My paladin broke her oath by killing goblins?

[wylkyn]

I was fighting the Hobgoblin leader in the goblin camp, and all his gobbo friends, and then when the combat ended, it said that my paladin broke her oath. How? I have no idea what she did other than fight evil goblins. It seems that without any feedback on what your paladin is doing wrong, everyone will eventually become an oathbreaker. How does the system work? I've tried to make her make the right choices in conversation and so forth, though I've avoided the Paladin conversation lines that would just outright start a battle. Is that what the problem is? I sincerely hope this isn't the only choice for paladin characters, because that would suck. It's like 2nd edition all over again.

[Locklave]

The Paladin isn't supposed to be welcomed into a place peacefully then start killing everyone. Not paladin like at all. Saying "evil goblins" doesn't make it alright.

Even if they were bad guys there is a tacit agreement not to fight for no reason. You broke that agreement.

Play a fighter if you want to have no rules or expectations for your behaviour.

[Charging Elincia]

Remember you are a holy Paladin. Deception is a tool of cowards! Don't approach your foes under false pretenses, don your helmet, take out your sword, yell LEEROY JENKINS! and then your oath should be fine. Well, assuming that you don't attack relative innocents/non hostiles. (I dunno if the game will ever give you the Lawful Stupid "I have detected your alignment and you must die" Paladin as funny as it would be.)

Like I remember in some old old DND groups I had, I'd have DMs that would count using poisoned weapons in honest duels or fights was an oathbreak situation too. So I could see dishonorable conduct, using deceit, manipulation, and betrayal as an oathbreak yeah. That said yes, clear signposting about what breaks your oaths would be nice.

Maybe add a section under the same area your inspirations that are shown, that hint at what may break, or reinforce your oath in the future.

[Hobocop]

I wouldn't be surprised if the uncertainty is part of the point.

But I agree that the tenets of each oath should be clearly visible somewhere in the game itself.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

It's weird that a single act breaks the Oath. Typically it takes several repeated acts to get there. I suppose the limited time frame of a video game means they have to step up the pace if they're going to use it at all.

[Doc]

Further evidence that the goblins are doing nothing wrong.

[Chillearth]

There is a need for a 'settings' toggle that says 'your Paladin cannot become fallen'. If you want to play a Paladin of one of the original sub-classes, it can be too easy to fall, meaning almost all paladins become oathbreakers eventually. THAT is not cool.

[Cruddy]

meanwhile my Oath of Nature Paladin stole from and killed all the Druids in the Grove(even the good ones) and didn't break his Oath. The guidelines for Paladins are extremely vague.

[brendan_in_china]

The guidelines for Ancients paladins are fuzzy because the archetype isn't as strong. But basically Kagha's druids are doing the opposite; she's going to hide the light and kill off the living.

Unfortunate you killed even the good ones, but frankly they're complicit.

[Danielle]

This is a DnD 5e game and paladins follow the tenets of their oath, if you don't like it you can always play a cleric or warrior. Also just because you broke your oath doesn't mean it's over you can do an act of self-denial, like fasting or ask a paladin or cleric for absolution. Probably something they still need to add to the game.

The only problem I see with this is breaking your oath so many times that it looks like your paladin doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥, if that happen you probably are force to pick a new class if you don't want to go oathbreaker. I have no problem with that but it must be a pain in the ass to implement.

Also here are the tenets,

Oath of Devotion:
Honesty. Don’t lie or cheat. Let your word be your promise.
Courage. Never fear to act, though caution is wise.
Compassion. Aid others, protect the weak, and punish those who threaten them. Show mercy to your foes, but temper it with wisdom.
Honor. Treat others with fairness, and let your honorable deeds be an example to them. Do as much good as possible while causing the least amount of harm.
Duty. Be responsible for your actions and their consequences, protect those entrusted to your care, and obey those who have just authority over you.

Oath of the Ancients:
Kindle the Light. Through your acts of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness, kindle the light of hope in the world, beating back despair.
Shelter the Light. Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren.
Preserve Your Own Light. Delight in song and laughter, in beauty and art. If you allow the light to die in your own heart, you can’t preserve it in the world.
Be the Light. Be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds.

Oath of Vengeance:
Fight the Greater Evil. Faced with a choice of fighting my sworn foes or combating a lesser evil, I choose the greater evil.
No Mercy for the Wicked. Ordinary foes might win my mercy, but my sworn enemies do not.
By Any Means Necessary. My qualms can’t get in the way of exterminating my foes.
Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.

[Unclechopchop]

unless you go through the entire game announcing loudly that you intend to fight a fair duel with every enemy you encounter you will most likely end up an oath breaker, the devs will find it really hard to make the class work morally as in a real dnd game you can rationalise a certain way of doing things as still being morally good (ie. sneaking up and killing the bad guy stealthily even though its technically not a "fair" fight) and your dm will agree, but in this game it has to be coded as black and white with no grey areas so there is no room for ambiguity.

[wylkyn]

Okay, so from all the responses (thanks everyone) it's probably because I came to the goblin camp peacefully and then attacked once inside. I created an Oath of Ancient whatever paladin, hoping it wasn't so prissy, but I guess not. Hopefully they give more options as a paladin that aren't "insult someone before you're allowed to kill them" when the full game comes out. Otherwise, they aren't really powerful enough to justify that kind of game play handicap. "Your god wants you to walk into the middle of this evil lair and loudly shout what scumbags they are before it's okay to fight them." It smacks of the days (*cough* 2nd edition *cough*) when poison was considered "evil". You can burn someone alive with a fireball, but poison is just over the top. ok.

I'm doing the multiplayer biz to allow me to create my own party, and have been using the paladin for the lead, since her Charisma is high. Makes me wonder if she would have been an oathbreaker even if she wasn't talking to everyone. I'll have to experiment with that.

Anyway, she's doing fine right now as an oathbreaker paladin. I wasn't about to shell out 2000 gp just so she could cast heal now and possibly lose her oath again. Haven't had a chance to control undead yet, but the fear thing came in handy. And now I don't have to worry about breaking my oath. Thanks again for all the feedback.

[Danielle]

Publicado originalmente por andrewlambaaves:

unless you go through the entire game announcing loudly that you intend to fight a fair duel with every enemy you encounter you will most likely end up an oath breaker, the devs will find it really hard to make the class work morally as in a real dnd game you can rationalise a certain way of doing things as still being morally good (ie. sneaking up and killing the bad guy stealthily even though its technically not a "fair" fight) and your dm will agree, but in this game it has to be coded as black and white with no grey areas so there is no room for ambiguity.

If you have the oath of devotion you cannot rationalize, that is the whole point. It is indeed black and white, the oath of vengeance on the other hand is perfect for doing things like that.

[brendan_in_china]

I'm playing Devotion and am always approaching with dialogue first. I think this is appropriate because a white-knighting ought to give beings the benefit of the doubt first. Sure enough, everyone's attacking me like crazy!

Wow, I can see why paladins need heavy armour! Shield of faith (lasting all day) is my friend.

****

Glad to see OP became oath-breaker by choice and not bug. Yeah, if I oath-break, I'll probably stick with that too.

[Panic Fire]

FYI guys Oath of Ancients don't have tenants about not lying. So feel free to be deceptive as ♥♥♥♥.

[brendan_in_china]

Sure, so long as you'e a paragon of life, hope and beauty. Lie away.