Is dueling fighting style doomed to suck ?

[Kyros]

I'm trying to think of a way to make a dueling fighting style deal good damage but knowing Larian since DoS:2, it's dualwield/2H or gtfo.

I'm currently wondering about battlemaster and paladin, I do not know which one would be better for this fighting style and deal good damage. I don't mind if it's a few numbers behind 2H, so long as it's not heavily shooting myself in the foot.

Can anyone with more DND knowledge help me ?
Been pondering this question for days now and I still can't make up my mind !

[hannibal_pjv]

It depends… Dueling fighting style is good to character that can not wield a shield… like monks. If you can get fightins styles, like fighter or sword bard, you can get dual wield fighting style that is really nice! If you can not, wearing shield is more likely better option. Unles you don´t need your bonus action to something else… (monk again)

[Settings]

A thread earlier had a ton of people saying dueling was so insanely superior to dualwield. IDK WHO TO BELIEVE

[Szorrin]

Dual Wielding is actually the lesser of the three because of action economy. You're using a bonus action to take a single extra swing with your off-hand weapon. Most classes have much better options to use their bonus actions on. Meanwhile Duelling gives you a guaranteed +2 damage on every attack. By the time you're level 5 and get Extra Attack, it outshines Dual Wielding in damage, and you can use a shield for +2AC (+3AC later in the game).

[Mr.Hmm]

Originally posted by ᛊᚨᛁᛚᛟᚱ ᛗᛟᛟᚾ:

A thread earlier had a ton of people saying dueling was so insanely superior to dualwield. IDK WHO TO BELIEVE

It depends on the situation to be honest.

[VoiD]

I don't have much D&D knowledge, but, from what I understand, once you pick up a dueling style you'll be hitting for damage numbers very close to 2h weapons, 2 handers also have some great feats in their favor, sure, but having dex as your primary offensive stat doubling down as a defensive stat also has it's merits.

I'd risk saying dueling is a very good/viable option, just like 2handers, the only one I haven't managed to make it work, both in theory or practice, is dual wielding, wasting a bonus action, and having a fighting style AND a feat requirement just to make it somewhat viable is too much when every other fighting style can also use their bonus actions to deal more damage, just like dual wielders, by using extra attacks (pommel strike, polearm mastery, hunter's mark, hex, etc..), applying poison to your blade, pushing people off cliffs, class attacks (like berserker), or even a full on 2h strike after you kill or crit with 2handers and their feat.

I just don't see any advantages to dual wielding other than looking cool.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Szorrin:

Dual Wielding is actually the lesser of the three because of action economy. You're using a bonus action to take a single extra swing with your off-hand weapon. Most classes have much better options to use their bonus actions on. Meanwhile Duelling gives you a guaranteed +2 damage on every attack. By the time you're level 5 and get Extra Attack, it outshines Dual Wielding in damage, and you can use a shield for +2AC (+3AC later in the game).

This. Not to mention that there's even more stuff competing for your bonus action in BG3 specifically.

[Sentient_Toaster]

PAM fighters also want to use their bonus action. Actually, given that Larian apparently decided that making Shove a basic bonus action was the thing to do, that's potentially accessible to anybody with a decent Athletics stat.

Dueling isn't a top-tier style for damage output, but think of it this way: for a non-critical hit, +2 damage is basically a shift in two die sizes (1d8 -> 1d112, first is average 4.5, second is average 6.5) in terms of impact on average damage per hit.

It's not going to keep up in damage with, say, a recklessly-attacking or precision-attacking PAM+GWM glaive/halberd user; or an archery fighting style, sharpshooter, ranged build (that +2 to attack makes Archery fighting style superb), because the -5/+10 options are huge if you can stack the deck re: hit chance.

Dual wield is generally meh in tabletop, mostly relevant for rogues that want to be able to use their bonus action to get another shot at a sneak attack if they whiff the attack with their first action.

[Zouls]

dueling: +2 damage which means that the mean of a 1d8 + 5 is the same as 1d12 + 3 (assuming 16 str or dex) and looking like this

https://gyazo.com/d63388c1620f209e5218b8e37358e3e6

however that is with feat vs no feat to start with.

you can take https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Defensive+Duelist to add profeciency bonus to ac, meaning more than a shield, but only for one attack and could be used with dualwield instead.

The build i wanted to do, and im not saying this is good, is 2 paladin for divine smite then into bard of swords which unlocks the duelist fighting style, allowing you to take another for paladin, and using the spell slots of bard to smite and using the sword bard fighting style to attack two enemies at once.

however that also gives up the asi or feat at that level. so meh.

