My paladin broke her oath by killing goblins?

[wylkyn]

I was fighting the Hobgoblin leader in the goblin camp, and all his gobbo friends, and then when the combat ended, it said that my paladin broke her oath. How? I have no idea what she did other than fight evil goblins. It seems that without any feedback on what your paladin is doing wrong, everyone will eventually become an oathbreaker. How does the system work? I've tried to make her make the right choices in conversation and so forth, though I've avoided the Paladin conversation lines that would just outright start a battle. Is that what the problem is? I sincerely hope this isn't the only choice for paladin characters, because that would suck. It's like 2nd edition all over again.

[ExcaliburV]

I can only assume it's because, by technicality, you attacked "innocent" non-hostile creatures. I think the safe bet would be to take the dialogue options that start the battle directly.

I would honestly assume it's a programming discrepancy rather than something intentional.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

It's a new feature, obviously it's going to need work to get it right.

[Balkoth]

Yeah, happened to me. I just paid the 2k gold and never got an oath breaker status again just playing normally.

It's just a bug because they're flagged as innocent NPCs when they're not.

[Drakan]

In your passive abilities, turn on "non-lethal" attacks, (for your paladin at least). Should help you keep your oath - the system is still a bit buggy, and clearly will be something they'll iron out with patches in the future as they gather data from all the 10000's of possible scenarios.

[mt1green]

It's pretty simple if you break the peace., attacking someone you agreed not to attack you have broken your oath.

[jinath715]

Did you kill goblin children?

[Wraith]

Maybe it because you got into the base non aggressively but as soon as your inside you start killing.

Might count as an oathbreak
Like in the village with the Orge if a goblin get involved in the fight and you got in peacefully they will count as a oathbreak

[jinath715]

It is possible, as others here have pointed out, that you might break your oath when you initiate a confrontation with anyone who is currently not hostile with you.

However, dialog encounters would probably work in your favor.

For instance, when you are in goblin fortress with Sazza and you meet the drow priest Minthara for the first time. If you aggro her through her dialog and then proceed to do battle with her, you'll probably maintain your oath because it is she who is initiating the attack.

However, if you initiate the attack before dialog begins or after a peaceful resolution, then because they were all non-hostile to that point, you would lose your oath becoming an oathbreaker for attacking non-hostile targets.

I think playing a paladin is meant to be like playing a pacifist of sorts.
Just wait until someone attacks you to be on the safe side.

[Panic Fire]

Originally posted by jinath715:

It is possible, as others here have pointed out, that you might break your oath when you initiate a confrontation with anyone who is currently not hostile with you.

However, dialog encounters would probably work in your favor.

For instance, when you are in goblin fortress with Sazza and you meet the drow priest Minthara for the first time. If you aggro her through her dialog and then proceed to do battle with her, you'll probably maintain your oath because it is she who is initiating the attack.

However, if you initiate the attack before dialog begins or after a peaceful resolution, then because they were all non-hostile to that point, you would lose your oath becoming an oathbreaker for attacking non-hostile targets.

I think playing a paladin is meant to be like playing a pacifist of sorts.
Just wait until someone attacks you to be on the safe side.

Paladins have different oaths. Use these to help you understand what your paladins oaths are.


Tenets of Devotion

Though the exact words and strictures of the Oath of Devotion vary, paladins of this oath share these tenets.

Honesty. Don't lie or cheat. Let your word be your promise.

Courage. Never fear to act, though caution is wise.

Compassion. Aid others, protect the weak, and punish those who threaten them. Show mercy to your foes, but temper it with wisdom.

Honor. Treat others with fairness, and let your honorable deeds be an example to them. Do as much good as possible while causing the least amount of harm.

Duty. Be responsible for your actions and their consequences, protect those entrusted to your care, and obey those who have just authority over you.



Tenets of the Ancients

The tenets of the Oath of the Ancients have been preserved for uncounted centuries. This oath emphasizes the principles of good above any concerns of law or chaos. Its four central principles are simple.

Kindle the Light. Through your acts of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness, kindle the light of hope in the world, beating back despair.

Shelter the Light. Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren.

Preserve Your Own Light. Delight in song and laughter, in beauty and art. If you allow the light to die in your own heart, you can't preserve it in the world.

Be the Light. Be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds.




(In comparison to say Oath of Conquest)


Tenets of Conquest

A paladin who takes this oath has the tenets of conquest seared on the upper arm.

Douse the Flame of Hope. It is not enough to merely defeat an enemy in battle. Your victory must be so overwhelming that your enemies’ will to fight is shattered forever. A blade can end a life. Fear can end an empire.

