Making children immortal is a critical design flaw

[Αη Ιnτellecτual Tsiραr]

I committed a crime in front of a child. This child who is unkillable, goes and gets the guards which I then kill. He then repeats this endlessly until I assume I have slaughtered all the guards. If I could just kill the child, the issue would be solved. Seems like a big design flaw of this game imo.

[[OTS]EchoZenLogos]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

Not being able to kill everything is a huge game design flaw indeed. On the other hand, being able to survive a hunt after trying to do so is also a massive game design flaw.

How so?

The former is a flaw because it constricts player agency. The latter isn't a flaw, because the implication you would be hunted down for doing so means that they would need to also design the entire game to have you be hunted down for the countless other murders you commit. Some "realistic" aspects aren't enjoyable or necessary - needing to manually use the bathroom for example in games is pretty universally a bad idea.

It isn't enjoyable or reasonable for us to have to sit through that kind of "realism," but is immersion-breaking to see children survive fireballs or be able to report us to the local law enforcement without us having any way to stop them.

[BLAME! 40K]

Originally posted by OTSEchoZenLogos:

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

Not being able to kill everything is a huge game design flaw indeed. On the other hand, being able to survive a hunt after trying to do so is also a massive game design flaw.

How so?

The former is a flaw because it constricts player agency. The latter isn't a flaw, because the implication you would be hunted down for doing so means that they would need to also design the entire game to have you be hunted down for the countless other murders you commit. Some "realistic" aspects aren't enjoyable or necessary - needing to manually use the bathroom for example in games is pretty universally a bad idea.

It isn't enjoyable or reasonable for us to have to sit through that kind of "realism," but is immersion-breaking to see children survive fireballs or be able to report us to the local law enforcement without us having any way to stop them.

Old baldurs gate had such a system . Where when you murdered x innocent ppl , the flaming fist came after you , so u needed to do good deeds or donate huge ammount of money to the poor at a temple

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Both BG games had this (also, most games that emphasize on reputation/alignment, which are proper RPG then), and in BG2 you had to fight the mages that were spawning endlessly in Athkatla.
This is basically much better for a proper roleplaying immersion.
Only if roleplaying bores you it can break immersion. Roleplaying is about facing the consequences of your actions. If your a kind male lad in the drow society, you're bound to finish dead. If you're a criminal in a State of law society, you're bound to end up in prison or dead. That's part of the whole point to play a RPG, that's why there're few really good RPG in video games, most are way too permissive, which basically isn't roleplay-friendly.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

Both BG games had this (also, most games that emphasize on reputation/alignment, which are proper RPG then), and in BG2 you had to fight the mages that were spawning endlessly in Athkatla.
This is basically much better for a proper roleplaying immersion.
Only if roleplaying bores you it can break immersion. Roleplaying is about facing the consequences of your actions. If your a kind male lad in the drow society, you're bound to finish dead. If you're a criminal in a State of law society, you're bound to end up in prison or dead. That's part of the whole point to play a RPG, that's why there're few really good RPG in video games, most are way too permissive, which basically isn't roleplay-friendly.

Well stated. It's all about internal consistency. A good writer knows what will gain positive reputation and what will draw undue attention within a given society regardless of his own personal morals.

As a note on wizard boys: I suspect almost everyone used the fake-talk glitch to avoid paying the mages, and even the relatively cheap price to get a liscence for magic made the system of a bit of a joke.

[aramintai]

They let you f*ck bears in this game, see very gory and disturbing scenes and full frontal nudity, may as well have gone down to the bottom of that rabbit hole.

[aramintai]

Originally posted by Geist:

Originally posted by aramintai:

They let you f*ck bears in this game, see very gory and disturbing scenes and full frontal nudity, may as well have gone down to the bottom of that rabbit hole.

Maybe it isnt allowed by law in some countries to show this and they therefore do not allow it? We do not know what exactly is the reason why the devs did not include it. But many companies even get rid of young or children character completely in their games to avoid problems, so that we see children in the game is at least something. Also they can get abused by other npcs in this game (the guy hitting the child thief in the face in the druid camp if you allow it to happen) which not many other companies dare to show in a game.

I dunno. They should have reiterated then that you can't turn into a complete murder hobo and kill everybody in the game. Which you could in old BG1, BG2 games, btw, even children. Nothing was banned anywhere.

