Non lethal combat mechanic is incredibly unreliable

[LimpBrisket]

I just finished the Save Vanra quest and I specifically used non lethal attacks on Captain grisly, even going so far as to heal her so that I could take the mask from her.

Now the game is telling me shes dead? I used non lethal attacks on Korilla and she 'survived', so it seems to be random as to whether or non this works, which is really frustrating.

I can't even reload a previous save because I don't have any from before that specific fight ):

[Braxis]

non-lethal only works with melee weapons. Spell and arrows etc will still kill, although there is very little difference as KO'd people are removed at next long rest any way

[Moonbane]

You are better off ignoring the slaves completely and focusing on ethel and the mushrooms.

[Revan619]

Non lethal was a nightmare for minsc as he set himself on fire. I had to heal him for 3 rounds otherwise he was ould die from his own damn fire.

They need to make it have more uses storewide such as minthara

[smellibear]

Yeah I keep seeing reports that nonlethal attacks don't even work. Like when I tried to spare Mayrina's brothers from Ethel I knocked them out but she still acted like I'd killed them, even though I told her I haven't. Supposedly there was going be a function where we could take prisoners but they scrapped it and I guess nonlethal is just riddled with leftover unimplemented features

[cheetah1546]

My friend had the same thing happen as the OP. They tried so hard and got everyone down nonlethal. But afterwards, those involved with the quest treated it as if everyone was killed.

[Callirgos]

Non-Lethal promises a lot as a feature. There is a clear expectation from the player.

There is an engineering, catch all, solution that could be implemented to make it work how players want. Would still require some scripting and journal touch-ups to make it read properly. It would need to be a high priority item in a patch to get it to work how we all expect.

I think it's worth it.

Most players would rather deal with the video-gameyness of knocking someone out and having them wake up as non-hostile compared to named NPCs needing to be killed.

Non-Lethal on Major NPCs would need some real consideration. But I'm sure just despawning them when the level is reloaded would make most people happy. Some touchup ALT journal entries too.

Worst case scenario would be knocking out a boss, healing them, talking to them, and having to fight them again. But I think we'd rather have that than not being able to reset some villager NPC we angered with a bad dialogue roll.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

only basic melee attacks are affect by nonlethal passive, if you used any other kinds of damage that's why it didn't work - it also just doesn't consider it outside of scripted cases so just because it makes sense to knock a character out doesn't mean it makes any difference - the game treats it as death outside of maybe 2 or 3 specific cases.

[LimpBrisket]

Originally posted by Braxis:

non-lethal only works with melee weapons. Spell and arrows etc will still kill, although there is very little difference as KO'd people are removed at next long rest any way

I used melee weapons. They showed as knocked out and I was even able to partially heal them after the battle. I used the exact same method for Korilla and Oskar and it worked fine, which is why it's so frustrating :/

[LimpBrisket]

Originally posted by smellibear:

Yeah I keep seeing reports that nonlethal attacks don't even work. Like when I tried to spare Mayrina's brothers from Ethel I knocked them out but she still acted like I'd killed them, even though I told her I haven't. Supposedly there was going be a function where we could take prisoners but they scrapped it and I guess nonlethal is just riddled with leftover unimplemented features

Yeah it really feels like they tried to work it into some story lines but then just... completely forgot about it for others? I just wish it were clearer which ones you could use it in :/

[smellibear]

I will say this, nonlethal was invaluable on keeping Alfira alive for my Urge playthrough because I want that robe

[LimpBrisket]

Originally posted by cheetah1546:

My friend had the same thing happen as the OP. They tried so hard and got everyone down nonlethal. But afterwards, those involved with the quest treated it as if everyone was killed.

Yep! It took so many tries too because I have unstable blood, and the masks kept setting the knocked out people on fire and killing them!! Then when I finally got it I deleted my previous saves because I'm an idiot with no foresight apparently lmao

[LimpBrisket]

Originally posted by Callirgos:

Non-Lethal promises a lot as a feature. There is a clear expectation from the player.

There is an engineering, catch all, solution that could be implemented to make it work how players want. Would still require some scripting and journal touch-ups to make it read properly. It would need to be a high priority item in a patch to get it to work how we all expect.

I think it's worth it.

Most players would rather deal with the video-gameyness of knocking someone out and having them wake up as non-hostile compared to named NPCs needing to be killed.

Non-Lethal on Major NPCs would need some real consideration. But I'm sure just despawning them when the level is reloaded would make most people happy. Some touchup ALT journal entries too.

Worst case scenario would be knocking out a boss, healing them, talking to them, and having to fight them again. But I think we'd rather have that than not being able to reset some villager NPC we angered with a bad dialogue roll.

Yep totally agree. It seems like agreat feature and its really rewarding when implemented (see my comments about Korilla). And there's already dialogue planned etc for when you save Grisly, so seems like a massive oversight to not have the non lethal option working in this scenario :/

[Maraxus]

I think this is a feature of the mask, not a bug with non-lethal combat. I did the same as the OP, checking Captain Grisly's status after the fight she was definitely 'downed', not dead. Looted her and took the mask, and after doing that she was dead. The Combat log shows an entry saying something like 'Captain Grisly's mind collapsed' at the point the mask was removed, so it looks like it's how the masks work (which would be the sort of sick joke that appeals to a hag)

[Callirgos]

I made a thread to compile all the moments that players wished non-lethal would have worked. Please add this to that.

Let's make a list so we can present something substantial to Larian.

[Beef Hammer]

I've killed people using non lethal in melee, so it's not working right for sure, and people that are knocked out are still treated as dead in quests and story anyway sooo, kinda sucks.