Rule with an Iron Fist. Once you have conquered, tolerate no dissent. Your word is law. Those who obey it shall be favored. Those who defy it shall be punished as an example to all who might follow.

Strength Above All. You shall rule until a stronger one arises. Then you must grow mightier and meet the challenge, or fall to your own ruin.



Did you follow your oaths?

[WeenerTuck813]

I just broke mine by NOT killing the hag (I deceived her, saved Myrena and got the hag hair). Dangit

[NixAhmose]

I really wished that they would show what the actual oath guidelines are so that people wouldn't get confused by this stuff.

Like, lets just run down the Devotion Paladin, which is probably what they used as the baseline for the oath system.


"Honesty. Don't lie or cheat. Let your word be your promise."
As a Devotion Paladin, you can not lie ever. Even if it is for a noble goal, like getting close to a villain to strike them down or save an innocent, doing so will still result in your oath being broken as your word is no longer good enough for people to trust your promises.

"Duty. Be responsible for your actions and their consequences, protect those entrusted to your care, and obey those who have just authority over you."
This is why if you turn Astarion into the vampire hunter you end up breaking your oath. Regardless of whether Astarion counts as an innocent or a villain(I think he's still counts as the former but that's a whole other discussion), once you recruit Astarion he is entrusted to your care. So by betraying him you are actively violating this oath by harming someone who chose to follow your lead and put their trust in you to protect them.


"Compassion. Aid others, protect the weak, and punish those who threaten them. Show MERCY to your foes, but temper it with wisdom."
"Honor. Treat others with fairness, and let your honorable deeds be an example to them. Do as much good as possible while causing the LEAST amount of HARM."
Both of these are basically the same and what I think most players accidentally breaking their oaths are violating. Yes, the goblins in the game that you fight are evil and need to be stopped, BUT, they are still sentient creatures and a Devotion Paladin is not a murderhobo. As a Devotion Paladin, violence is only meant to be used in self-defense or as a last resort, not as something you open with especially when the targets in question aren't actively harming anyone at the moment. By just simply attacking a goblin that's just standing around doing nothing, you are not only violating your oath to do the least amount of harm but are acting dishonorably by attacking a foe that thought you weren't going to attack them.
While I do hope that they later add a feature where Paladin's can attempt intimidate/persuade generic evil npcs into surrendering in order to make it more simple to attack them, having your oath break for attacking goblins unprovoked does make sense is likely intentional.

[Dragon Master]

Think of paladins as the knight in shining armor who is bound to a code of honor. That code governs ALL aspects of a paladin's life.

[tkis]

whiteknighting approach towards the fact, that goblin lives do not matter, is just a no go

[Raï 𓆣]

Originally posted by jinath715:

It is possible, as others here have pointed out, that you might break your oath when you initiate a confrontation with anyone who is currently not hostile with you.

However, dialog encounters would probably work in your favor.

For instance, when you are in goblin fortress with Sazza and you meet the drow priest Minthara for the first time. If you aggro her through her dialog and then proceed to do battle with her, you'll probably maintain your oath because it is she who is initiating the attack.

However, if you initiate the attack before dialog begins or after a peaceful resolution, then because they were all non-hostile to that point, you would lose your oath becoming an oathbreaker for attacking non-hostile targets.

I think playing a paladin is meant to be like playing a pacifist of sorts.
Just wait until someone attacks you to be on the safe side.

These are some hilarious mental gymnastics to have, considering the negative stereotype of the vacuous "holier-than-thou" types of folk. The Oath of Ultimate Vanity ;)

[Edstyles]

Originally posted by wylkyn:

I was fighting the Hobgoblin leader in the goblin camp, and all his gobbo friends, and then when the combat ended, it said that my paladin broke her oath. How? I have no idea what she did other than fight evil goblins. It seems that without any feedback on what your paladin is doing wrong, everyone will eventually become an oathbreaker. How does the system work? I've tried to make her make the right choices in conversation and so forth, though I've avoided the Paladin conversation lines that would just outright start a battle. Is that what the problem is? I sincerely hope this isn't the only choice for paladin characters, because that would suck. It's like 2nd edition all over again.

Its because u talked to the goblins 1st and prolly told them to let you pass and then you broke your oath attacking them is what most likely happened. Tho the camp of goblins is very gimicky in this sense so id just embrace the oathbreaker :p. The paladin is very limited with its charisma cause you can avoid fights and persuade but you cant go back on your word.