Animals Are Strangely Intelligent!

[GrandMajora]

For a class of creatures who are generally considered to have 3 intelligence at most, the animals in this game seem to be shockingly eloquent when using the Speak With Animals spell.

I mean, Ogres are supposed to be more intelligent (around 5-6), yet they exhibit a slow, dull witted manner of speech. Almost as if they're struggling to form a sapient thought.

Yet when I visit the Sylvanus Grove, I can find a rat who somehow understands the concept of evil.

Or in Grymforge, I can find a spider who has apparently discovered religion, and is trying to persuade her brothers to abandon the man who raised them, so they can achieve their true potential in the service of Lolth.

[Metallicus]

It seems Larian is using the spell to enhance the story and add some humor to the game. I personally support this approach over ‘realism’.

[Cirrus]

Originally posted by Metallicus:

It seems Larian is using the spell to enhance the story and add some humor to the game. I personally support this approach over ‘realism’.

And dnd realism is the fact that dm can do that always.

[Ghost]

Well yeah, a lot of the animals in the druid grove are familiars or druids themselves in a nature god blessed grove. But yes, can see where you're coming from especially in regards to the ogres. I'd hesitate to say the rat understands the concept of evil though. And Lolth is the goddess of spiders so that does also sort of make sense.

Definitely leaning more to humour over realism in these circumstances but speaking realistically most animals are a lot more intelligent then people would credit. Most of them are basically toddlers.

Typically when it comes down to "smarts" etc. in dnd though; animals are judged with wisdom and humanoids (like the ogres) are judged with intelligence.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Metallicus:

It seems Larian is using the spell to enhance the story and add some humor to the game. I personally support this approach over ‘realism’.

Originally posted by Ghost:

Typically when it comes down to "smarts" etc. in dnd though; animals are judged with wisdom and humanoids (like the ogres) are judged with intelligence.

But there's a 5th level spell (Awaken) which grants animals a permanent increase to their Intelligence, raising it to 10 and giving them the ability to speak one language that the caster knows.

Seems like such a spell would be kind of unnecessary in this game.

[Quillithe]

It's kinda a Larian trend that talking to animals is either jokes or...really depressing.

Seriously, what the hell DOS:2.

[dulany67]

Sometimes things are gamey because it's a game.

[Snow]

Consider this : the talk to animals spell isn't a litteral translation of what the animal is saying, but more a of a magically enhanced interpretation of what the said animal is expressing.

[Townsendvol]

Ok maybe this game has been in early access to long if this is what we are talking about. You can talk to animals but they are to intelligent. ;)

I have started to wonder, if this game can ever live up to the expectations, they are adding so much stuff and so many options, is it just destined to be a disappointment to many?

Personally I think it will be a great game but good luck to Larian overcoming the hopes and dreams of so many.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Snow:

Consider this : the talk to animals spell isn't a litteral translation of what the animal is saying, but more a of a magically enhanced interpretation of what the said animal is expressing.

This right here is the correct answer and should be marked as such.

The animals are anthropomorphized, because if they weren't, then Speak With Animals would be boring.

I love what Larian's doing with this spell, as it's something that normally see's short shrift in D&D.

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Metallicus:

It seems Larian is using the spell to enhance the story and add some humor to the game. I personally support this approach over ‘realism’.

Originally posted by Ghost:

Typically when it comes down to "smarts" etc. in dnd though; animals are judged with wisdom and humanoids (like the ogres) are judged with intelligence.

But there's a 5th level spell (Awaken) which grants animals a permanent increase to their Intelligence, raising it to 10 and giving them the ability to speak one language that the caster knows.

Seems like such a spell would be kind of unnecessary in this game.

No, Awaken would not be useless. Speak with animals only allows the caster to speak with them and only for the duration of the spell. Awaken is permanent and would let anyone speak with the animal (provided the caster allowed the animal to know common).

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

But there's a 5th level spell (Awaken) which grants animals a permanent increase to their Intelligence, raising it to 10 and giving them the ability to speak one language that the caster knows.

