Do the Way of the Open Hand abilities work?

[philosoraptorgames]

I'm a D&D veteran and well aware of the importance of the dice in any D&D based game. I promise this isn't just another person who doesn't understand math whining about the fact that they sometimes miss.

But my Way of the Open Hand monk has used the options this subclass gives for augmenting your Flurry of Blows about 12-15 times and not one single time have the extra effects worked. I have yet to successfully prone, stagger, or shove a single enemy using these options. Everything else seems to work at about the expected ratio, just not these specific abilities.

Additionally, there is no mention of them in the log. Then again, it doesn't seem to track Flurry attacks at all, at least not consistently.

Is there a known bug involving these abilities, or some non-obvious trick to making them work?

[x_equals_speed]

I've not played way of the open hand, but have you mouse-over'd the battle log after using them? Are the enemies rolling the saves?

[gooska.]

They work fine for me. At least the prone/push 2. Never used the stagger(?) one.

[Ryder 🗲]

That sub-class gives new skills that do these actions rather than the flurry of blows skill getting augmented. They might be missing from your hot bar. You can open your spellbook (press "K" I believe) and drag/drop the skills.

[Aranador]

I have difinitely knocked foes prone with the open hand monk - I dont usually use the other abilities though.

[Ihateeverybody]

I have used Topple Successfully, no real use for the other 2 (though I have no idea what stagger one does).

If you went dex I would point that being the major culprit. I recommend you at least trying a Respec into STR (with Tavern Brawler) and see if that solves your problem. You can always revert to a previous save if it doesn't or you want to do further testing.

[GrandMajora]

Playing Way of the Open Hand for my Dark Urge.

Beating the ♥♥♥♥ out of any poor fool who comes within arm's reach of me.

[Angarvin]

there is no trick that i'm aware of. i also don't think it's bugged since my monk prones his targets on a (somewhat) regular basis.
the dc check is dictated by your wisdom so you must have it high. the opposing check is dictated by strenght, so high str enemies will be highly resistant.

imo, even tho larian buffed monks significantly, it was done in a haphazard way:
unlike other martial classes monks still have no way to apply +attack and damage buffs that come from enchanted weapons to their fist attacks.
they also, unlike spellcasters, don't have any way to increase their dc check outside of wis increase, which can only go so far.

thus monks feel ok and even strong in early game, when magic items are few and weak, but start falling short after midpoint, when martials are getting their +2s and spellcasters are able to reach 20+ dc.

[x_equals_speed]

I find my monk/rogue keeps up pretty well. I do use a monk weapon, because why wouldn't you want the bonuses a magic item can provide on your main attack? The unarmed stuff only applies to my bonus action attacks which is weaker than the main attack as a result, but that's okay, since they only cost a bonus action to do (and I've got two of those so a double-flurry will make up for a bit less accuracy and damage by sheer volume)

[pihwht]

I'm surprised when they don't work even when I don't expect them to succeed like toppling an ogre. Lvl 4 and maybe they've failed three or four times. Topple-strike-crit.

[PocketYoda]

I'm not sure i went shadow monk? Remember to take that Bar brawling feat at lvl 5

Originally posted by x_equals_speed:

I find my monk/rogue keeps up pretty well. I do use a monk weapon, because why wouldn't you want the bonuses a magic item can provide on your main attack? The unarmed stuff only applies to my bonus action attacks which is weaker than the main attack as a result, but that's okay, since they only cost a bonus action to do (and I've got two of those so a double-flurry will make up for a bit less accuracy and damage by sheer volume)

Same i'm Monk/ rogue, i found a flaming staff and i seem to kick ass

[Pitty Sensual]

Originally posted by Angarvin:

there is no trick that i'm aware of. i also don't think it's bugged since my monk prones his targets on a (somewhat) regular basis.
the dc check is dictated by your wisdom so you must have it high. the opposing check is dictated by strenght, so high str enemies will be highly resistant.

imo, even tho larian buffed monks significantly, it was done in a haphazard way:
unlike other martial classes monks still have no way to apply +attack and damage buffs that come from enchanted weapons to their fist attacks.
they also, unlike spellcasters, don't have any way to increase their dc check outside of wis increase, which can only go so far.

thus monks feel ok and even strong in early game, when magic items are few and weak, but start falling short after midpoint, when martials are getting their +2s and spellcasters are able to reach 20+ dc.

