Why are you (kind of) forced into charisma main?

[ApathicAlpaca]

Alright, clearly you CAN play any main class you like.
But chosing charisma leader (naturally) means a lot less effort spent on MANY MANY MANY ability checks related to persuasion, deception etc.
This is so annoying because, contrary to Larian's promises, you can NOT chose any group member for a conversation, it's always the one currently selected. And some especially critical conversations are even FORCED onto your main, like convincing your companions to use tadpoles, for example.
There is a button at the left bottom of dialogues that says 'chose group member' but all it does is select that one, not make him the discussion leader. Crap.


What I am getting at is, if you are serious about shaping the outcomes of discussions and the opinion of NPCs your way, you are forced into a charisma lead. Bard is the best, clearly, but stuff like sorcerer works almost as well.

I find this disappointing. I wanna play that nature-loving ranger and let smoothtalkers like warlock/bard/sorcerer take over conversations. Is that too much to ask for?

What are your thoughts on this?

[DaciValt]

8 Charisma Monk here, no issues.

Caldrin の投稿を引用：

My main has a cha of 9 but I manage just fine on rolls as with spells and other bonuses I seem to just fine.

Just for future reference if you are going under 10 you may aswell just go right down to 8 as 8 and 9 both give -1 modifier to the stat.

[sarg]

I'm having few issues with my 10 Cha main letting Wyll do much of the conversating. Of course, due to the prevalence of silly "first character seen by the other party auto-starts a conversation" a lot of times I'm trying the 10 DC checks with my main anyhow.

Somewhere in the first half or so of act 1, I picked up a buff called Favorable Beginnings and my main gets +3 to their first interaction with any particular NPC, which is typically a Persuasion check of some kind.

As for Sorc > Wizard, I think that's a mistake. BG3 just erases the biggest downsize to spell memorization, in DnD you need to camp and study your spellbook to change spells. In BG3 you just switch them out whenever you want outside of combat. So there's no need to memorize Feather Fall ... you just swap Feather Fall in, jump into the pit, swap Feather Fall out. I almost always prefer spontaneous casters in DnD, but in BG3, memorized casters are just better.

I actually think the bigger issue is Sleight of Hand. Sure if you want to drag Astarion around or play a rogue yourself it's fine. But if you don't, you need good DEX on your main because there's locks and traps everywhere. Definitely a big issue if you wanted to use CHA as your secondary stat.

[Giganx]

I think the whole option to have different characters be the face is dumb; every conversation should default to your MC.

I mean, what ACTUALLY is the point of having a custom MC if the whole time you're playing as a party member?

[DaciValt]

sarg の投稿を引用：

I actually think the bigger issue is Sleight of Hand. Sure if you want to drag Astarion around or play a rogue yourself it's fine. But if you don't, you need good DEX on your main because there's locks and traps everywhere. Definitely a big issue if you wanted to use CHA as your secondary stat.

Whilst you have a point everyone builds at least some dex for a +modifer.... well apart from tavern brawler monk I guess.

Whilst it wouldn't be as good as rogue with its expertise a +2 modifier with a proficiency should be enough to give anyone a fair decent slight of hand boost if they want it.

Ofc that doesn't make your point irrelevant but building into charisma when its not a class stat is ofc going to reduce other things that might be more helpful. Not just slight of hand it's also reducing your armour class for a modifier to dialogue.

[Revan619]

Party leaders always tend to be face characters

[x_equals_speed]

I've got a Cha 10 main, but selected persuasion as a proficient skill and always have a guidance to hand. That gets me through most things. I try not to savescum but do make use of inspiration rerolls - the decisions of whether this particular dialogue was worth it feel meaningful.

[DaciValt]

In reality I would argue this is a player mindset more than anything.

Sure having a party leader with charisma comes with benefits.... but so does having a party leader that's great with slight of hand, perception or insight none of which are charisma based this goes on to dex, strength and int or hell even class and race checks too.

It's not the be all and end all of dialogue.

This is only ever feels forced if the player is not interested in looking for other options outside of passing a persuasion check.

[Edstyles]

I kind of agree on this but honestly its nothing new . Charisma has always been the better choice in games so its not limited to baldurs gate.

[Steefy_92]

You are not forced though. My monk has like 9-10 Charisma (without booster feasts) and I don't have problems you described, as people said, you are doing something wrong. I can Monkish my way out of 90% things with Wisd rolls on Persuasion

In fact why I like BG3 is because my low charisma TaV can get by without it. There are so many ways you composite for the lack of it, it just depends what you are doing.

Heck I even convinced them to use toadpods, all of them (expect Halsin who can't, without any persuade modifiers with my low Char, near the start of Act II

And put all that aside you have skills that can boost your chances, that can be purchased as scrolls or potions, if you don't have support char or item to bolster them

The game doesn't punish your choices, and I stay by that, because I made plenty of suboptimal ones and never felt like, oh damn, I will have to re-roll from scratch everything.

Sure some things will be harder, based on what you do and some stats are straight more useful in various situation, rather than being situational, but overall you can really do whatever you want, even at the cost of having to do a bit extra in some cases.

[Elendir Blue]

Ranger (CH10), I took "guild artisan" for "persuade" proficiency. It makes your chances for persuasion high.

[Giganx]

ApathicAlpaca の投稿を引用：

What I am getting at is, if you are serious about shaping the outcomes of discussions and the opinion of NPCs your way, you are forced into a charisma lead.

That's kind of the point. If you WANT to progress through the game by manipulating conversations and controlling their outcomes, then you play a class that specializes in that.

A group led by a Barbarian should be bullying people and dropping bodies to get their way, while a Rogue or Bard led group will charm and deceive their way through these situations. It's what gives each playthrough flavor.

I always lead conversations with my MC and let his proficiencies and personality dictate how things play out. This game does have a lot of class and proficiency specific dialogue options/checks, and you miss out on them if you're using the same CHA character to have every conversation in every playthrough.

[➕⁺+₊ ⁺]

BARBARIAN INTIMIDATION BONK FTW!

[Poop King]

If you play custom tav and pick guild artisan, you can have intimidation, persuasion, deception and insight all proficient.

You can put 14 or 10 in wisdom for the insight if you want. I've gone 8 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 10 wis, 8 int, 17 cha, and level 4 +2 cha and +! hag reward for 20 Cha, and drow race so also perception, but 10 wisdom so meh, Insight if ever needed can be save scummed and it isnt as common as the CHA skills.

Also I don't have deception proficiency as I went Dark Urge so your background is stuck as intimidation and medicine.

[Astronimo]

Not really. Charisma is good ONLY for good run. Some bosses can be convinced to kill themselves btw.
However, if do NOT want a FULL good run OR you want other ways of playing the good run - you can whatever you want.
As an example, Wizards have high intellect, thus, when they skill check investigation, they can have their own ways to do stuff peacefully or get good reward.

Yes, Charisma characters suit better for clean good guy. But not essential for it.

[fildur]

Agreed 100%, hopefully they fix this.