Larian won't fix it — top warlock build would be EB spam bot and the pact choise won't matter at all :)

Tbh, at the moment I don't see any much difference betwee pact's pofits.

Even if they do fix it, I still think it will be top. Unfortunately warlock is one of those classes that didn't really come into their own with just the players handbook. So much of the best stuff came later in books like Tasha's and Xanathars.

Agree as well about the pact boons. They're all pretty meh. Invisiimp has the most utility right now, but that's only because we're still low level and the imp can still effectively run interference.
But that ain't gonna last long. Once you start getting past level 5 and these beginner areas, pretty much anything's gonna one shot the imp.

[Yojo0o]

The big thing missing for an effective bladelock is proper armor and weapon proficiency. Hexblades are best known for their charisma-scaling weaponry, but they significantly also get medium armor and shields. The BG3 races who get armor proficiency don't have charisma, making them awkward fits.

You could perhaps try making a Githyanki bladelock with stats along the lines of 16/12/14/9/10/14, give or take. Not the best charisma score for a warlock, suboptimal AC or HP, and really awkward ASI decisions ahead, though.

Wyll gets rapier proficiency, but his dexterity is actual trash for a dex-based bladelock, so going bladelock for him doesn't seem like it offers much. Unless his stats are changed in 1.0, he's wasted as a "Blade of the Frontier", and should be built as a blaster.

[KOHb]

Yojo0o eredeti hozzászólása:

The big thing missing for an effective bladelock is proper armor and weapon proficiency. Hexblades are best known for their charisma-scaling weaponry, but they significantly also get medium armor and shields.

And the Shield spell if I remember it right.
That's a huge pro for a melee warlock.

[Yojo0o]

Eh... people talk big about access to Shield, but I find it really hard to use as a Hexblade. With only two spell slots at most in a fight, using one as a reaction to avoid a hit is a tall order.

I think getting Shield as a Hexblade is significantly more powerful if you're dipping it in a build like Paladin.

[xposethedarkside]

Yojo0o eredeti hozzászólása:

The big thing missing for an effective bladelock is proper armor and weapon proficiency. Hexblades are best known for their charisma-scaling weaponry, but they significantly also get medium armor and shields. The BG3 races who get armor proficiency don't have charisma, making them awkward fits.

You could perhaps try making a Githyanki bladelock with stats along the lines of 16/12/14/9/10/14, give or take. Not the best charisma score for a warlock, suboptimal AC or HP, and really awkward ASI decisions ahead, though.

Wyll gets rapier proficiency, but his dexterity is actual trash for a dex-based bladelock, so going bladelock for him doesn't seem like it offers much. Unless his stats are changed in 1.0, he's wasted as a "Blade of the Frontier", and should be built as a blaster.

Yep. Agreed on all points. That's why Hexblade comes so front loaded. It all comes together for the pact of the blade at level 3. Everything after that is icing on a great cake. Hexblade is really just a recognition that pact of the blade was incomplete. They're two parts of a whole. Without that whole, EB blaster will always be better because EB blaster is pretty much fully realized in the PHB.

[KOHb]

Yojo0o eredeti hozzászólása:

Eh... people talk big about access to Shield, but I find it really hard to use as a Hexblade. With only two spell slots at most in a fight, using one as a reaction to avoid a hit is a tall order.

I think getting Shield as a Hexblade is significantly more powerful if you're dipping it in a build like Paladin.

As my friend saying when rushing into the mob: "If you haven't died in the first round — you are useful enough".
And 1 slot for shield is usually enough for it :D

[xposethedarkside]

Criminal Horse eredeti hozzászólása:

Yojo0o eredeti hozzászólása:

Eh... people talk big about access to Shield, but I find it really hard to use as a Hexblade. With only two spell slots at most in a fight, using one as a reaction to avoid a hit is a tall order.

I think getting Shield as a Hexblade is significantly more powerful if you're dipping it in a build like Paladin.

As my friend saying when rushing into the mob: "If you haven't died in the first round — you are useful enough".
And 1 slot for shield is usually enough for it :D

Haha, these two posts remind of the show Cobra Kai

Daniel Larusso - "Best defense, no be there" = Shield.
Johnny Lawrence - "Best defense is more offense" = Hellish Rebuke.