It become a beast in end game.
(Btw OP, everthing works fine, even stagger)
Mine has 29~58 unarmed damage, and 20 AC, 4 hits per turn, biggest dps of my party (Thief Rogue[and bit fighter], Rogue Gloomstalker[and bit fighter], EvoGale and the master piece Monk Rogue Fighter lol)

[Angarvin]

Originally posted by Pitty Sensual:

Originally posted by Angarvin:

there is no trick that i'm aware of. i also don't think it's bugged since my monk prones his targets on a (somewhat) regular basis.
the dc check is dictated by your wisdom so you must have it high. the opposing check is dictated by strenght, so high str enemies will be highly resistant.

imo, even tho larian buffed monks significantly, it was done in a haphazard way:
unlike other martial classes monks still have no way to apply +attack and damage buffs that come from enchanted weapons to their fist attacks.
they also, unlike spellcasters, don't have any way to increase their dc check outside of wis increase, which can only go so far.

thus monks feel ok and even strong in early game, when magic items are few and weak, but start falling short after midpoint, when martials are getting their +2s and spellcasters are able to reach 20+ dc.

It become a beast in end game.
(Btw OP, everthing works fine, even stagger)
Mine has 29~58 unarmed damage, and 20 AC, 4 hits per turn, biggest dps of my party (Thief Rogue[and bit fighter], Rogue Gloomstalker[and bit fighter], EvoGale and the master piece Monk Rogue Fighter lol)

i have a late game monk. and while his damage on paper sounds nice, in practice when compared to the other party members, he underperforms because he misses a lot more than them.
https://i.imgur.com/N7zJXc6.jpg
- with +11 to hit it's essentially a 50/50 whether or not he'll hit an actual enemy (someone with 20+ ac) so that big number damage gets cut in half.
- with 17 dc he can't consistently control enemies since average check bonus is around +9.
- and at 21 ac he also has less survavibility than any other member of my party.
for comparison here's end game ranger tank with all phys resist and flat -5 to all damage:
https://i.imgur.com/ThsVOdK.jpg
control bard with 25 dc:
https://i.imgur.com/gxDbo7O.jpg
and dd battle master that only misses on 1:
https://i.imgur.com/RvI2GPu.jpg

thus, pretty much like in pnp, monk struggles with his role because he has none. at high level he's painfully average at everything. whatever he does - others can do better.
and the saddest thing is: this issue shouldn't exist because it's been solved for years now in pathfinder. with hand wraps. you use hand wraps to provide enchantment bonus for monks, giving them their weapon slot, thus enabling them to itemise on par with other classes.

monk is great early game. he essentially carried me till level 5. and he's perfectly fine till level 8. but afterwards he starts to struggle. at 12 he's either reduced to chaff enemy duty or needs to be enabled.

at least that's my experience. mb i missed some crucial items somewhere, but i highly doubt it.

[rservello]

Originally posted by philosoraptorgames:

I'm a D&D veteran and well aware of the importance of the dice in any D&D based game. I promise this isn't just another person who doesn't understand math whining about the fact that they sometimes miss.

But my Way of the Open Hand monk has used the options this subclass gives for augmenting your Flurry of Blows about 12-15 times and not one single time have the extra effects worked. I have yet to successfully prone, stagger, or shove a single enemy using these options. Everything else seems to work at about the expected ratio, just not these specific abilities.

Additionally, there is no mention of them in the log. Then again, it doesn't seem to track Flurry attacks at all, at least not consistently.

Is there a known bug involving these abilities, or some non-obvious trick to making them work?

I've gotten stagger a good number of times. Push has worked a few times. Never gotten prone tho. I think that's a harder save tho. BUT I also have a single class Monk. Split class diludes skills.