[[OTS]EchoZenLogos]

Originally posted by BLAME! 40K:

Originally posted by OTSEchoZenLogos:

How so?

The former is a flaw because it constricts player agency. The latter isn't a flaw, because the implication you would be hunted down for doing so means that they would need to also design the entire game to have you be hunted down for the countless other murders you commit. Some "realistic" aspects aren't enjoyable or necessary - needing to manually use the bathroom for example in games is pretty universally a bad idea.

It isn't enjoyable or reasonable for us to have to sit through that kind of "realism," but is immersion-breaking to see children survive fireballs or be able to report us to the local law enforcement without us having any way to stop them.

Old baldurs gate had such a system . Where when you murdered x innocent ppl , the flaming fist came after you , so u needed to do good deeds or donate huge ammount of money to the poor at a temple

See, I'm fine with that kind of system. I'm fine with there being in-game social consequences that make sense, but they do need to be mixed with gameplay. For example - if you are sent to prison, there needs to be an opportunity to escape, or bribe the guards, or so on. Or if you kill enough innocent people and get caught doing so, you get unique encounters of powerful enemies coming after you - but even if you don't get caught, eventually you might see more guards around certain areas or people being less trusting of strangers.

I want that kind of immersion. What I don't want is for certain characters to be immortal and invincible for out-of-universe reasons rather than in-universe reasons. I want everything in the game to be explainable by the logic of the game itself, at least as much as is possible in the context of it being a video game, for maximum immersion.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Αη Ιnτellecτual Tsiραr:

I committed a crime in front of a child. This child who is unkillable, goes and gets the guards which I then kill. He then repeats this endlessly until I assume I have slaughtered all the guards. If I could just kill the child, the issue would be solved. Seems like a big design flaw of this game imo.

Guards are worth 140 XP a piece, and aren't much of a challenge.

I don't see this as a design flaw, but rather an easy XP farm.

[Elfie]

Totally agree with the OP. It really ruins immersion and any "mature" premises the game may have.

Being mature game is not just having sex scenes, it is the overall dark & realistic setting...and here we have some clownery all the way.

Not to mention they quickly respawn when "chased away".

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Elfie:

Totally agree with the OP. It really ruins immersion and any "mature" premises the game may have.

Being mature game is not just having sex scenes, it is the overall dark & realistic setting...and here we have some clownery all the way.

Not to mention they quickly respawn when "chased away".

Also, immortal children seems to be really inconsistent.

Killing Goblin kids = Fine

Killing Tiefling kids = Not Fine

Killing Vampire kids = Fine

Killing Human kids = Not Fine

[Scrubwave]

Originally posted by Metadigital:

This is just a limitation that games have to work with to sell their product.

If you're unhappy with it, then get involved in politics and change the regulatory structure.

What are you talking about, both Steam and Gog are selling OG Fallouts.
You know, the ones with https://i.imgur.com/DHStpmV.mp4
Or Deus Ex, which has https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0kiTVPd81E
On top of that, Larian is self publishing so they only answer to themselves.

[Noctoculus]

Those tiefling kids are absolute ♥♥♥♥♥. Can you imagine if all the refugees were like that? No one would side with them.

[Nathiri]

Originally posted by Noctoculus:

Those tiefling kids are absolute ♥♥♥♥♥. Can you imagine if all the refugees were like that? No one would side with them.

I really don't get the dislike for the Tiefling kids expressed in this thread. Not just you.
I thought a bunch of them had funny interactions and i'm looking forward to seeing what happens when I find Mol's gang in the city.

[Bosh]

Originally posted by i beat the last giant:

i killed the goblin kids no problem

Same. Those little ♥♥♥♥♥ were going to run and get help so I shot arrows into their heads.

[Noctoculus]

Originally posted by Liguar:

I really don't get the dislike for the Tiefling kids expressed in this thread. Not just you.
I thought a bunch of them had funny interactions and i'm looking forward to seeing what happens when I find Mol's gang in the city.

I think the kid that steals some guy's locket triggered me. If you haven't seen this exchange, the guy tries to get it back, the kid denies stealing it, calling a guard for help. If you help the kid get away he snickers and taunts the guy. If you help the guy, the kid says something like "Fine, it's not worth anything anyway."

I just wanted to push the little ♥♥♥♥ off a cliff after that.