CLASS TIER LIST.

[Fast]

This is based on tactician only and pure classes only no multiclass.

S Paladin Bard
A Fighter Sorcerer Cleric
B Barbarian Ranger Warlock Monk
C Rogue
D Wizard
F Druid

[Enigmatory]

Originally posted by Fast:

Originally posted by Enigmatory:

Currently it's baseless garbage without any real examples.

It comes from the age old philosophy, if its already dead you dont need CC.

Paladin makes this happen for every boss fight, alone in many cases.
Clean up is inconsequential, fights with larger or more dangerous single enemies and a bunch of trash, the only thing you need to do is make the big enemy ded.

Paladin does this the easiest.
Beyond that it has incredible amounts of utility, self sustain, inherent advantage, and has the hardesat hitting attacks in game. It also has access to bless , and haste. Not forgetting the out of combat utility.

If you want to go beyond that, well look no further than the bard for buffs, utility, cc and being the best skill monkey in the game as well as being able to buff all your dialogues and skill checks.

Exaples don't mean pot of words about how cool paladin is. Digits. Calculations. Bless and haste both require concentration slot you can't have both in same time.
I guess you just keep saying good gentle words about paladin without any examples. So i just leave you alone. As paladin main i can forgive your defective arguments and move on.

[twitch|spider0666]

Originally posted by Fast:

Originally posted by Enigmatory:

That's not tier list he just don't played classes that's he ranked middle and lowest.

I played every class.

I tested them all across the viconia fight all enemies, raphael, and gortash, as well as Grym for combat.
I did some on myrkrul and balthazar too.

Were your builds also properly geared for that location/mobs?
All I see here is that pally looks OP in certain location. It is the hardest loc?

All I am trying to say is that measure this isnt that simple...

[Double]

Thief rogue feels broken OP at times lol. Tbf I haven't tried paladin or bard but my CC thief rogue is consistently the MVP of my party

[Revan619]

Paladin's can do some nice things with smite but are a lot less consistent than fighter and barbarian but get some nice utility. Fighter with battlemaster will out dps pretty much all the other melee classes. Barbarian has crazy survival with bear wildhart so the best tank.

Bard is a fairly nice standin for otherclasses but drops off pretty fast. Cleric is amazing with war or life domain so best utility slot. Druid can be quite useful with spells or animal form focuses for the extended hp pool.

Wizard is the best caster by far with many build options. Sorcerer is the best burst dps with quicken spell currently allowing leveled spells to be muticasted in a round. Warlock feels a little inferior being stuck to hex and eldritch blasts.

Rogue is pretty much just for skill checks or trying to get one early sneak but no where near as reliable as the other classes.

So im not sure if your tier list is for playing or just straight battles but it is wrong. Open to see what you are basing it on and what numbers you got for it.

[Pinhead Larry]

Personal Tier List just based on power scaling, based on Tactician difficulty since anything that slaps on the highest difficulty will destroy lower difficulties even easier:

S Tier: These ones can be run pure with no dips and handle all the content thrown at them.

Battlemaster Fighter. Even without multiclassing this one just destroys things. Combine this with warpriest cleric for more attacks per round plus some utility spells and you're just a walking/leaping juggernaut of a blender.

Pact of the Blade Warlock. Super potent all on it's own with the ability to use any melee weapon in the game without issue. Also pairs INCREDIBLY well with Paladin, giving insane burst damage potential with the Hex + Smite combo.

Open Palm Monk. Incredibly economical AC tank, very similar to the battle master fighter but it doesn't really completely pop off into loony tunes power until level 9, but you can basically all but literally OMAE WA SHINDERU DES people at that point, and your class resource regens on short rests. Also has really good multiclass potential with Clerics, Barbarians, and Rogues since it shares either a beneficial class feature with those or a primary/secondary stat with them. Thief Rogue + Monk = an extra bonus action and stealth potential, Cleric + Monk = Support spells (Taking even a one level dip just so you can have Shield of Faith means you can have AC as high as 24-26 depending on conditions and basically be invulnerable to anything but critical hits) Barbarian + Monk gives access to the rages and an extra attack. The monk just has so much potential and basically can fight naked, so you save tons of gold gearing them up.

