CLASS TIER LIST.

[Fast]

This is based on tactician only and pure classes only no multiclass.

S Paladin Bard
A Fighter Sorcerer Cleric
B Barbarian Ranger Warlock Monk
C Rogue
D Wizard
F Druid

[Gamer de esquerda]

Originally posted by Jimmy:

I feel like the people who rate wizards low are abhorrently bad at the game and don't even consider the synergy they have with other classes

Indeed
Though many of the wizard's most powerful spells have been very nerfed in this game, like polymorph, hypnotic pattern, fly... but wizards are still top tier, no doubt.

[yuzhonglu]

The irony is that even wizards don't want to be wizards. People who want to play wizards end up playing 1 Wizard/ 11 Sorc multiclass, LOL.

[Hippopothomas]

Druids get haste and a ton of spells and can transform for a free HP soak. Do not agree with where you have druid, sorry.

Also Conjure ele is great,

[Batailleuse]

Originally posted by Fast:

Originally posted by Seswatha:

No multiclassing limits the build space a lot.

But if talking pure class I fail to see how Paladins are S tier, in pa. You'll be at most looking at 5 attacks per round, even if you smite with all of them that's like 18d6 smites + 5 attacks burning the better half of your spell slots which is still going to be outdamaged by a 10 attacks per round Battlemaster, unless there's some crazy paladin gear I haven't found that makes this a lot better. Or a Sorc slinging 3 upcast cold or lightning spells per round on a Wet target. Auras are nice but very short range and generally not worth bunching up for.

Bard I guess can get an S tier for utility/out of combat but in combat I don't think a pure Bard carries his weight on an S tier level.

Pure necromancer Wizard with Staff of Cherished Necromancy, circlet that gives physical resistance to summoned undead and that Necromancy of Thay summon is at least an A though, maybe even S.

i also seriously doubt you've managed to find and learn all the items in this game and their implication on the builds; there's a lot and all current wikis are still missing a ton.

100% uptime advantage

technically speaking anyone can get 100% advantage with all attack roll with a single ring you find in act 2 ? if i recall. gives you disadvantage on resistance rolls tho. but if you blast a lot, it's worth the trade.

so i'm not sure i would place that as an advantage for pal only.

[Revan619]

Originally posted by Syzygy:

Originally posted by Trapmaker:

Or lighting drac and realize you can twin cast chain lightning and then quicken something else.

Yeah, but you don't get chain lightning until end game, and I judge a class based on it's performance from start to finish. Quicken is good, but it doesn't spare you those spell slots. You're doing the same or less with 2 slots what a paladin can do with 1.

You might want to learn how the classes work. Scorching ray at level 2 does 6d6 on a draconic sorc you add charisma to each beam from level 6. So that is 6d6+15. Double cast that is 12d6+30. You cast a fireball that is 8d6+5 aoe, double cast that is 16d6+10. However back to that scorching ray for each level above 2nd you do an extra 2d6+5 so a level 3 sorching ray does 8d6+20 the next level 10d6+25 ect. With invisibility on you get bonus to hit, with tadpole powers you can crit your rolls.

The double cast only costs 3 sorcery points and you can convert low level spell slots into more sorcery points to keep doing this. Even from level 6 your basic can trip does 2d8+5 which you can twin spell for 1 sorcery point to shoot two different targets.

Not to mention there are necklaces that give extra casts of fire spells. By level 6 you can cast 3 of the 6d6 versions and 3 8d6 versions plus a bonus two from items.

This isnt including the versatility you have with other spells like counter spell, haste and misty step, my sorcerer with clothes and bracers is also walking around with 18 AC with no spells needed.

[Velamont]

Monk is an S tier and I will not take no for an answer.

[Seswatha]

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

The irony is that even wizards don't want to be wizards. People who want to play wizards end up playing 1 Wizard/ 11 Sorc multiclass, LOL.

Well, there are worthwhile builds that take a decent amount of Wizard levels or even pure Wizard depending on the subclass imo:

Evocation - can do nice unblockable damage with Hex + Magic Missile combo (warlock dip or magic initiate feat, also adds INT to EB damage as well, and can add both INT and CHA as Warlock 2/EWizard 10). But is also nice even earlier for safely fireballing your party or standing in a wall of fire, without feeling bad about spending concentration slot on something you can't twin.

Abjuration - well, basically they're immortal, especially if you buff them with resistance to damage e.g. through Warding Bond. Give them Armor of Agathys and Fire Shield, go tank. Imo is the strongest Wizard subclass though your mileage may vary. Won't do insane DPR but can be made untouchable and enemies die from just looking at him.

Necromancy - Grim Harvest has great synergy with the Staff of Cherished Necromancy, basically giving you infinite heals in addition to infinite Necromancy spells. Strengthened Summons are a bit meme, that been said you can make it work (I don't consider it a power build or anything but it's a fun meme build https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Abyss_Beckoners these are pretty good and not having to control all the summons manually is a bonus in my book). Pro tip: you can carry a corpse around in your inventory for Animate Dead and 1 corpse is enough to animate all of them atm. Lvl 10 feature is useless tho, so multiclassing with another caster after lvl 6 is a good idea.

Conjuration - well, the level 10 immunity to concentration checks is great, and you get free create water to double your party's cold and lightning damage. The mid level feature is very meh though. Still concentrating on a Cloudkill with no chance of interruption is pretty neat. Overall I feel like this subclass doesn't bring enough though, unless you're really missing some other ways to cast rain.

