About Jergal and his 3 buddies.

[Grumpy]

For the lore connoisseurs.

I know the big 3 made a pact with Jergal but do we know the content of it?

What does Jergal gain from giving the big 3 their divine status ?

[Toaster Maximus]

Nguyên văn bởi Gracey Face:

Nguyên văn bởi Grumpy:

Of course there's an over god.... but does he have workshippers then? Are the different planes aware of him ?

No, he specifically is too detached from anything other than divine matters that while he does have worshippers, none of them ever get any powers like worshippers of the other deities do. Also no one is directly aware of him (to the point where there are factions that deny his existence) but the other gods all claim he exists and are adamant about it so he almost certainly does.

The times of trouble made them all keenly aware of how powerufl he is, the goids all know he is real and has big paddle, even though Cyric still did dumb crap but the other god brought him to heel in the end, now why AO keeps letting him be a god is another matter.

[Grumpy]

Nguyên văn bởi GrandMajora:

Nguyên văn bởi Grumpy:

Of course there's an over god.... but does he have workshippers then? Are the different planes aware of him ?

Ao has worshipers, but he does not grant them any divine spells. Ao has absolutely zero interest in the affairs of mortals. His job is making sure that the gods continue to do their jobs and abide by the portfolios in which they rule over.

The only times Ao has ever manifested himself, it was because the gods were trying to neglect their duties and overstep their boundaries. Ao showed up to give them a good slap and set them straight again. But beyond that, he's a rather hands off kind of figure who is only referenced in passing conversation.

And the dead Three are doing their job correctly ? Wait if there're gods like Shar and others it makes sense.

So does that mean that Ao sent Jergal to regulate the Absolute stuff against the Dead Three? But we as players happened to found him in his temple (i think that's the way the game intended your first meeting with him) so is destiny regulated by AO ?

[GrandMajora]

Nguyên văn bởi Grumpy:

And the dead Three are doing their job correctly ? Wait if there're gods like Shar and others it makes sense.

So does that mean that Ao sent Jergal to regulate the Absolute stuff against the Dead Three? But we as players happened to found him in his temple (i think that's the way the game intended your first meeting with him) so is destiny regulated by AO ?

The Time of Troubles was caused by the dead three trying to steal the tablets of fate, which had the portfolios and roles of all the gods written down on it. Ao showed up and declared that until the tablets were returned to him, the gods would be forced to walk the world as mortals. So he kicked everyone out and left Helm to guard the door.

---------------------

As of the state of 5th edition, the Dead Three are not true deities anymore.

Ao passed a new law which forbids the gods from directly interfering with the world of mortals, and the three of them did not respond well to this. Each of them abandoned their thrones and became quasi-deities. Still extremely powerful beings, but not beholden to Ao's restrictions.

[Gracey Face]

Nguyên văn bởi Grumpy:

So is destiny regulated by AO ?

Kind of. Ao is described as wanting to allow mortals to do whatever they are going to do with the gods interfering as little as possible, but at the same time also sets a lot of rules that allow the gods to intervene to manipulate how mortals will act.

Realistically speaking Ao is more of a plot device when a writer or DM cannot think of a cleaner way to resolve a divine problem than an actual fleshed out character.

[Grumpy]

Nguyên văn bởi Gracey Face:

Nguyên văn bởi Grumpy:

So is destiny regulated by AO ?

Kind of. Ao is described as wanting to allow mortals to do whatever they are going to do with the gods interfering as little as possible, but at the same time also sets a lot of rules that allow the gods to intervene to manipulate how mortals will act.

Realistically speaking Ao is more of a plot device when a writer or DM cannot think of a cleaner way to resolve a divine problem than an actual fleshed out character.

A way to do Deus ex machina of some sort.

Nguyên văn bởi GrandMajora:

Time of Troubles was caused by the dead three trying to steal the tablets of fate, which had the portfolios and roles of all the gods written down on it. Ao showed up and declared that until the tablets were returned to him, the gods would be forced to walk the world as mortals. So he kicked everyone out and left Helm to guard the door.

That's neat, would have love to play a game setting like that, where you can meet the deities not a full power.

[Xanikk]

Is Ao considered true neutral? He doesn't seem to mind evil gods existing and has no preference for any type of god.

[Narky]

Nguyên văn bởi Xanikk:

Is Ao considered true neutral? He doesn't seem to mind evil gods existing and has no preference for any type of god.

He's as True Neutral as they can get.

[Toaster Maximus]

Nguyên văn bởi Black Magic:

Nguyên văn bởi Xanikk:

Is Ao considered true neutral? He doesn't seem to mind evil gods existing and has no preference for any type of god.

He's as True Neutral as they can get.

Do what you want, don't break the rules and don't touch his stuff so yeah

[Banelord]

Nguyên văn bởi Grumpy:

For the lore connoisseurs.