Bard. It's just a sorcerer but better in every way.

A Tier: Can be run pure but fall behind S tier without dipping.

Barbarian(s). Just straight solid from start to finish, they only lose out to S tier because battlemaster fighter exists. Kinda plateaus in power around level 5, but it never falls off or gets actively worse.

Shadow Monk. This is what Thief and Assassin Rogues wish they could be. With a bit of patience, you absolutely can solo entire encounters with stealth cheese, and can have ridiculous AC values to boot if you do get caught out.

Paladin(s). These things are the tactical nukes of this game. When they hit things with their full potential, they ANNIHILATE whatever they're hitting. However, they can only do a handful of times before needing a long rest since they rely entirely on their smites. While you can absolutely run a pure paladin from start to finish, these things experience a massive power boost by dipping in to literally any other caster class that gets more spell slots per level than the paladins do. Sorcerer and Warlock are popular choices since they all share the CHA stat as their primary stat, but don't discount Clerics either, as they have some synergy that can allow the paladin to 1 turn delete nearly every boss in the game if you're willing to blow those spell slots.

Wizards. Evocation is clearly the best type, but the others are good enough as well. They are also the ONLY class that uses INT as it's primary stat, so you can cover the INT based skill checks much easier than others, some of which can be important. Their real strength is in their versatility of spells and spell slot regeneration. Metamagic just doesn't compare to the sheer range of spells you can equip yourself with on a whim.

B Tier: usable/useful with dips

Pact of Tome/Chain Warlocks. The pet from chain is basically relegated to imp and only imp since it has free ambush potential and flight, but it falls off as the game goes on. Tome is just kinda superfluous, if you want more spell variety, just roll a wizard.

Sorcerer. All fireballs, all upcast, all the time! No exceptions! This one loses out to Wizard in terms of utility and spell options, and loses out super hard to the Bard since they're both CHA casters, but the bard gets better support utility with their bardic inspirations, and better spell selection. I've also almost NEVER used metamagic except for the range increasing ones a handful of times. Metamagic is generally too niche (Twin spell barely works with ANYTHING) for the cost associated, especially with wild magic where you can use those points to get your allies free re-rolls. Works best if you dip into other CHA classes. Dragon blood sorc is also great for gish builds thanks to it's native AC buff.

Clerics. Note a lot of up front damage potential, but lots and lots of utility and healing. Unfortunately, since you can just smash your dudes in the face with healing potions, and the fact that bards also get healing powers AND a once per long rest free short rest power, clerics support abilities aren't really enough to keep up with the dedicated blasters and smashers on their own.

C Tier: Falls off as the game goes on, used as dips instead of pures

Thief and Assassin Rogues. Thief Rogue is the best and will carry itself fine up to about level 6 or 7, and then the lack of action economy quickly causes it to become a liability in combat. Assassin is just a worse version of thief where all of it's power is frontloaded in the first round or two of combat.

Ranger. The tabletop version of the ranger was notoriously underpowered, even AFTER the supposed fixes. Larian tried to buff the class and to their credit, they did... But it STILL wasn't enough to get it more than a single shift in the rankings. They're a rogue with a pet, a pet that has extremely limited utility outside the few top tier choices you get.

F tier: classes that become a liability, limited dip potential.

Druids. Wildshapes fall off too hard, and everything else they can do other classes do better by a longshot.

Arcane Trickster Rogue. This one got massacred by Larian from it's EA days where it would have been A or S tier easily, all due to the changes to Ghost Hand being a cantrip that recharges on short rest. This was the bread and butter AT Rogues used to set up their shenanigans, but now their one trick is ruined. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Larian, the whole point of cantrips is that they're free to use as much as you want! Otherwise it's not a cantrip!