Basically its not horrdenous, but you are essentially throwing way your fighting style benefit to match a twohand weapon, with very little benefit to having an open hand (which i think is a problem in 5e and in turn bg3)

basically you can do it, if everything gets ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up you can respec for a measly 100g anyways so no real harm in trying.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Zouls:

Basically its not horrdenous, but you are essentially throwing way your fighting style benefit to match a twohand weapon, with very little benefit to having an open hand (which i think is a problem in 5e and in turn bg3)

You can use a shield with Dueling style. It only requires that your other hand not be wielding a weapon.

[Icedfate]

dual wielding has always been my favorite and i hate how 5e nerfed it, that you have to use up your bonus action with the off hand and only ever get the 1 attack.
so as soon as you hit level 5 and get that extra attack, bam, dualwielding is suddenly worse than just being able to attack twice with a 2H weapon.

exacerbated further is if they have that feat that lets you reroll all 1's on your damage dice with 2h weps.

i had a friend who did paladin/sorceror and great weapons and had that feat and their sorcerer spell slots were there to fuel the smites whenever they hit, they got to roll a zillion dice and reroll all 1's and it was insane.

someone above suggested dual wielding on a rogue, but rogue has too many other things that they need to save their bonus action for. .

edit : looking it up, what i was referring to was great weapons fighting style.
i honestly never considered dueling style, because i assumed it was the worst one.

i once made a fighter with defense style and had 21 AC at level 1 and everyone at the table thought i cheated, because like it shouldn't be that high(?) and then i explained what i did. .




variant human. started with 16 DEX for the +3
as my feat, i took medium armor master.
with half plat i then got 15+3= 18 +2 from a shield +1 from defensive style.

i guess that's why so many folks hate variant human. dunno if variant human is even in this game.

[Willcutus]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

You can use a shield with Dueling style. It only requires that your other hand not be wielding a weapon.

This is the right answer. Dueling works with a shield, and it's great. Sword Bard/Fighter with Dueling+Defensive is working really well for me.

[Evas a tahw!]

Originally posted by Please wear a helmet:

I'm trying to think of a way to make a dueling fighting style deal good damage but knowing Larian since DoS:2, it's dualwield/2H or gtfo.

I'm currently wondering about battlemaster and paladin, I do not know which one would be better for this fighting style and deal good damage. I don't mind if it's a few numbers behind 2H, so long as it's not heavily shooting myself in the foot.

Can anyone with more DND knowledge help me ?
Been pondering this question for days now and I still can't make up my mind !

Isnt the main poblem that both attacks count as a action+ bonus action

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

It's decent damage and better AC, if it did as much damage as a 2-hd, then what would be the point of 2-hd'rs?

[Zouls]

Originally posted by VoiD:

I don't have much D&D knowledge, but, from what I understand, once you pick up a dueling style you'll be hitting for damage numbers very close to 2h weapons, 2 handers also have some great feats in their favor, sure, but having dex as your primary offensive stat doubling down as a defensive stat also has it's merits.

I'd risk saying dueling is a very good/viable option, just like 2handers, the only one I haven't managed to make it work, both in theory or practice, is dual wielding, wasting a bonus action, and having a fighting style AND a feat requirement just to make it somewhat viable is too much when every other fighting style can also use their bonus actions to deal more damage, just like dual wielders, by using extra attacks (pommel strike, polearm mastery, hunter's mark, hex, etc..), applying poison to your blade, pushing people off cliffs, class attacks (like berserker), or even a full on 2h strike after you kill or crit with 2handers and their feat.

I just don't see any advantages to dual wielding other than looking cool.

although the interesting thing to note that isnt often mentioned is that bg3 has alooooot more interesting 1hand weapons including magic ones than 5e would normally allow.

The dualwielder feat at level 4 allows you to dualwield non light weapons and gives +1 bonus to AC when doing it, the two weapon fighting style allows you to use your ability mod on the second attack

since rogue uses sneak only as an action i wouldnt do that, if i were to dualwield i would go strength champion fighter, prob a half orc and try to critfish while utilizing the benefits that you gain from wearing full plate (ac) and the special effects of weapons.

[Kyros]

Didn't expect so many replies !

What would you say is best for raw damage with a 1hander user ? So far, to me it seems it's either Fighter/Battlemaster for the many extra attacks or paladin for smite burst. I would try Bard but it's really not my RP jam at all. Buit judging by some replies, Paladin would help with the DPS output in fights.

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

It's decent damage and better AC, if it did as much damage as a 2-hd, then what would be the point of 2-hd'rs?

more reach and still higher damage, usually games balance it with having 1handers being much faster to make up for it. Sadly, there's none of that here.