Could the story be about the doom of Illithids (Adversary)?

[Lamiosa]

Warning of potential spoilers (Even as it is only theory).

There are many hints that the Mindflayer on the Nautiloid is much different from normal Illithids. First he is flying in daylight, but Illithids do not like daylight at all. Also he seems to be the only one alive there and no elder brain is present. The way the tadpoles work for the protagonists are very different from normal tadpoles. It very much seems to me to be the Adversary and like he is trying to develope some kind of symbiosis between the host and tadpole, than the normal society of destroying the host and serving an elder brain.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

They can have small parts of the personalities getting back from the hosts. However they are seen as very dangerous and tried to be get rid off, since they do not want an Illithid with parts of personality of it's host to be united to the elder brain.

Yup, the prophecy states that the illithid who emerges with its host personality intact will go on to destroy their race. so they are VERY paranoid about that. If one shows signs of retaining any of the host's personality traits, they are killed right there on the spot.

Originally posted by 🜭:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Yes, but the Elder Brain can immediately subsume control over them if they come within range of its psychic powers. Illithid are connected to each other via a hive mind. Whatever one of them knows, they ALL know. If one of them is trying to break away from the collective, the rest of the colony will sense it and immediately mind blast them to death.

I've read somewhere, it's on the internet :P, that some Illithid still have memories or retain parts of their host (not in it's entirety, like the Adversary would). And they live a life in suppression, until perhaps (i'm filling it in here) the opportunity arises to break away.

Okay, I'm confused. Who is this "Adversary" character? You previously talked about them like they were different from the one foretold in the prophecy, but now you're saying that they would fully retain their host's personality?

The prophecy which I mentioned refers to an illithid who emerges from ceramorphosis with the host's personality fully intact. From there, they decide to go rogue and eventually bring about the destruction of the illithid race.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by 🜭:

That is true I think. It seems really rare to actually see a nautiloid - I thought I've read somewhere they lost the technology (paraphrasing). I remember realising that this ship is very unusual and very special.

Nautiloids don't just have the ability to travel across planes, they can travel across the crystal spheres (different settings of D&D).

In other words, they allow the illithids to travel across the D&D multiverse. Jumping between Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, est.

[Lamiosa]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

They can have small parts of the personalities getting back from the hosts. However they are seen as very dangerous and tried to be get rid off, since they do not want an Illithid with parts of personality of it's host to be united to the elder brain.

Yup, the prophecy states that the illithid who emerges with its host personality intact will go on to destroy their race. so they are VERY paranoid about that. If one shows signs of retaining any of the host's personality traits, they are killed right there on the spot.

Originally posted by 🜭:

I've read somewhere, it's on the internet :P, that some Illithid still have memories or retain parts of their host (not in it's entirety, like the Adversary would). And they live a life in suppression, until perhaps (i'm filling it in here) the opportunity arises to break away.

Okay, I'm confused. Who is this "Adversary" character? You previously talked about them like they were different from the one foretold in the prophecy, but now you're saying that they would fully retain their host's personality?

The prophecy which I mentioned refers to an illithid who emerges from ceramorphosis with the host's personality fully intact. From there, they decide to go rogue and eventually bring about the destruction of the illithid race.

Just speaking for myself: I mean the Adversary of the Prophecy who brings destruction to the Illithids. However Prophecies can also be stopped or twisted, as maybe Shar tries to.

[Raï 𓆣]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Okay, I'm confused. Who is this "Adversary" character? You previously talked about them like they were different from the one foretold in the prophecy, but now you're saying that they would fully retain their host's personality?

The prophecy which I mentioned refers to an illithid who emerges from ceramorphosis with the host's personality fully intact. From there, they decide to go rogue and eventually bring about the destruction of the illithid race.

No, I'm talking about the same character from the prophecies, I just don't know anything substantial about them. To retain a personality of the host means the same as emerging with the host's personality in tact ;) if not, then... oops. English is not my first language.

I do separate the other unfortunate mindflayers from the Adversary (this is a character from a prophecy). I've read that mindflayers can retain parts of their hosts, such as likes and dislikes, memories and personality traits. The could even retain the hosts hobbies.