Eldritch Knight. This is the only class to suffer from MAD like monks used to in 3.5. They need INT, they need STR, and they need CON, with a bit of DEX for initiative, but this game is so stingy with the stat points that in order to run an eldritch knight at all you've got two options: Forgo INT and focus only on buff/support magic for yourself since you won't be able to do much damage/hit anything with spells without the INT, or get that circlet that sets your INT to 17 and literally wear that the entire game. They're the D&D equivalent to mid-2000's hybrid cars: They aren't a car, they're a compromise-mobile that does two jobs crappy instead of one job well. A good caster does not need a melee weapon or heavy armor to be powerful, and a good fighter doesn't need spells to slice and crush your enemies.

Trash Tier: Absolute garbage, never use these, you will not have a fun time, why does this exist?

Champion Fighter. Dear God in heaven I pity the person who plays as a champion fighter. This class. This ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ class. It is so awful. The best feature it gets is also the first feature it gets, which is that it can crit on a 19 and a nat 20. That's it. You know what else it gets? Level 7 - Remarkable Athlete: Proficiency (Subclass Feature)
Level 7 - Remarkable Athlete: Jump (Subclass Feature).

That's... That's it. That's all they get. And those features are diaper fire bad. Why did Larian waste their time and resources putting this in the game? It's boring and bad on the tabletop, literally nobody likes champion fighters. They've been a joke since 5e was released, and they continue to be a joke in BG3. God I hate this class so much, it wasn't enough that it's bad and gets zero redeeming features or interesting abilities, but worse still it's BORING. It is every bad thing people have ever said about Fighters in D&D ever. I could write an entire diatribe three times the length of this post espousing my disgust and hate for Champion Fighters, THAT is how bad it is.

[Seswatha]

Originally posted by Fast:

Originally posted by Seswatha:

I mean with autocrits on all attacks if you land hold monster or similar a single class sorc easily breaks 600 dpr without much effort.

For single turn pure class sorc dpr for example:

With Helmet of Grit or Circlet of Fire + Haste or Potion of speed you can cast 4 spells per turn, upcast lvl 6 scorching ray is 7 beams, lvl 5 is 6 beams. Currently with freecast/arcane battery we can cast lvl 6 as much as we want, but even if it's fixed we should be able to cast 3. If no multiclass allowed, grab magic initiate: warlock and hex.

if we spend an action on Hold Monster, and then cast scorching ray 3 times we get 21 * ((2d6 (ray) + 1d6 (hex) + 1d4 (psionic overload)) * 2 (crit) + 5 (fire draconic sorc bonus)) = 651 damage average. You can do a bunch more with the lightning charges and there's a bunch of other items that can help if we set this up beforehand.

I'm still wondering how a Paladin can do 600+ dmg in a single turn btw unless you count high rolling all the dice instead of average.

I am actually almost in agreement but the ONE downside is, the ability score scaling in tactician makes it annoying even with +15 DC Casters inherently get weaker as the higher level enemies you fight in this game, due to stupid ability scores on enemies that cause saves rather frequently in tactician even with like 16-28DC.

The only reason sorc is not S is because of this. Compared to paladin that needs way less investment for a similar or better outcome.

Well Hat of Fire Acuity with Scorching Ray combo usually buffs your DC to high enough level to land whatever you want as the follow up. Plus there's a good number of spells that goes against AC like Scorching Ray, which with Staff of Arcane Blessing in the party are super reliable, or don't care about saves or AC at all.

[twitch|spider0666]

Originally posted by BirdOfBantz:

Originally posted by Fast:

tell me you dont know spell lists and spell DC without telling me.
The game is about 70% humanoids, 30% monsters and undead.

Bards are overrated garbage. Outclassed by Sorc and Paladin by miles.

tldr: you're wrong, but that's to be expected from this sea of reprobates.

Or you just didnt played one. And you do not know all game mechanics with bard. Try it than talk. Or gather clown rewards.

[Trapmaker]

Originally posted by Fast:

This is based on tactician only and pure classes only no multiclass.