I know the big 3 made a pact with Jergal but do we know the content of it?

What does Jergal gain from giving the big 3 their divine status ?

in the ancient past of the Forgotten Realms, long before the current era of the setting, Jergal, as the Lord of the End of Everything, became disillusioned with his role as a deity overseeing death. He felt burdened by the responsibilities and wanted to be free of the endless duties associated with death and the afterlife. Seeing an opportunity, Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, who were ambitious mortals at the time, approached Jergal with a proposition. They offered to take over his portfolio and responsibilities in exchange for power and godhood.

As Bane is one of my favorite evil deities in the pantheon, I made a series of AI generated images trying to capture the moment Bane seized the pantheon of Strife, Hatred and Tyranny from this old fart, thus becoming a prominent greater deity in the Realms:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3047920066

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3047921415

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3047922233

Bane was not consistently and precisely depicted in the lore back when he was a mortal, , but according to what I have gathered, he was a powerful man from Chult, that is to be a Black man, who prefered unarmed melee or using only his signature dark armored gauntlet, which later became his symbol and a war cry. I created an AI assisted art of it, combining multiple programs and APIs, trying to capture the essence of the deitys symbolism, so here goes:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3048883259

So anyway, Jergal obviously agreed to their proposal and willingly transferred his portfolio to the trio.

In return, he retained a role as a subservient deity, serving the new gods of death.

This act led to the rise of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul as the gods of tyranny, murder, and death, respectively as said before. It also marked the beginning of the ascent of the Dead Three as powerful deities in the pantheon of the Forgotten Realms.

So, Jergal's decision to relinquish his portfolio was indeed a willing choice, driven by his desire to be free from the burdens of his divine duties and to pass them on to ambitious mortals who sought godhood.

[Tingly]

Every indication I've seen about it is that Jergal was bored, being one of the most ancient gods and with the implication that his domain of fate gives him some amount of insight into what's going to happen and making him disinterested. He just didn't care about holding onto his power.

[Lamp]

I do enjoy that they've basically tied up BG as a trilogy ending with Jergal, and he's like "well that didn't go great," about the dead three. Probably has a few regrets about it now :P

[Banelord]

Nguyên văn bởi Tingly:

Every indication I've seen about it is that Jergal was bored, being one of the most ancient gods and with the implication that his domain of fate gives him some amount of insight into what's going to happen and making him disinterested. He just didn't care about holding onto his power.

Yes it was apparently so, yet I hope the transfer involved a dose of pain for the fart, just for saiyng "away with thee, vermin!" at the end of BG3, in one of the possible endings if player chose a good ending, not realizing in his butthurtery that BAne can never be ended, and only would grow stronger - as long as there are tribalisms, wars, unculled ambitions, and strife.

Anyway, Bane would not illithid all Baldursgatians, he would make them obey and serve his Chosen. As ceramprphosis absolutely takes away a mortals soul forever, thus stealing it from the deity.

As for Myrkul, he is boring. Bhaal is irational murder hobo and overused in previous BG intsallment, thus not really interesting. Cyric, who flashed herer and there during Tiem of troubles, is an imposter and a nobody.

[Nevron]

Nguyên văn bởi Gracey Face:

Nguyên văn bởi Grumpy:

Alright retirement plan gone wrong it seems.

But what is the higher power he spoke about? "so he has spoken"

AO. He is the god of gods. He does not interact with anyone other than gods at all (though that might have changed) and he sets the cosmic rules by which all of the other gods have to abide.

There is someone even higher than Ao.

[Banelord]

Nguyên văn bởi Nevron:

Nguyên văn bởi Gracey Face:

AO. He is the god of gods. He does not interact with anyone other than gods at all (though that might have changed) and he sets the cosmic rules by which all of the other gods have to abide.

There is someone even higher than Ao.

yes, a DM. "Ao" , what a weird and dumb-ish name, is meant as an AI helper to the DM.

Every planet in dnd multiverse has its pantheon and its "ao". I consider him a glorified janitor without essence, spirit and identity.

[Banelord]

Nguyên văn bởi Black Magic:

Quite literally he was bored, he wanted to retire (which he got) and move into a godtryside lakehouse. That's the lowdown of it. But he can't help himself when agents of Chaos threaten the balance of the mortal plane, so he steps in. He hates chaos.

Unfortunately the Dead Three were not the Gods he'd hoped.

Jergal is portrayed as a neutral or neutral-aligned deity, kinda more of an impersonal deity who fulfills a necessary function in the cosmology of the Forgotten Realms. Thus, due to all of previosuly said, pretty much like "ao", he is a janitor with no flavor, boring and irrelevant, except he does have an ego, and comes off as butthurt in the end.

I am glad that Bane took a part of his powers.