Enchantment - With how Haste works in bg3 Hypnotic gaze is a pretty good way to stop a strong enemy and still be able to take a bunch of actions. Instinctive Charm is a mediocre reaction but better than nothing, Split Enchantment however is free Twin on all Enchantment spells, which is very powerful. Strong class from level 10, but not so much level 1-9, would only recommend with respecing.

Divination - great for fixing bad rolls though not 100% consistent. 2 & 6 are great, 10 is meh. Go to for CC, especially with a Lore Bard in the party you can make anyone fail or succeed on almost anything.

Illusion - ok, this one is pretty bad.

Transmutation - depends on how much you abuse crafting and potions I guess, they are pretty powerful but I never felt like I need to. Lvl 6 is pretty solid as it can give proficiency in CON saves or resistance to an element, so basically worth a feat. Lvl 10 is meh. Overall an odd one.



I think Evocation/Abjuration/Enchantment/Divination are the best ones, and Necro has some meme potential, especially with an Oathbreaker Paladin in the party.

[CountCapacollo]

Originally posted by Fast:

Originally posted by BirdOfBantz:

Sounds like you just haven't played the game if you think 70% are humanoids and that charm works on things that should be humanoid but arent (like devils, liches, or humanoids which are categorized as monstrosities, etc etc). Nevermind just have a flat out 30% or less chance to actually work on humanoids.

Bards are overrated garbage. Outclassed by Sorc and Paladin by miles.

tldr: you're wrong, but that's to be expected from this sea of reprobates.

WTF are u on about, between hold monster and hold person, you cover 95% of the games enemies.
Also, U can achieve +20 Spell DC on your bard or sorc and get a 95%-100% on every enemy on the game. If you didnt know.

And which one of those spells are bard specific?

Exactly.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Again, I'll say it, you don't know what you're talking about.

Bards are pointless. Get a Sorc, get a Paladin, get a Warlock. They all have overlap with bard abilities but can actually have good dps and utility without just having a totem member in the group.

You have to go far out of your way to make bard as good as those classes are by default.

Activate your brain.

[BlueBawlz]

my monk is the most damaging charter, does far better than my pally

[Mave]

Bard is kinda meh, barb has been my most damaging class. Maybe bard is better on MC but as buffer/debuffer... Let's just say that buffs/debuffs suck in this game. Also ranger 11 is really wrecking with its aoe every turn.

[Ernasty]

Champion was my favorite class but i'm really enjoying my nudist monk. Dude is butt naked and wrecking entire groups of enemies solo.

[Seswatha]

Smth like Paladin 2/WIz 2/Swords Bard 8 is gonna be a better smiter than a pure Paladin and will have great versatility from all the Wizard and Bard spells, you even get level 6 spells from scrolls. Or Just Paladin 2/Swords Bard 8 if you don't want to bother with Headband of intellect. Or Paladin 2/Fighter 2/Swords Bard 8 is also good.

Swords Bard 6/Thief 4/Fighter 2 with dual crossbows 14-15 attacks nova round with dual hand crossbows and haste depending on items. Just Swords Bard 6/Fighter 2 gets 13-14 attacks at lvl 8(!). (Ranged slashing flourish currently can target the same target, melee has to target different)

Swords Bard 6/Pact of the Blade Warlock 5/Wizard 1 - not as much single target nova but you get 7-8 attacks with just Haste consistently and can push to 13-14 with Slashing flourish albeit vs different targets. Alternatively you can get 36+ ac between high dex med armor of agility, shield, defensive flourish and shield spell. (Pact of the Blade attack stacking is probably unintentional but use it while you can)

Lore Bard 10/Divination WIzard 2 - potentially the most versatile spell list in the game, can nuke enemy saves in two different ways making it a very reliable control build (though tbh it's better to have these separately to be able to stack both Portent and Cutting Words). Though secrets currently are missing some truly broken combos unfortunately.

All of these make an excellent skill monkey too.

Pure Bard is mostly about utility though Swords bard will be reasonably fighty even without multiclass.

[Pozhinateli]

Real tier list:

S Paladin Fighter
A Barbarian Cleric Rogue
B Ranger Monk
C Rogue Warlock
D Wizard Bard Sorcerer
F Druid

[Gamer de esquerda]

Originally posted by BirdOfBantz:

Originally posted by Fast:

WTF are u on about, between hold monster and hold person, you cover 95% of the games enemies.
Also, U can achieve +20 Spell DC on your bard or sorc and get a 95%-100% on every enemy on the game. If you didnt know.

And which one of those spells are bard specific?

Exactly.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Again, I'll say it, you don't know what you're talking about.

Bards are pointless. Get a Sorc, get a Paladin, get a Warlock. They all have overlap with bard abilities but can actually have good dps and utility without just having a totem member in the group.

You have to go far out of your way to make bard as good as those classes are by default.

Activate your brain.

LOL, never read so much bs. Bards are one of the best classes of the game, because they are jacks of all trades. They can do everything, and everything they do, mostly they do very well. They have some really good damage spells (shatter, dissonant whispers, thunderwave, etc), CC spells (hypnotic pattern, confusion, etc), they can heal (mass cure wounds, healing word), they can provide support with bardic inspiration or by giving enemy disadvantage with vicious mockery, they can even tank if you enter college of valour and get a good armor and shield.

Not to mention to exceed at skill checks (getting double proficiency on 4 skills and half the bonus on all others) and being the "main face" of the group.

They also get access to even better spells at lvl 10 (6 if you choose college of lore) like fireball and haste.

Whoever finds bard a bad class don't know how to play them. Period.

[Quillithe]

Problem is best is so vague:

Best solo?
Best single round damage?
Best in a specific group of 4?
Best considering that very large parts of the game are outside of combat and skill checks there can make combat skippable or much easier?