But they live in suppression, whilst in the presence of others. Perhaps so hardcore, that they forget themselves? It's not fully intact, not fully autonomous or rebellious either - they aren't the Adversary - they (and how many could there be? That's the interesting part of it) live a life where they have locked these away, like dark, deep secrets that their kin shouldn't know about.

[Lamiosa]

If they would play out the Prophecy and divine intervention of Shar, they would at least bring it at the same level as about the Bhaalspawn in BG1 and BG2. If it would just be a "got rid of tadpole and fought some, done", it would be really boring game and if they would let the MC die with the tadpole taking control, it would be same bad story like in Cyberpunk 2077. "The hero dies at end like a normal peasant, no matter what you do" are the most sucking stories most often.

[Яeplicant]

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

If they would play out the Prophecy and divine intervention of Shar, they would at least bring it at the same level as about the Bhaalspawn in BG1 and BG2. If it would just be a "got rid of tadpole and fought some, done", it would be really boring game and if they would let the MC die with the tadpole taking control, it would be same bad story like in Cyberpunk 2077. "The hero dies at end like a normal peasant, no matter what you do" are the most sucking stories most often.

Then again, it fits with 2077's theme and setting. V's basically just a normal guy or gal and expecting a happy ending or something grander would be, I'd say, out of place. Like Max Payne, he should've died but he got somewhat happy ending in 3 instead and that still bugs me to this day. Him dying would've made 3 a lot more memorable but oh well. Perhaps the upcoming remakes of 1 and 2 will make me forget that.

As for BG3, I suspect the story itself will not be focusing on the illithid. If the datamined story bits are true, we're probably going to see a grander plot aka involving the Dead Three as Withers may or may not be Jergal who was imprisoned by Helm. Of course, there's also this whole thing of a datamined model of a Slayer.

None of it has been confirmed and should be taken with a grain of salt, obviously. It would be too on the nose for the story to just be focused on the Squid Bros™ with a dash of Descent to Avernus. We'll have to see, I guess.

[Lamiosa]

Originally posted by Яeplicant:

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

If they would play out the Prophecy and divine intervention of Shar, they would at least bring it at the same level as about the Bhaalspawn in BG1 and BG2. If it would just be a "got rid of tadpole and fought some, done", it would be really boring game and if they would let the MC die with the tadpole taking control, it would be same bad story like in Cyberpunk 2077. "The hero dies at end like a normal peasant, no matter what you do" are the most sucking stories most often.

Then again, it fits with 2077's theme and setting. V's basically just a normal guy or gal and expecting a happy ending or something grander would be, I'd say, out of place. Like Max Payne, he should've died but he got somewhat happy ending in 3 instead and that still bugs me to this day. Him dying would've made 3 a lot more memorable but oh well. Perhaps the upcoming remakes of 1 and 2 will make me forget that. :lunar2019grinningpig:

As for BG3, I suspect the story itself will not be focusing on the illithid. If the datamined story bits are true, we're probably going to see a grander plot aka involving the Dead Three as Withers may or may not be Jergal who was imprisoned by Helm. Of course, there's also this whole thing of a datamined model of a Slayer.

None of it has been confirmed and should be taken with a grain of salt, obviously. It would be too on the nose for the story to just be focused on the Squid Bros™ with a dash of Descent to Avernus. We'll have to see, I guess.

Games where the player dies in the end, no matter what are worse to me. If someone would have spoilered this to me, I would never have bought Cyberpunk 2077. Basically it gives the message "no matter what you do, you will die anyway". It is really depressiv to people who have for example a serious illness, trying to do not give up hope.

I highly doubt they will force this on people in BG3. There should at least always be a slight chance you can survive, even if it would mean to betray everyone or not "becomming a hero".

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

Games where the player dies in the end, no matter what are worse to me.

I think it can be handled well, but it takes setup.

Examples - obviously spoilers:

Planescape: Torment is a great one, also Outer Wilds

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

If they would play out the Prophecy and divine intervention of Shar, they would at least bring it at the same level as about the Bhaalspawn in BG1 and BG2. If it would just be a "got rid of tadpole and fought some, done", it would be really boring game and if they would let the MC die with the tadpole taking control, it would be same bad story like in Cyberpunk 2077. "The hero dies at end like a normal peasant, no matter what you do" are the most sucking stories most often.