Seems like such a spell would be kind of unnecessary in this game.

No, Awaken would not be useless. Speak with animals only allows the caster to speak with them and only for the duration of the spell. Awaken is permanent and would let anyone speak with the animal (provided the caster allowed the animal to know common).

But Awaken would be useless in BG3. When would you ever need an animal to be able to speak permanently?

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

No, Awaken would not be useless. Speak with animals only allows the caster to speak with them and only for the duration of the spell. Awaken is permanent and would let anyone speak with the animal (provided the caster allowed the animal to know common).

I mean useless in the sense that the animals don't particularly need a boosted intelligence, if they're already this clever. Based on what I've seen of them so far, their reduced intellect stems more from a sense of not being very educated about the world, rather than actually being stupid.

Another example that I remembered, is the cow at the grove who wants to learn how to Wildshape, and is philosophizing on whether or not people are actually what they appear to be. He also seems to understand the concept of spite, as he has been known to deliberately eat the treasures that the tieflings hide in his food, and then makes them go digging around through his backside to retrieve them.

https://youtu.be/XyKgNozC6d0

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

But Awaken would be useless in BG3. When would you ever need an animal to be able to speak permanently?

Scouts and messenger birds are just a couple examples that immediately spring to mind.

Many, if not all birds have near telescopic vision, so you send them up into the sky to survey the area, then come back and report to the party what they've seen. And with that newly awakened human level intelligence, they can provide much more details than a typical bird would care to mention.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

No, Awaken would not be useless. Speak with animals only allows the caster to speak with them and only for the duration of the spell. Awaken is permanent and would let anyone speak with the animal (provided the caster allowed the animal to know common).

I mean useless in the sense that the animals don't particularly need a boosted intelligence, if they're already this clever.

https://youtu.be/XyKgNozC6d0

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

But Awaken would be useless in BG3. When would you ever need an animal to be able to speak permanently?

Scouts and messenger birds are just a couple examples that immediately spring to mind.

Many, if not all birds have near telescopic vision, so you send them up into the sky to survey the area, then come back and report to the party what they've seen. And with that newly awakened human level intelligence, they can provide much more details than a typical bird would care to mention.

That's a tabletop thing though, how would they be useful in BG3??

If you have a familiar, you can send them to scout ahead already and you see everything they do (they even used to unlock fast travel portals).

And flying doesn't work in BG3 like it does in tabletop. Mostly, it just grants immunity to surface effects (and tends to have a much larger movement range, as well as not needing to use a bonus action to "jump", which is just fly to a spot).

If you're thinking in terms of permanent companions, we already have familiars and the Ranger's beast companion, and they work as 'scouts' with no need to speak with them directly.

Speaking with animals in BG3 seems to serve two purposes - comic relief and a bit of light heartedness, and also hidden information the player might not otherwise be aware of (sometimes animals have little tidbits of info about the area that might not be obvious or apparent, so this can be used as a recon tool). That's pretty much all it's good for. You're never going to be with any particular animal long enough to need Awaken, so Speak With Animals is enough.

[Hobocop]

Awaken is a 5th-level spell, probably beyond the ability of most druids to cast, requires expensive material components, and takes 8 hours to cast.

Speak With Animals can be done essentially on demand as an action or 10 minutes as a ritual. If you need information or a favor an animal is able to provide right away, it's a no-brainer.

[tomyjp]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

That's a tabletop thing though, how would they be useful in BG3??

Maybe 10 Intelligence could change a response of some animals like Scratch or Owlbear mother?

Scratch might recognize his owner's death instantaneously.

Or Owlbear mother might intimidate adventurers to give her something which heal her wound
if she had observed some person's using of healing potion before.
Or it might try to robbing or bargaining.

Perhaps some animal would give ambiguous hint with Speak with Animals, but the same animal could give more obvious hint what he is talking about when it has 10 intelligence.

However, the spell requires 8 hour of casting time in 5e, and it might require more script writing from developers if it was changed casting time duration, though.