[Pitty Sensual]

Originally posted by Angarvin:

Originally posted by Pitty Sensual:

It become a beast in end game.
(Btw OP, everthing works fine, even stagger)
Mine has 29~58 unarmed damage, and 20 AC, 4 hits per turn, biggest dps of my party (Thief Rogue[and bit fighter], Rogue Gloomstalker[and bit fighter], EvoGale and the master piece Monk Rogue Fighter lol)

i have a late game monk. and while his damage on paper sounds nice, in practice when compared to the other party members, he underperforms because he misses a lot more than them.
https://i.imgur.com/N7zJXc6.jpg
with +11 to hit it's essentially a 50/50 whether or not he'll hit an actual enemy (someone with 20+ ac) so that big number damage gets cut in half
with 17 dc he can't consistently control enemies since average check bonus is around +9
and at 21 ac he also has less survavibility than other member of my party
for comparison here's end game ranger tank with all phys resist and flat -5 to all damage:
https://i.imgur.com/ThsVOdK.jpg
control bard with 25 dc:
https://i.imgur.com/gxDbo7O.jpg
and dd battle master that only misses on 1:
https://i.imgur.com/RvI2GPu.jpg

thus, pretty much like in pnp, monk struggles with his role because he has none. he's painfully average at everything. whatever he does - others can do better.
and the saddest thing is: this issue shouldn't exist because it's been solved for years now in pathfinder. with arm wraps. you use arms wraps to provide enchantment bonus for monks giving them their weapon slot, thus enabling them to itemise on par with other classes.
monk is great early game. he essentially carried me till level 5. and he's perfectly fine till level 8. but afterwards he starts to struggle. at 12 he's either reduced to chaff enemy duty or needs to be enabled.

at least that's my experience. mb i missed some crucial items somewhere but i highly doubt it.

I mean, in my opinion the problem is in the build you choose, im multiclassing, i have 18dc with advantage, my monk never miss.

Im in the middle of the combat, so he is using giant hill, thats why 27 str, but he has 24

https://imgur.com/a/6Xft6bB

[Angarvin]

Originally posted by Pitty Sensual:

Originally posted by Angarvin:

i have a late game monk. and while his damage on paper sounds nice, in practice when compared to the other party members, he underperforms because he misses a lot more than them.
https://i.imgur.com/N7zJXc6.jpg
with +11 to hit it's essentially a 50/50 whether or not he'll hit an actual enemy (someone with 20+ ac) so that big number damage gets cut in half
with 17 dc he can't consistently control enemies since average check bonus is around +9
and at 21 ac he also has less survavibility than other member of my party
for comparison here's end game ranger tank with all phys resist and flat -5 to all damage:
https://i.imgur.com/ThsVOdK.jpg
control bard with 25 dc:
https://i.imgur.com/gxDbo7O.jpg
and dd battle master that only misses on 1:
https://i.imgur.com/RvI2GPu.jpg

thus, pretty much like in pnp, monk struggles with his role because he has none. he's painfully average at everything. whatever he does - others can do better.
and the saddest thing is: this issue shouldn't exist because it's been solved for years now in pathfinder. with arm wraps. you use arms wraps to provide enchantment bonus for monks giving them their weapon slot, thus enabling them to itemise on par with other classes.
monk is great early game. he essentially carried me till level 5. and he's perfectly fine till level 8. but afterwards he starts to struggle. at 12 he's either reduced to chaff enemy duty or needs to be enabled.

at least that's my experience. mb i missed some crucial items somewhere but i highly doubt it.

I mean, in my opinion the problem is in the build you choose, im multiclassing, i have 18dc with advantage, my monk never miss.

Im in the middle of the combat, so he is using giant hill, thats why 27 str, but he has 24

https://imgur.com/a/6Xft6bB

ngl i find it kinda funny that you claim monk becomes a beast while having only half of a monk.

you also showcase having advantage which, from what i can see, comes from hiding, which costs an action or a bonus action, which in turn reduces the amount of strikes you can put out. i also don't even know why you do it since you only have 10 dex, which governs stealth.

am i missing something?

also why mage armor? it's 13+ dex which in your case is 0, so simply 13. while unarmored defense gives 10+ dex +wis so 14 in your case.
mage armor literally does nothing, no?