To be fair, that was kind of a major theme of the Cyberpunk setting. There's a reason why most 'legends' of Night City are dead. It's supposed to take place in a dystopian future, where the world is dominated by international mega corporations.

[Trap Queen 85]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

But that would even make more sense, that he is rogue, because a lone Illithid is flying on a vessel, risking it's destruction, although it is the most valuable thing for Illithids.

Mmm, is he alone though? Remember that by the time we get to the bridge, there is still at least one other mind flayer helping to defend the nautiloid from attack. There is that one pod next to Shadowheart's chamber which turns a prisoner into a fellow mind flayer, and there's yet a 4th one trapped under the rubble who was mind controlling the fishermen to dig it out.

The fact these mind flayers were conducting strange experiments on their prisoners is not exactly new. Mind flayers have a reputation for messing with their captives and producing unforeseen side effects. Such as the creation of the Duergar, and possibly awakening psychic powers in the Githyanki.

I was under the assumption that he wasn't rogue but that the other fallen Illithids are dead for some other reason which is why he needs to run to the city to try to replenish the crew. One outstanding question is how he wouldn't have realized that Shadowheart possesed the artifact and was that artifacts proximity the reason why our tadpoles are different in terms of it's inability to influence us the way it does with the followers of the absolute.

[spamfilter32]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

If they would play out the Prophecy and divine intervention of Shar, they would at least bring it at the same level as about the Bhaalspawn in BG1 and BG2. If it would just be a "got rid of tadpole and fought some, done", it would be really boring game and if they would let the MC die with the tadpole taking control, it would be same bad story like in Cyberpunk 2077. "The hero dies at end like a normal peasant, no matter what you do" are the most sucking stories most often.

To be fair, that was kind of a major theme of the Cyberpunk setting. There's a reason why most 'legends' of Night City are dead. It's supposed to take place in a dystopian future, where the world is dominated by international mega corporations.

So the setting is today.

[Lamiosa]

Originally posted by spamfilter32:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

To be fair, that was kind of a major theme of the Cyberpunk setting. There's a reason why most 'legends' of Night City are dead. It's supposed to take place in a dystopian future, where the world is dominated by international mega corporations.

So the setting is today.

But is not for everyone. Some people like to strive for hope and not like "no matter what you do, you will lose anyway". It is more than just depressing. Most people like progression with an outcome that rewards the player and not where the devs show the players the finger.

[Raï 𓆣]

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

Originally posted by spamfilter32:

So the setting is today.

But is not for everyone. Some people like to strive for hope and not like "no matter what you do, you will lose anyway". It is more than just depressing. Most people like progression with an outcome that rewards the player and not where the devs show the players the finger.

But what if that were the story the devs and writers wanted to convey? I don't think everything should be in service of the consumer when it comes down to writing a story. Wouldn't play cyberpunk though, because they've mistreated their employees. So the story is moot anyway...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

It's a theory.

We need to play BG3 to find out!

[trippint82]

It would be cooler if it was but somehow I highly doubt it....cause somehow they are gonna try to tie this in with the dead 3 so idk. The Adversary pitch would have worked tho but it probably would have been better as a Planescape setting or Torment 2. Also we know BG3 has 3 acts and we have most of act one....2 is rumored to mostly deal with the city of Baldur's Gate and the 3rd act is up in the air. I don't think this game is big enough to deal with something that grand as the Adversary Legend. Also we know the max level is 12 so probably nothing too op.

But I got another wacked out theory....that I would prob use in a homebrew.

If I was doing a module like the one you mentioned I think I would make Minsc a lost child of Athas and the reason why he has a space hamster is cause they got him out of that place. Yeah that would make Minsc not a human at all but a MUL....which would beef up his stats and abilities somewhat. Also would be a great way to add some Dark Sun into a TT session.

All I'm saying is that an Adversary storyline would span multiple crystal spheres/adventure module settings. Almost D&D Chrono Trigger.....

I don't think the scope of this game is on that level its mostly gonna be forgotten realms and somehow tie in with the other games supposedly.