BG3 isn't woke.

[Ellie]

It's not, I'm sorry. Having gay characters, or leaving open the boundaries of gender in a fantasy game, is not inherently woke. Woke-ism is the forceful use of gender politics at the cost of quality.

BG3 just happens to allow for gay pairings to happen (as they do in reality), allows for a gender/sex mismatch (which exists in reality) and presents strong female personalities (which also do exist in reality.) There's still no shortage of straight and strong male characters, and even though the character creator allows for it, none of the ingame characters you meet are trans (unlike, for example, Hogwarts Legacy approached it.)

The quality of the writing, the immersiveness of the World, none of this suffers at the game allowing the maximum number of people to imagine themselves as part of the Swordcoast.

A woke game would have all straight-white-male villains and gay-poc-whatever protagonists. That's the message, that's the woke narrative. BG3 has amazing women, and really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ones, and amazing guys, and really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ones.

In BG3, if you only know the identity features of a character, you won't be able to infer what side they are on. (And even what the sides are isn't really obvious.) Because it's not a woke game.

If anything, BG3 is in the same category of Arcane. They remove Christian identity politics (men as the inherent leaders, nobody allowed who isn't straight, white superiority, etc.) and instead mix things up. That doesn't make it woke, it's just not the right-wing version of woke.

There is a lot of media that's woke these days, but people got their circuits fried by political YouTube videos if they think BG3 is anything like that.

[DaciValt]

These people have been shouting the same tune since Dragon Age Origins just only getting more and more offended as gay characters are allowed to be more interesting outside of tokenism.

Well gay male characters specifically, they never really care about lesbians... Shocking I know.

As for "woke" these days just having a woman as a protagonist is considered "too woke."

[seeker1]

1. I agree. Take my points. Take them please.
2. Hope you have your flame retardant suit prepped, as I suspect there will be incoming.
3. I always knew there was more to you than boob physics. (I kid. I kid. I have nothing AGAINST boob physics.)
4. "Woke" is an idiotic word for thought stoppage and halting discussion, not facilitating it. But I've said that many times.
5. Sven Vincke IMHO has one and only one over-arching agenda: to make money. And as I'm not anti-capitalist, good for him. Let him buy some more dogs.

[Cartesian Duelist]

Originally posted by Lizzy:

The quality of the writing, the immersiveness of the World, none of this suffers at the game allowing the maximum number of people to imagine themselves as part of the Swordcoast.

There are some bits and pieces of woke mixed around in the game, but I'd agree with you that that isn't what makes the game/story suffer. Overall, the game as a whole isn't woke.
Unfortunately, the game does suffer from the writers just not being very good.

[solaris32]

As someone who hates woke stuff I can confirm BG3 is not woke. The worst thing it does is that idiotic "bodytype" instead of gender. I don't even mind the pronouns because all that does is change how NPCs address you in case you think it's hilarious your hairy male Tav being called a ma'am.

[AngryBeard]

Originally posted by seeker1:

1. I agree. Take my points. Take them please.
2. Hope you have your flame retardant suit prepped, as I suspect there will be incoming.
3. I always knew there was more to you than boob physics. (I kid. I kid. I have nothing AGAINST boob physics.)
4. "Woke" is an idiotic word for thought stoppage and halting discussion, not facilitating it. But I've said that many times.
5. Sven Vincke IMHO has one and only one over-arching agenda: to make money. And as I'm not anti-capitalist, good for him. Let him buy some more dogs.

I'm going to slightly and politely disagree with your characterization of Sven. I do agree he wants to make money, BUT he does legitimately seem like he wants to make games that he is proud of. I don't think money is his only motivation.

[Ellie]

Originally posted by seeker1:

I always knew there was more to you than boob physics.

Don't tell anyone, that harms my rep.

(Kidding aside, I really appreciate your comments too. In every thread I see you, you're super reasonable, articulated, thought out.)

Originally posted by seeker1:

Hope you have your flame retardant suit prepped, as I suspect there will be incoming.

I grew up on the internet, I'm already dead inside, let them bring it, lol

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by GhostButter:

Originally posted by seeker1:

1. I agree. Take my points. Take them please.
2. Hope you have your flame retardant suit prepped, as I suspect there will be incoming.
3. I always knew there was more to you than boob physics. (I kid. I kid. I have nothing AGAINST boob physics.)
4. "Woke" is an idiotic word for thought stoppage and halting discussion, not facilitating it. But I've said that many times.
5. Sven Vincke IMHO has one and only one over-arching agenda: to make money. And as I'm not anti-capitalist, good for him. Let him buy some more dogs.