S Paladin Bard
A Fighter Sorcerer Cleric
B Barbarian Ranger Warlock Monk
C Rogue
D Wizard
F Druid

Dont know what you're doing but fighters sorcs and barbs are definitely S tier.

[VoiD]

I'm not sure if a tier list is worth anything if you don't split the subclasses.

I mean, some are pretty much the same, but there's a world of difference between something like life, light or tempest domain clerics which could be in S tier with certain builds, and a trickery cleric that doesn't really get anything useful other than a single spell, very late in the endgame.

[yuzhonglu]

Ok, anyone who says Eldritch Knight isn't S-tier doesn't understand the mechanics.

As Eldritch Knight, YOU DON'T PUT POINTS INTO INTELLIGENCE. INSTEAD YOU PICK ALL OF THE SPELLS THAT DON'T REQUIRE INTELLIGENCE, LIKE SHIELD. An Eldritch Knight is basically a fighter with 5 extra AC.

Also, Cleric is S-tier late game due to the hero's feast spell. They can also SUMMON a flying Paladin (devas) that's a permanent team member.

[Revan619]

Originally posted by Syzygy:

I've also almost NEVER used metamagic except for the range increasing ones a handful of times. Metamagic is generally too niche

You should probably play fire draconic sorcerer with quicken spell meta magic then realise you can freely shoot multiple 8d6+cha fireballs a round. Later a 6th and 5th

[Trapmaker]

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

Ok, anyone who says Eldritch Knight isn't S-tier is just bad with the class. As Eldritch Knight, YOU DON'T PUT POINTS INTO INT. INSTEAD YOU PICK ALL OF THE SPELLS THAT DON'T REQUIRE INT, LIKE SHIELD.

Also, Cleric is S-tier late game due to the hero's feast spell.

Both battlemaster and champion are better than EK, And EK is definitely not S tier.

[Zogtar]

Originally posted by Mack:

Fighter is S tier with the amount of attacks it can get properly built.

Fighters are good, but Bards can do anything fighters can do a little worse, but then act as a face/thief/support.

[Enigmatory]

Originally posted by Seswatha:

I mean with autocrits on all attacks if you land hold monster or similar a single class sorc easily breaks 600 dpr without much effort.

For single turn pure class sorc dpr for example:

With Helmet of Grit or Circlet of Fire + Haste or Potion of speed you can cast 4 spells per turn, upcast lvl 6 scorching ray is 7 beams, lvl 5 is 6 beams. Currently with freecast/arcane battery we can cast lvl 6 as much as we want, but even if it's fixed we should be able to cast 3. If no multiclass allowed, grab magic initiate: warlock and hex.

if we spend an action on Hold Monster, and then cast scorching ray 3 times we get 21 * ((2d6 (ray) + 1d6 (hex) + 1d4 (psionic overload)) * 2 (crit) + 5 (fire draconic sorc bonus)) = 651 damage average. You can do a bunch more with the lightning charges and there's a bunch of other items that can help if we bother to use them.

I'm still wondering how a Paladin can do 600+ dmg in a single turn btw unless you count high rolling all the dice instead of average. A Paladin / Tempest cleric could at least maximize one of the smites but no idea how that happens with no multiclass.

Now that's some magical digits. Considering all rays hits(which is nearly imposible especially if enemy have high AC without Dex mod and you loosing you advantage on rolls cause of nearly melee range(you need to be in 3 m of target to get autocrits). Still considering how haste works Larian broken 5e Core itself including spellscasting. Not like i'm arguing but that's funny.

[Trapmaker]

Originally posted by Revan619:

Originally posted by Syzygy:

I've also almost NEVER used metamagic except for the range increasing ones a handful of times. Metamagic is generally too niche

You should probably play fire draconic sorcerer with quicken spell meta magic then realise you can freely shoot multiple 8d6+cha fireballs a round. Later a 6th and 5th

Or lighting drac and realize you can twin cast chain lightning and then quicken something else.