I'm going to slightly and politely disagree with your characterization of Sven. I do agree he wants to make money, BUT he does legitimately seem like he wants to make games that he is proud of. I don't think money is his only motivation.

Money's one of those necessary evils of producing projects like video games in today's market structure, and his commentary on industry related matters on X formerly known as Twitter seems to line up with your assessment.

[Ellie]

Originally posted by GhostButter:

BUT he does legitimately seem like he wants to make games that he is proud of. I don't think money is his only motivation.

We can never look inside of people's mind, but from what I've seen of him I want to believe that he's the real deal. Nothing wrong with wanting to make money, but I agree with you that he seems more motivated by wanting to make a good game.

[seeker1]

Originally posted by GhostButter:

I'm going to slightly and politely disagree with your characterization of Sven. I do agree he wants to make money, BUT he does legitimately seem like he wants to make games that he is proud of. I don't think money is his only motivation.

Fair enough. I do agree this game in many ways is a labor of love; I've read about Sven's bio and he seems to have loved D & D since he was a small one, and there is no doubt about it. He loves D & D, he always wanted to make this game ... and it shows. He had to approach WotC TWICE to get the license. First time they turned him down. But that's commitment.

Anyway, yes, I agree, he could have been like all the vipers out there and put in predatory micro-transactions and other ♥♥♥♥ that currently infects so much of the gaming space ... and part of the respect for this game is that Larian did NOT do that.

[AngryBeard]

I would probably find my boss showing up to work in a suit of armor awkward, but it has to say something about the guy.

[An Irate Walrus]

We've needled each other a couple of times, but when you're right, you're right.

My points to you, OP. No notes.

[terminalinsanity]

It certainly has woke aspects injected into it.

For example, every single character in the whole game is bi. That's not just "representation" of LGBT, that is literally just the erasure of all straight people.

I feel like this game creates unrealistic expectations for how actual 'romancing" happens.

Kids playing this game are going to think everyone is just going to fall over themselves trembling for you at all times, and you're going to have to watch everything you say to avoid leading anyone on.

Gale wanted to show me a secret about the Weave and next thing you know he's leaning in for a kiss like wut m8

[An Irate Walrus]

Originally posted by terminalinsanity:

It certainly has woke aspects injected into it.

For example, every single character in the whole game is bi. That's not just "representation" of LGBT, that is literally just the erasure of all straight people.

I feel like this game creates unrealistic expectations for how actual 'romancing" happens.

Kids playing this game are going to think everyone is just going to fall over themselves trembling for you at all times, and you're going to have to watch everything you say to avoid leading anyone on.

Gale wanted to show me a secret about the Weave and next thing you know he's leaning in for a kiss like wut m8

The NPCs aren't bi; they're playersexual.

There's a degree of pandering there, but it's not to any specific audience; it's aimed at all the folks who whined about not being able to shtup Dorian as a woman in DA 3, basically.

The NPCs have no sexual identity or agency of their own because they are receptacles of player desire. Other parts of the characterization are remarkably well done, but the sexual identity aspect is basically "talking sex doll for the player," which, if we're going to get into erasure, erases everyone, not just cishet folks like me.

[Andi]

bg3 will never be woke to the average american. because most people in the states are already used to this clown fiesta. the game is just a reflection of their reality. to most outsiders though, bg3 is a woke game.

i will say however, the gameplay is unaffected for the most part. the story is just not the best.

[DaciValt]

Originally posted by terminalinsanity:

It certainly has woke aspects injected into it.

For example, every single character in the whole game is bi. That's not just "representation" of LGBT, that is literally just the erasure of all straight people.

I feel like this game creates unrealistic expectations for how actual 'romancing" happens.

Kids playing this game are going to think everyone is just going to fall over themselves trembling for you at all times, and you're going to have to watch everything you say to avoid leading anyone on.

Gale wanted to show me a secret about the Weave and next thing you know he's leaning in for a kiss like wut m8

By that logic they have erased all gay people too. Or maybe they just wanted to give everyone multiple choices without restriction?

Seems the more reasonable answer.